GM annouces new cuts

[lone wolf]

GM is not moving from Oshawa, they are only closing one of their plants. If I am not mistaken, it will be retooled later for a hybrid vehicle.

Some of it is politics, Hargrove's time is about up with UAW. If the company can get the membership to lose faith, there's one more brick in the union-busting wall. My guess is you'll see the option of work by contract or watch production head off to Mexico.

 

[dancing-loon]

I wonder when Toyota in Cambridge, or Honda in Alliston will be announcing layoffs; last I heard they were both expanding. Bloody non-union companies.

Walter,...
I live in the area and have heard firsthand that they pay well and everybody would give his front tooth to get a job there!!!
Honda and Toyota produce quality cars, nothing like this "North-American piece of sh*t"... {fill in your favorite unionized brand). Exactly that classy expression I have heard from Honda drivers!:lol:

 

[Risus]

Some of it is politics, Hargrove's time is about up with UAW. If the company can get the membership to lose faith, there's one more brick in the union-busting wall. My guess is you'll see the option of work by contract or watch production head off to Mexico.

Hargrove and his half assed union are the majority of the problem with the auto sector in Canada. I think he is just a joke, with his hollow threats. His union members are even tired of him.

 

[Starscream]

Thanks scratch, I think I'll like it alot here.

I'm watching CTV newsnet right now and they had a segment about the CAWs blockade of the GM headquarters in Oshawa. One union guy said to a man driving a BMW: "Get a GM vehicle and then we'll talk." The BMW driver was forced to turn around while being booed and bad mouthed. What a load of crap from the CAW. Oh what, the guy buys a vehicle that won't break down or crap out and you insult him and refuse him entry to his job for it!? I owned so far a total of 3 cars in my life: 1989 Toyota Supra Turbo, 1998 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Z34, and 2007 Ford Mustang GT (currently own).

Out of the three the Monte Carlo had the worst quality. I bought the Monte Carlo in May of 2007 and it included all the maintenance records, and I mean ALL the records. It was always dealership serviced, but holy crap that thing had repairs and parts replaced more than my 1989 Toyota Supra did. The Monte Carlo had only 90 000kms but had the repairs of a car with over 200 000kms. Just to name a few: Gas tank, fuel lines, brake lines, entire front end (CV joints, bushings, upper control arms, ball joints, struts, etc.). Two weeks after I bought the car the AC compressor blew and leaked freon on my parents' driveway. A couple of weeks after that I see puddles under the front end of the car (between the bumper and the engine), I scanned around and saw that the tranny cooling lines were rotted. The paint was starting to bubble one the rear fenders to. Obsviously this thing is a complete lemon, so I sold it in August and bought my brand new Mustang GT.

And these GM workers wonder why people don't buy their vehicles. When a much older and much higher mileage Toyota has far better quality than the much younger and much lower mileage GM car, there's a problem.

Only "major" problems I had with the '89 Toyota was to replace the gas tank and two new ball joints. Thats it. Over 222 000kms when I sold it.

 

[scratch]

Thanks scratch, I think I'll like it alot here.

I'm watching CTV newsnet right now and they had a segment about the CAWs blockade of the GM headquarters in Oshawa. One union guy said to a man driving a BMW: "Get a GM vehicle and then we'll talk." The BMW driver was forced to turn around while being booed and bad mouthed. What a load of crap from the CAW. Oh what, the guy buys a vehicle that won't break down or crap out and you insult him and refuse him entry to his job for it!? I owned so far a total of 3 cars in my life: 1989 Toyota Supra Turbo, 1998 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Z34, and 2007 Ford Mustang GT (currently own).

Out of the three the Monte Carlo had the worst quality. I bought the Monte Carlo in May of 2007 and it included all the maintenance records, and I mean ALL the records. It was always dealership serviced, but holy crap that thing had repairs and parts replaced more than my 1989 Toyota Supra did. The Monte Carlo had only 90 000kms but had the repairs of a car with over 200 000kms. Just to name a few: Gas tank, fuel lines, brake lines, entire front end (CV joints, bushings, upper control arms, ball joints, struts, etc.). Two weeks after I bought the car the AC compressor blew and leaked freon on my parents' driveway. A couple of weeks after that I see puddles under the front end of the car (between the bumper and the engine), I scanned around and saw that the tranny cooling lines were rotted. The paint was starting to bubble one the rear fenders to. Obsviously this thing is a complete lemon, so I sold it in August and bought my brand new Mustang GT.

And these GM workers wonder why people don't buy their vehicles. When a much older and much higher mileage Toyota has far better quality than the much younger and much lower mileage GM car, there's a problem.

Only "major" problems I had with the '89 Toyota was to replace the gas tank and two new ball joints. Thats it. Over 222 000kms when I sold it.

The Big Three will be out of business by 2012.
Nice talking to you Star, take care.
Regards,
scratch
:canada::canada::canada:

 

[Starscream]

Hargrove and his half assed union are the majority of the problem with the auto sector in Canada. I think he is just a joke, with his hollow threats. His union members are even tired of him.

I know that the CAW is costing not only GM more money but also Ford and Chrysler as well. Like health benefits, pensions, etc. But how are they the "major" problem for the auto sector in Canada? I'm not trying to dog you, I'm just curious.

 

[scratch]

I know that the CAW is costing not only GM more money but also Ford and Chrysler as well. Like health benefits, pensions, etc. But how are they the "major" problem for the auto sector in Canada? I'm not trying to dog you, I'm just curious.

Hey Star,
Watch for 2012 & Sept 2008 when the Chinese autos start showing up. Buzz will be beside himself.
Regards,
scratch
:canada:

 

[Starscream]

Well, lets see if the chinese automakers have better quality and reliability than Toyota or Honda. If the chinese makes are just cheap crap like the rest of their exports then it'll be a quick bow out from north america. That would be good news for the "Big Three".

The crash tests in Europe showed that the chinese vehicles folded like accordions. What was the chinese response to this? "Well, we sell our cars to people who drive safely." Yeah, try again Mao.

 

[scratch]

Regardless.

 

[lone wolf]

Well, lets see if the chinese automakers have better quality and reliability than Toyota or Honda. If the chinese makes are just cheap crap like the rest of their exports then it'll be a quick bow out from north america. That would be good news for the "Big Three".

The crash tests in Europe showed that the chinese vehicles folded like accordions. What was the chinese response to this? "Well, we sell our cars to people who drive safely." Yeah, try again Mao.

Does anyone remember when little Korea dumped the throw-away Pony on these shores? Hyundai isn't such "cheap crap" now....

 

[shadowshiv]

GM is not moving from Oshawa, they are only closing one of their plants. If I am not mistaken, it will be retooled later for a hybrid vehicle.

My mistake, then. Sorry about that.:-(

It still is a bad thing to do in light of the fact that they were given in the neighbourhood of $250 million from the government.

 

[#juan]

Does anyone remember when little Korea dumped the throw-away Pony on these shores? Hyundai isn't such "cheap crap" now....

Right Wolf. They learned and the later Ponies were almost unbreakable

 

[MikeyDB]

Much of this issue is a chicken and egg kind of question. Do the employees of GM Ford and Chrysler need thirty dollar an hour pay rates because that's how much it costs to live in Canada or is it simply greed? If there were reasonable healthcare programs available for everyone would the auto manufacturers be burdened with any health-care expenses above that of any other person?

Buzz Hargrove is an idiot. He's the same caliber of human being as the guy who once worked for the tobbacco industry telling everyone that there were no dangers in tobbacco use....who now tells people that global warming is a myth....

Guys like Buzz are a dime a dozen.

I'd encourage all automobile industry workers to head on over to Buzz's house and see how favorable a reception they'll get.....

 

[Starscream]

If the chinese want to stay in the north american auto market then they'll have to learn quick. Quality and reliability goes a long way these days. Too bad the "Big Three" don't seem to understand this.

Hyundai has learned this lesson. That company has been maligned with reliability issues for many years, but now Hyundai's quality and reliability jumped by leaps and bounds and ranks alongside Honda according to Consumer Reports. Lets see if the Chinese can follow sute.

MikeyDB. I don't think the employees pay rates, health benifits, and pensions are solely to blame for the "Big Three's" problems. The quality and reliability of their products play a VERY BIG part of their current misfortunes. Now gas mileage is a big issue for auto sales along side quality and reliability. If anything, it's a combination of both.

 

[MikeyDB]

Starscream

I appologize if I gave you the impression that the pay rates at the big three were the ultimate cause for the declining situation. When we talk about the cost of producing a quality product..(I asked this question a long time ago and no one could provide an answer) how influential in terms of both production costs and quality control is the difference in wage scales between say an American automobile company and a Korean or Japanese company?

Does thirty dollars an hour appear insufficient in terms of establishing and maintaining a level of product quality that can be competative?

 

[Starscream]

MikeyDB

No, you never gave me that impression. Your view of the emplyoees' pay rates, health benefits and pensions costing the "Big Three" a whole lot and that it's part of their current problem is correct in my view. I just mentioned the "quality and reliability" of their products as the other problem they have. You have nothing to apologize for my friend.

The current misfortunes of the "Big Three" have been growing for many, many years. It's just recently that those problems have finaly spilled over.

Do their pay rates of thirty and more dollars and hour mean thats how much it costs to live in this country? No. I make just under twenty an hour and I'm doing just fine. I hear alot of these thirty and over dollars an hour workers complaining about "cost of living" and whatnot. However they neglect to mention the 200-400 thousand houses they buy, the brand new trucks and cars, the brand new boats, ATVs, snowmobiles, jetskies, camps they buy, and the trips they take, just to name a few. All of which they buy on credit and loans. You should see how much debt they have because of that. No sh*t they complain about "cost of living", they put themselves there. No it does not cost over 30$ and hour to live everywhere in this country.

As for the health benefits. No matter what health system we get, the workers will still demand for the company health benefit packages. You think those workers get prescriptions only when they're sick? Or get new glasses and dental work because they need it everytime? Hell no. I know alot of people who get those prescriptions, glasses and dental work not because they need it everytime, but because the company is paying for it all so they (workers) don't give a sh*t how much it costs.

Personaly I don't think wage scales have anything to do with the "quality and reliability" of the vehicles being made. In my opinion, it has to do with the parts used and the competence of the worker.

Hopefully I didn't come on as a jerk toward you with this.

 

[Risus]

I just heard that Toyoto is laying off workers at their truck plant in Texas, so it isn't just confined to the big three...

 

[Starscream]

Risus.

I heard the same thing too. However its just 200 temporary employees that are being laid off. These workers are just "probationary employees" who hope to become permanent staff at some point. The plant will still retain their 2000+ full time workers though, and the plant is not going to close according to Toyota. This is a FAR cray from what the "Big Three" are going through.

 

[lone wolf]

To they who really hold the power, recession is just a perfect excuse for union-busting. Lay-off. Take the workers back on contract or move production offshore and hire goons to keep the union recruiter out.

 

[Starscream]

Its a sure way to thin out the Union. Hiring new workers on contract is a good way to get rid of the riff raff. That way you know your permanent full time staff are damn good people with a good work ethic.