Good on California

[coldstream]

One of the great delusions of the terms 'free' or 'equal' is that they will not reduced to inconsequence and nonsense if they are not placed in the context of a responsibility to a higher and integrated moral order. In the West, that is Christian morality, which is the foundation of our civilization.

If you reduce thse terms to promoting competing points of reference in an amoral and chaotic universe, where only individual rights rule, then you will reduce morality to a 'law of the jungle mentality' of competing interests and power. That seems to happening now, when any absurdity can be declared equal in moral content, to any other, without reference to reason, purpose, tradition.

That seems to be happening in our civilization, and has an eery resemblance to the Oswald Spengler's premonition of a fragmenting civilization, cut free from in founding inspirations, and spinning wildly in space, dissipating its civilizing energy.

Much of what we have seen in our culture and in our economy now is a result of the loss of that sense of confidence in our origins and in a divine, absolute order.

 

[Praxius]

One of the great delusions of the terms 'free' or 'equal' is that they will not reduced to inconsequence and nonsense if they are not placed in the context of a responsibility to a higher and integrated moral order. In the West, that is Christian morality, which is the foundation of our civilization.

Wrong.... I am a part of this civilization, my involvement, my beliefs and my actions are just as much a part of the foundation of this civilization as anybody else, including yourself. Christians are not the creators of Moral Order.... the Americas were originally occupied by Natives who didn't follow Christianity..... and while many chrisitians came to this land to live, and while many christians attempted to force their religion and morals onto those who didn't believe (such as right now) there has and will be plenty who are not christian who will come here and live their lives in equal fashion...... and they have every right to live their lives as they see fit without your or anybody else's interference.

You say the west is a christian civilization, therefore christian morals should apply in order to substain this civilization.... what about the Middle East and their civilization? Are they allowed to follow their beliefs as they please and you're just fine with that? Why? Isn't Christianity the only way?

And in regards to a Christian Civilization being maintains..... what if I and many others no longer want a christian civilization and wish to progress further beyond that?

We don't have that right?

If you reduce thse terms to promoting competing points of reference in an amoral and chaotic universe, where only individual rights rule, then you will reduce morality to a 'law of the jungle mentality' of competing interests and power. That seems to happening now, when any absurdity can be declared equal in moral content, to any other, without reference to reason, purpose, tradition.

That seems to be happening in our civilization, and has an eery resemblance to the Oswald Spengler's premonition of a fragmenting civilization, cut free from in founding inspirations, and spinning wildly in space, dissipating its civilizing energy.

Much of what we have seen in our culture and in our economy now is a result of the loss of that sense of confidence in our origins and in a divine, absolute order.

There hasn't been any divine/absolute order on this planet for at least 2000+ years.... everything that has occured on this planet since then, to today, and in the future has all been at the hands of nature and humanity's actions..... nothing more. Everything that has happened thus far in our history has been by our hands, no one else's..... humans made the bible, humans created civilizations, humans created education, knowlege, our abilities to fly, go into space..... we have expanded our minds beyond what we are told and began to seek answers to what makes sense to us in the best fashion..... not by what is the simplest answer given.

The christian rules and morals were created for a more simplistic culture, who feared the unknown and yet wanted answers to those unknowns. Answers were given and limited by "Because God Made it That Way" or "Because God Says So" and so on.... that was good enough for a while.

The only reason why the Christian Culture expanded and grew so much is because it was forced apon millions around the world....... just as it's being done right now. I sure as hell don't want to be a part of a society like that.

 

[talloola]

According to newscast, the marriages which took place during the 'OK for gays to marry', time,
will hold up. They can't take that away, so those couples will be legally married as long as they
have the papers to prove it, with the right dates etc.

You so-called, fundamentalist or 'whatever' christians can believe and practice what ever you want, but you can't infringe on others
rights and desires, you have no power, except for your mouths, with the narrow minded
judgemental approach, trying to control and judge others, that is not right, whatever your
religion believes is 'your' business, so keep it that way.
Our country is made up of many many different view points, and our government is not run
by the christians, or any other religion.

 

[Nuggler]

Quoting Taloola "".
""Our country is made up of many many different view points, and our government is not run
by the christians, or any other religion.""

Well said, Taloola. Let's hope it stays that way.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

California voters approve gay-marriage ban

By LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writer Lisa Leff, Associated Press Writer – Wed Nov 5, 4:20 pm ET

AFP/Getty Images/File – Supporters of Proposition 8 rally during in Los Angeles, October 2008. A ban on gay marriages in California …
LOS ANGELES – Voters put a stop to same-sex marriage in California, dealing a crushing defeat to gay-rights activists in a state they hoped would be a vanguard and putting in doubt as many as 18,000 same-sex marriages conducted since a court ruling made them legal this year.
The gay-rights movement had a rough election elsewhere as well Tuesday. Amendments to ban gay marriage were approved in Arizona and Florida, and Arkansas voters approved a measure banning unmarried couples from serving as adoptive or foster parents. Supporters made clear that gays and lesbians were their main target.
But California, the nation's most populous state, had been the big prize. Spending for and against Proposition 8 reached $74 million, the most expensive social-issues campaign in U.S. history and the most expensive campaign this year outside the race for the White House. Activists on both sides of the issue saw the measure as critical to building momentum for their causes.
"People believe in the institution of marriage," Frank Schubert, co-manager of the Yes on 8 campaign, said after declaring victory early Wednesday. "It's one institution that crosses ethnic divides, that crosses partisan divides. ... People have stood up because they care about marriage and they care a great deal."
With almost all precincts reporting, election returns showed the measure winning with 52 percent of the vote. An estimated 2 million to 3 million provisional and absentee ballots remained to be tallied, but based on trends and the locations of the votes still outstanding, the margin of support in favor of the initiative was secure.
Leaders of the No on 8 campaign said they were not ready to concede.
"Because Prop 8 involves the sensitive matter of individual rights, we believe it is important to wait until we receive further information about the outcome," Geoff Kors, director of Equality California, said in a statement Wednesday.
Exit polls for The Associated Press found that Proposition 8 received critical support from black voters who flocked to the polls to support Barack Obama for president. About seven in 10 blacks voted in favor of the ban, while Latinos also supported it and whites were split.
Californians overwhelmingly passed a ban on same-sex marriage in 2000, but gay-rights supporters had hoped public opinion on the issue had shifted enough for this year's measure to be rejected.

Bloody poofters hey Walt.....:roll:

 

[Risus]

Well I guess something good happened on Tuesday...

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Well I guess something good happened on Tuesday...

Like what?

 

[Risus]

Like what?

duh, like the gay marrage ban getting approved.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

duh, like the gay marrage ban getting approved.

If you need an organ transplant which I hope in real life you would not need such a thing, but in case you did and you realized that the only one organ to save your life was that of a gay man dieing, would you except a gay mans organ, in an effort to get an extra chance to live.. Would you?

 

[Risus]

If you need an organ transplant which I hope in real life you would not need such a thing, but in case you did and you realized that the only one organ to save your life was that of a gay man dieing, would you except a gay mans organ, in an effort to get an extra chance to live.. Would you?

What the hell does organ transplants have to do with banning gay marrages?????

 

[Socrates the Greek]

What the hell does organ transplants have to do with banning gay marrages?????

Just looking for a gage on homosexual bias
....

 

[Ron in Regina]

This "Proposition 8" is an absolute crock-o-sh*t and a huge step backwards for peoples rights
and liberties. I find it ironic that this "Proposition 8" took place in a Democrat run state and on
the day following the election of a Democrat President.

Today it's "Proposition 8." What happens tomorrow? Are women voters morally correct in
the eye of the Christian value system? Is it right that anyone should be praying to a non-Christian
God? What where they thinking? This sounds like a law that would be passed in Saudi Arabia
and not the United States of America. So who's the next target for Christian morality??? What
other minority deserves to be focused on next?

 

[Socrates the Greek]

This "Proposition 8" is an absolute crock-o-sh*t and a huge step backwards for peoples rights
and liberties. I find it ironic that this "Proposition 8" took place in a Democrat run state and on
the day following the election of a Democrat President.

Today it's "Proposition 8." What happens tomorrow? Are women voters morally correct in
the eye of the Christian value system? Is it right that anyone should be praying to a non-Christian
God? What where they thinking? This sounds like a law that would be passed in Saudi Arabia
and not the United States of America. So who's the next target for Christian morality??? What
other minority deserves to be focused on next?

Good day Ron great points....

 

[Ron in Regina]

Good day Ron great points....

Thank You Soc....and a Good Day to you also Sir.

 

[shadowshiv]

This "Proposition 8" is an absolute crock-o-sh*t and a huge step backwards for peoples rights
and liberties. I find it ironic that this "Proposition 8" took place in a Democrat run state and on
the day following the election of a Democrat President.

Today it's "Proposition 8." What happens tomorrow? Are women voters morally correct in
the eye of the Christian value system? Is it right that anyone should be praying to a non-Christian
God? What where they thinking? This sounds like a law that would be passed in Saudi Arabia
and not the United States of America. So who's the next target for Christian morality??? What
other minority deserves to be focused on next?

What boggles my mind is that church and state are supposed to be two separate entities. Whatever happened to that being the case?

 

[Avro]

The ultimate in con hypocrisy.:roll:

Smaller government.....oh but I think we should be allowed tell people who they can love and marry.

Cons are a bunch of jerk offs sometimes.:jerk:

 

[Ron in Regina]

The ultimate in con hypocrisy.:roll:

Smaller government.....oh but I think we should be allowed tell people who they can love and marry.

Cons are a bunch of jerk offs sometimes.:jerk:

Avro....exactly what does this have to do with the Boogey-Man "Con's" in your opinion? Just
curious as, the last I heard Arnold Schwarzenegger (Democrat Governor of California) and
California's Legislature (also Democrat's) where in a country with a Democrat President. What
"Con's" are you reffering to this time as in the ultimate in "Con" hypocrisy?

There's some hypocrisy going on....and you've picked the wrong target ths time.

 

[shadowshiv]

Avro....exactly what does this have to do with the Boogey-Man "Con's" in your opinion? Just
curious as, the last I heard Arnold Schwarzenegger (Democrat Governor of California) and
California's Legislature (also Democrat's) where in a country with a Democrat President. What
"Con's" are you reffering to this time as in the ultimate in "Con" hypocrisy?

There's some hypocrisy going on....and you've picked the wrong target ths time.

I may be wrong, but didn't Schwarzenegger approve same-sex marriage?:?:

 

[Avro]

Avro....exactly what does this have to do with the Boogey-Man "Con's" in your opinion? Just
curious as, the last I heard Arnold Schwarzenegger (Democrat Governor of California) and
California's Legislature (also Democrat's) where in a country with a Democrat President. What
"Con's" are you reffering to this time as in the ultimate in "Con" hypocrisy?

There's some hypocrisy going on....and you've picked the wrong target ths time.

The ones on this web site and those who are generaly against it.

Cons that are for it are not hypocrites.

 

[Avro]

I may be wrong, but didn't Schwarzenegger approve same-sex marriage?:?:

Yep, Maria got her way on that one.