Global Warming is not due to human contribution of Carbon Dioxide

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
However the best results will be achieved in a more positive way from
market forces demanding a better product, thus giving a better reward incentive for business.

The inevitable pissy little bureaucratic fines for this or that is a lot of micro managing
that often never accomplishes its holier than thou objectives.

A lot of these fines and regulations have been incremented over the last 30 years locally
everywhere and I believe we are slowly getting to a better environment in the Western
countries. The old Iron Curtain countries have a lot of catching up to do.

The communist nations have really defecated on their own land.
Moreso than the headlines about ourselves would have you believe.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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the-brights.net
However the best results will be achieved in a more positive way from
market forces demanding a better product, thus giving a better reward incentive for business.
Yeah. Better products usually cost more than lousy products. It's a wallet issue.

The inevitable pissy little bureaucratic fines for this or that is a lot of micro managing
that often never accomplishes its holier than thou objectives.
Jacking the taxes up on petroleum by 2 bits isn't exactly what I'd refer to as pissy little bureaucratic fines. Jacking a fine from £4m ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/255863.stm ) up to say 10million isn't exactly what I'd call pissy little bureaucratic fines. Boy, you sure think small.

A lot of these fines and regulations have been incremented over the last 30 years locally
everywhere and I believe we are slowly getting to a better environment in the Western
countries.
And yet you say that fines "never accomplishes its holier than thou objectives". Well? Do they work or not? make up your minds. :)

The communist nations have really defecated on their own land.
Moreso than the headlines about ourselves would have you believe.
So did we while we were "developing". What is it, about half of the original Everglades is left? What did we do with the other half?
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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There is some justice in global warming, in that the worst offenders like North America, will suffer along with everyone else on the planet.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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California
Tonington

I haven't written this before but everything you write on the topic I read and digest and have copied some of the things you talk about....

You seem to have spent a good deal of time considering the possibilities and weighing the facts against the fiction.....

Keep up your interest and informative statements on this topic please? And Thanks!

L.Gilbert

Like you - I'm still out on the causes and what we as a species in one corner of the world should not get hooked into easy answers....because I think there are none before us at the present time. We can only be responsible for our own contribution or care of our little responsibility...
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Curiosity, thanks for the encouraging words. I like to think that if I can't be as green as I'd like right now(though I think I am doing the best I can for my budget), that I can at least try my best to wade through the mounds of information and hopefully share some of my enlightenment. Nothing is cut and dry to me except the motion that we do need to have a healthy respect for how our actions can reverberate across the world. Kinda like a pebble in a pond. You don't want to make huge waves and scare every one off with ranting diatribes. So I've really been making a concerted effort to minimize my part in that.

The issue is so complex, I think if we could all absorb the science, models, opinions, ideas, institutions, politics, emotion and medium of the entire transmission of these aspects, we can make real progress. People don't need a climate degree, or a politician explaining it; we need lolgic, reasoning and good old fashioned common sense.

It's such a hard line to walk. Keeping objective and knowledgeable without coming off as someone who thinks their $hit doesn't stink, but at the same time feeling an obligation to do my best to help people understand. I've trashed Suzuki for his methods, though on some issues I think his cause is at least noble. A result of my own personal biases, I can support his drive on some issues yet thoroughly be disgusted up by his same drive on matters close to my perverbial heart. It's a horrible quandry sometimes with folks like this.

Anyways, I appreciate the contributions we can all make here. There are some very bright people here and many humble folk. This issue is my passion, it touches so much.

"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed" ~ Carl Jung
 
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Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
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California
Tonington

I am with you - we can only do so much within reason to be "green" as you put it....our culture is currently at war with anything to do with conscious effort to impact as little as possible...and still
enjoy living here.

I especially do enjoy that you do not go off on a rant as do I.... I really don't belong in a discussion
where I personally practice as much as I can in my own insignificant way to protect the environment and share information with my friends who are much more knowledgeable than I and are willing to
teach and patiently watch me struggle with my changes over the years.... It has been a difficult battle for me where I am surrounded by throw-away people and have to silently watch.

If you ever have an opportunity to visit Davis, CA where they are doing some beautiful work concerning pollution and all related sciences and studies.... you would probably fit in like you belonged there....

As I have written in my rants - ecological nurturing has become political when it is the farthest issue from politics as we in the west could be... it is about humanity... finding better and safer ways of living...not doing "without" but learning how to do "with"....and has absolutely nothing to do with some guy stumping a book, or Michael Moore blaspheming K-Mart.... these are shameful things and divide people.... when as I say..... we should all be on the same side....of maintaining a healthy planet.

Anyway - you are appreciated.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
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California
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/01/05/BAG12ND9T01.DTL&type=science



UC DAVIS
Scientists research stretches of global warming, cooling


Fossil studies helped determine sea levels at various times


David Perlman, Chronicle Science Editor
Friday, January 5, 2007


The ancient Earth has seen its global climate come and go -- a few million years of ice-covered cold at times, and long epochs of dry, ice-free warmth at others, all due to the vagaries of nature.
Then there are danger times like today, when after thousands of years of relatively cold temperatures around the globe, planet Earth is warming measurably as greenhouse gases of the industrial age spur an ever-faster rise in worldwide thermometer readings.
A UC Davis scientist and other researchers examining the past for clues to the present are suggesting that global warming and cooling have run in cycles. They've uncovered evidence that some 300 million years ago a long-lasting ice age froze entire continents and then gave way 40 million years ago to a period of global warming that melted all the ice and left the Earth dry, dust-blown and covered only with sparse vegetation.
During those extreme temperature swings, said Isabel P. Montanez, a geochemist and geology professor at UC Davis, came shorter periods of warming and cooling.
It was a highly unstable period of climate change, marked by millions of years when temperatures yo-yoed up and down as the atmosphere's natural levels of carbon dioxide, the major heat-trapping greenhouse gas, rose and fell wildly, says Montanez.
Montanez led a team of researchers that gathered evidence of fluctuations in ancient carbon dioxide levels by analyzing fossil plant leaves and weathered rocks throughout the American Southwest, ice cores in Antarctica, Australian fossils, and coal formations in China.
By recording species changes in long-vanished, shallow-water creatures called brachiopods, the scientists calculated how sea levels rose during warming periods as glaciers and continental ice sheets disappeared.
The team's conclusions are being published today in the journal Science. In an interview Thursday, Montanez said the report is the first well-documented study showing the transformation of a long-lasting ice age into an even longer period of increasing global warmth -- "from icehouse to greenhouse," she called it.
Surface temperatures from the Paleozoic ice age and the warm period that followed left their signs in the varied species of brachiopods, she said. And the advances and retreats of massive glaciers in Australia provided signs in scoured mountainsides that the global warming phenomenon was highly unstable.
The ancient supercontinent of 300 million years ago that left its evidence for the team to study is known as Gondwana, and most of today's Southern Hemisphere continents, from Australia to Africa and South America, were formed when Gondwana broke up.
During the long Paleozoic ice age, vast continental ice sheets were many miles thick on southern Gondwana, while in the far north, the ocean must have been covered with miles upon miles of broad sea ice, Montanez said.
Then carbon dioxide gas, emerging into the atmosphere from minerals and weathered rocks, volcanoes and carbonates in the seas, began to increase sporadically, and what had been a continuously frozen continent began to thaw.
Computer calculations by the team showed that carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere must have swung back and forth between 250 parts per million to 2,000 parts per million, Montanez said.
The world froze again and thawed again as carbon dioxide levels rose and fell until, by about 265 million years ago, the continent warmed and the end came to the "most widespread and long-lived icehouse of the last half-billion years," Montanez and her colleagues wrote in their report. "This global warming event accompanied a permanent transition to an ice-free world," they wrote.
That "permanent" ice-free world, they said, lasted until about 3 million years ago when a new ice age began -- an age that has continued with some fluctuations until the latest warming period began within the past century or two, and has accelerated ever since.
According to Lee R. Kump, professor of geosciences at Pennsylvania State University, the report from Montanez and her colleagues "makes a pretty compelling case" for that long-ago change from an ice-bound world to continuing episodes of hot, dry global climate.
In an interview, Kump noted that although some skeptics have questioned whether carbon dioxide is indeed the major "driver" in any global warming scenario, the evidence is now strong that it is. For the past 400,000 years, he said, atmospheric levels of the gas have ranged naturally from 180 to 280 parts per million, while today's "human perturbed" level has already risen to about 370 parts per million.
"This study," he said of the report in Science, "clearly shows how a period of strong warming came at the end of a long, intensely glacial period -- and we're breaking out of another million-year glacial period again right now." E-mail David Perlman at dperlman@sfchronicle.com.