Government should put a cap on auto worker wages !!

[Durry]

Honestly though, I have absolutely no issue with their wages. if they can earn 1,000.00 per hour, so much the better. My issue specifically has to do with the fact that I am blackmailed with my own tax money. The government takes my money (which I have no problem with if it will be spent responsibly), gives it to a car manufacturer (not exactly an essential service now is it), and let's me decide if I want to get that money back by buying one of their subsidized cars of forfeit my investment by not buying it.

Now some have argued that GM has paid the money back. Yes, but it still doesn't change the fact that it might not have been, not to mention that we still lost interest on the money in the interim.

Yes, exactly my point. Maybe you explain it better than me. If they make a 1,000.00 per hr, so be it, but dont come running to me, the taxpayer, to help you out afterwards, either the wager earner or company, you guys made your beds, sleep and die in them together.

The only other point is that I dont like the government penalizing me with a import tax if I chose to buy from another country. If it meets the laws and standards,,,,get out of my way !!!

. Maybe you should move away from your current home and move to where I live. We seem to be freer here.

You cant be very free if your under water every spring,,,,,,,,using up my tax money ^^!!

 

[Machjo]

The only other point is that I dont like the government penalizing me with a import tax if I chose to buy from another country. If it meets the laws and standards,,,,get out of my way !!!

Agreed. About the only kind of 'protectionist' tariff or quotat that I can accept might be some kind of cap and trade. Push the cost of gas up and let the market decide. Antrually we'll gravitate to more local products that way, but if the foreign product is still of such high quality that you're prepared to pay the transportation cost, then I'd say you should be allowed to have it.

 

[captain morgan]

The part you seem to have missed is that the companies negotiated these rules and pay scales with the unions. They can negotiate new ones, too.

GM negotiated a bad deal, by in this case they lived up to it. The problem is that when it comes time to renegotiate, the union has the ability to hold-out via strike and the prov/fed gvts back them by legislation that does bot allow GM to replace those workers from the local market.

GM is now hostage for possibly a lengthy period of time with zero ability to operate their business.

So what? You don't get to negotiate with your doctor individually or with your lawyer individually.

I can negotiate with a lawyer, broker or a Doc that is outside the public system.... It happens everyday.

That's right and labour is nothing more than a resource companies need.

And hence, the cost of that resource in Canada is one of the primary factors that is driving mfg into nations like China.

 

[TenPenny]

GM negotiated a bad deal, by in this case they lived up to it. The problem is that when it comes time to renegotiate, the union has the ability to hold-out via strike and the prov/fed gvts back them by legislation that does bot allow GM to replace those workers from the local market.

GM is now hostage for possibly a lengthy period of time with zero ability to operate their business.

Has the government ever made it illegal for GM to hire replacement workers during a strike?

 

[captain morgan]

Has the government ever made it illegal for GM to hire replacement workers during a strike?

The gvt has incorporated numerous elements that effectively stall the process to the point that the company would suffer egregious damages of not being able to operate and generate revenues.

Think back to those examples where it was management that were the only ones allowed on site and were able to operate the facilities... That was a kinda loophole in that they were already employees prior to a strike and were therefore not considered replacements.

 

[Cannuck]

You cant be very free if your under water every spring,,,,,,,,using up my tax money ^^!!

Under water every spring? I live in desert country. I don't even have seepage in my basement during wet years. But hell, send me some of your tax dollars anyway.

And hence, the cost of that resource in Canada is one of the primary factors that is driving mfg into nations like China.

You get no argument from me. My point is that it isn't the fault of unions.

BTW, try and negotiate with a dentist for your next tooth extraction and see how well you do. My guess is (if you even have your own teeth) probably not very good.

 

[captain morgan]

You get no argument from me. My point is that it isn't the fault of unions.

Well, the circumstance that we are speaking of is directly linked to the unions; you can interpret it in a variety of ways.

BTW, try and negotiate with a dentist for your next tooth extraction and see how well you do. My guess is (if you even have your own teeth) probably not very good.

... But I can negotiate with my dentist and in the event that we don't reach an agreement, that dentist can not prevent me from going across the street and seeking the services of a different service provider.

 

[Cannuck]

Well, the circumstance that we are speaking of is directly linked to the unions; you can interpret it in a variety of ways.

We? What circumstances are "we" speaking of?

 

[captain morgan]

The notion that labour, as a resource, is actively being outsourced to places like China

 

[Cannuck]

... But I can negotiate with my dentist and in the event that we don't reach an agreement, that dentist can not prevent me from going across the street and seeking the services of a different service provider.

And GM can negotiate with their workers and in the event that they don't reach an agreement, the union can not prevent GM from going across the street and seeking the services of a different service provider. That is exactly what GM has done by moving plants to the developing world.

 

[GreenFish66]

Should Government put a Cap on Auto Worker Wages?....

Always is a Cap..

Is Pyramid Trickle Down Economics..

Cap. as in Capitalist..

If Democracy worked as it should ..
We wouldn't need Unions.
Although Unions nowadays, have past their usefullness.( Useless/Helpless?)
----------
With Strings attached and Red Tape Looping throughout the holes and wrapped around, is what holds the Union agreement/Hand Book Together..
----------
After all , Unions work for the Company that Employs them.(and Not so Hard either, from what I hear)

Stalling not Spurring Progress/Competition ..

___________________________________________

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

Are you referring to codetermination laws:

Co-determination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Though there are variations on codetermination, perhaps the German model would be a good one to go by:

Codetermination in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
​

Not bad Macho..
-----------------------

What?..You mean there's laws that Dictate Fair/Living wages?..like $12-14 an hour?....

What about, Including A Fair Wage Pyramid/A Visible,Transparent Wage Spectrum/ Wage Percentage Ratio....Showing what everyone Earns/Makes, why, and how they got there .....From Top to Bottom, Bottom to Top Earner ? ( Including Education, Acheivements and Disciplinary actions..)

Transparency and Accountability ....

Democracy ..Includes Everyone who wishes to be included..Ever More so nowadays , given Moore's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
--------------------

Both " They " and " US" ..
1 and All ..
Together as 1 whole( not in the hole)

As for The Rest ....
Nothing !
- Are Zombie Slave Drones...-

 

[Cannuck]

The notion that labour, as a resource, is actively being outsourced to places like China

That is not related to unions. It is related to the ease that capital moves and the differing standards of living and required incomes. If every union shop closed tomorrow, Nike would still manufacture products in Viet Nam. North America would not suddenly become an attractive place to build a shoe factory.

 

[captain morgan]

And GM can negotiate with their workers and in the event that they don't reach an agreement, the union can not prevent GM from going across the street and seeking the services of a different service provider. That is exactly what GM has done by moving plants to the developing world.

Ya, it just may take months of forced mediation after the mandatory negotiation period, assuming that the union doesn't assert that the corp was engoiating in bad faith which means in inquiry... All the while, the debt clock is ticking, the shares are taking a sh*t kicking and GM isn't earning revenues.

Really equitable system.

As far as GM outsourcing their operations, there is nothing binding them to operate exclusively in North America. The decision to move elsewhere is impacted by a number of variables, but chief among them is the cost and quality of the labour resource from one location to another.

Face it, if there was only a marginal or arguable minor difference in those costs vs quality, you would see fewer instances of corps moving offshore.

That is not related to unions. It is related to the ease that capital moves and the differing standards of living and required incomes. If every union shop closed tomorrow, Nike would still manufacture products in Viet Nam. North America would not suddenly become an attractive place to build a shoe factory.

It is partially related

 

[Cannuck]

Really equitable system.

I'm glad you are coming around. The "system" has meant good money for GM and it's employees for years. I'm really surprised some people have a problem with that. Do you think it's just petty jealousy?

 

[GreenFish66]

Ah ... Government Work order Says back to work, Zombie Slave Drones...Raises for the Union Reps..Boss Says, Hire more Contract Workers.( Sarcastic Cynicism - The Worst Kinda Humour)

 

[captain morgan]

I'm glad you are coming around. The "system" has meant good money for GM and it's employees for years. I'm really surprised some people have a problem with that. Do you think it's just petty jealousy?

A balanced "system" would have meant even better opportunities for both the corporate body as well as the labour force.... But then again, if you believe that the status quo is preferred, you might think about talking to the (former) union members that worked for Canadian Airlines International, they might disagree with your ideology.

 

[Corduroy]

Maximum wage? Great way to improve income inequality. You don't strike me as a socialist, Durry.

 

[petros]

Has a union ever invested into an industry during hard times to help keep a business or an industry it's self alive?

 

[DaSleeper]

Has a union ever invested into an industry during hard times to help keep a business or an industry it's self alive?

Yes...........

Plan for paper mill purchase moves forward in Kapuskasing. - Free Online Library

 

[TenPenny]

Has a union ever invested into an industry during hard times to help keep a business or an industry it's self alive?

Yes, many times in the Pulp and Paper business.

And if you look at GM, the union owns quite a bit of it now.