Give your opinion on the CBC

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Can you think for yourself?

Of course we can that’s why we don't want to pay for the CBC through our taxes.

I appreciate your love of Coronation street, what I can't appreciate is the insistence I pay for it with tax money that could be spent to help the poor, the military healthcare, municipalities or tax cuts.

My Dad watches Coronation St. too.....


If rural areas have problems getting media offering one choice to them doesn't solve the problem, but government broadcast repeaters would.

Toronto says it could solve it’s homelessness problem with 7 billion dollars and I know where I can get 1.5 billion very quickly.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
My goodness Jay your plan shines in it's brilliance. Shut down CBC so you won't have to walk by the unwashed masses, Homeless people. Does your Beloved Party plan on treating the homeless peoples' addictions or are you just going to throw them into run down buildings. With your stance on health care I'm not counting on them getting treatment. Wow what a compassonate Party you beat the band for, drag them off the streets throw them into run down buildings and deny them Health Care.

I get it now if rural areas don't have CBC we won't see how much nicer and cleaner the rest of Canada is, also we won't be informed of lower crime rates in Vacouver bloody brilliant. Never mind Jay the word is out, Torona sucks! I'd rather live in Medicine Hat. Yes of course I will go with out any form of News so you and the rest of Torona can feel like Kings of the Castle, or dung heap.

Dream on, long live CBC. Viva La Revolution.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
:)

I understand your frustration with me....these ideas might seem a bit foreign at first, but to understand them you first must realize our intentions are noble.

I live in London Ontario, raised in the country and I am no stranger to the poor as I come from less then well off parents. I too think Toronto sucks, but for different reasons I think.

The homeless IMO (and others) need to get into the system so they can be treated, that's a fact and when I'm saying Toronto needs 7 billion to meet the end of the needs they have I’m actually pandering to a leftist ideology, so everything isn't black and white in this field. Baby steps I think we could cal it.

Do I want to walk down the street and walk by homeless people that need help? No I don't and I don't know anyone else that does. We can help these people and we can do it right and I know where some of the funding for this serious issue can come from.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,338
70
48
52
Das Kapital
Well Jay, you must come visit my "hood". Homeless, junkies and hookers galore. They all like dogs and are quite friendly. In Ottawa no less! For shame. :D

But seriously, doesn't anyone remember the big hoopla about the cuts CBC were recieving due to overall fed cuts to the arts? CBC survived and hasn't really changed due to sponsorship from elsewhere. What's my point? I guess, like I said, I don't think it would change programming if the fed only funded in order to televise in remote areas. I'm babbling. I know it.
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
Said1 for a babbler you have made the most sense. Funding for only rural/remote areas makes sense. My god girl you are a born negotiator.
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
2,004
0
36
Proud to be in Alberta
1. The CBC does a resoanably good job at most sports, especially NHL hockey. They do CFL football reasonably well, and despite recent criticisms, they do fairly well with curling.

2. Although I too believe the CBC is left wing biased, they do a good job of news reporting and news events. Their message in these events is not good, IMO, as the CBC plays softball with the left wing and hardball with the right wing.

3. Other than this, I can see no reason for the CBC to exist. In this day and age of cable and satellite TV and radio, their mandate about getting to rural Canada and isolated regions is outdated. They also compete with private TV and radio for the same marketshare of commercials, which I do not agree with. If the CBC is to be kept, perhaps a model like PBS in the US should be examined.

All in all, CBC may have had its day, like unions, but have now outgrown their influence and importance. Personally, other than sporting events, I rarely watch CBC, don't listen at all to their radio, and would not really miss it if it went bye bye. Another network would pick up the NHL games, and with satellite, all games are on the air anyway.

Just my thoughts on a Friday afternoon.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,338
70
48
52
Das Kapital
But Sassy, it's ony 8:30? :eek:


@BA:

I think the federal government will probably ease out of funding over time and CBC will have to adapt and compete or die.

Also, it isn't everyone who can afford satelite TV or cable if available in remote areas, they may not want it either. I can't afford it right now, but would go with a satelite if I could. I"m anti-Rogers-bastards-leeches-aahhhhhh-don't-get-me-started-cable.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
#juan said:
A million kids in poverty? I don't believe it

That's because your favorite television station keeps you in the dark, so of course you won't believe it. Here an American will open up your eyes. :wink: http://www.canadiancrc.com/PDFs/04NationalReportCard.pdf

#juan said:
and further more it's none of your business.

On an open forum, everything is my business.

#juan said:
If we have ten million kids in poverty, you have at least ten times that number, probably more.

Quite possibly correct, that still doesn't do anything for your problem, now does it? Or do you feel better just because your "numbers" are less?

#juan said:
Tell us about your wonderful health care system.

We don't have a wonderful health care system, and most certainly neither do you.

#juan said:
Tell us about your ten trillion dollar debt.

Can I also talk about our $54 Trillion in assets?

#juan said:
You are not in a position to give anyone advice on these matters.

I have every right to offer an opinion, but since you mentioned it, how is it your business to talk about OUR debt and health care and it isn't my business to talk about your child poverty? Hmmmm?

#juan said:
You have no idea what the CBC is, or what it does.

I know enough that to defend a public telelvision station that costs $1 billion annually while having child poverty upwards of one million shreeks hypocrisy.

#juan said:
Nor do you know much about BBC

The principal means of funding the BBC is through the television licence. Such a licence is required to operate a broadcast television receiver within the UK. The cost of a television licence is set by the government and enforced by the criminal law but the revenue is collected privately and does not pass through the state before reaching the BBC, and hence it is inaccurate to refer to the BBC as a "state" broadcaster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,338
70
48
52
Das Kapital
I think not said:
#juan said:
A million kids in poverty? I don't believe it

That's because your favorite television station keeps you in the dark, so of course you won't believe it. Here an American will open up your eyes. :wink:

I'm surprised #juan doesn't remember that. I've seen that report and remember ALL media stations talking about it for some time. I can remember listening to commentary and interviews related to the topic on CBC radio in the kitchen, while making snack and stuff. Lots of debate about addressing the problem.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
CBC covers it all:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/economy/poverty-line.html

INDEPTH: ECONOMY
How do we measure poverty?

CBC News Online | Updated Nov. 24, 2004



The Canadian Council on Social Development chose to use the phrase "persistent poverty" in its report on child poverty issued early in November 2002. The rather grim report suggested that childhood poverty was becoming more entrenched in Canadian society.
But, how do we measure poverty? There are conflicting views on this.

Whenever a Canadian news outlet uses Statistics Canada numbers to say a certain percentage of Canadians are "below the poverty line," Statistics Canada makes it clear that its numbers say no such thing.

The agency sends off letters stating that its low-income cut-off (LICO) figures are not a measure of poverty, but of income inequality. Despite this, many media companies and poverty activists use Statistics Canada's LICOs as Canada's "unofficial" poverty line.

The LICO counts the number of Canadians who spend 20 per cent more of their gross income on food, shelter and clothing than the average Canadian. So, if a family spends more than 55 per cent of its gross income on those necessities, it's below the LICO.

About 17 per cent of Canadians are below the low-income cut-off.

Critics of the use of the LICO as a benchmark for poverty say the 55 per cent level is arbitrary and doesn't translate to a state of destitute poverty.

A 2000 National Post editorial put it this way: "Say 54 per cent of a family's income goes to food, shelter and clothing, it still has 46 per cent to spend elsewhere. That's not poverty."

Poverty activists and left-leaning newspapers say they use the LICO because that's the only information available to them.

"If Statistics Canada would supply us with an official poverty figure, we'd be happy to use it," wrote Toronto Star editorial page editor Carol Goar in August 2000.

"LICOs are used by anti-poverty groups because they are readily available and capture their view that poverty is relative," wrote Richard Shillington of Campaign 2000 in 1997.

The November 2002 report on child poverty makes these observations:

Children in families described as "persistently poor" tend not to be as healthy as children in families that are not persistently poor.
Children in poor families do not do as well in school.
Children living in poverty are three times more likely to have a parent suffering from depression.
Some 300,000 children in Canada rely on food banks every month.
Children in poor families are much more likely to become runaways.
Children growing up in poverty are more likely to become foster children.
Between 1984 and 1999, the average net wealth of the top 20 per cent of couples with children increased by 43 per cent. For families at the bottom of the income scale, net wealth fell by more than 51 per cent.
Children living in persistent poverty are twice as likely to live in dysfunctional families, and twice as likely to live with violence.
Children who live in communities with plentiful resources – parks, libraries – score better on tests of physical, emotional, social and intellectual development. In the case of poor children, the opposite is true. A study in Edmonton found that poor children worry more about the safety than about lack of food.
As for measuring poverty, Statistics Canada says there is no internationally, or even nationally, accepted formula or definition of who is poor.

Statistics Canada finds itself in a no-win situation. If they do come up with a way of calculating the number of poor people in Canada –for example, using after-tax incomes – the number will undoubtedly be lower than the number calculated by the LICO. Anyone who uses the new number would be accused of using mathematical trickery to "reduce" the number of poor people in Canada.

Statistics Canada drew criticism from the right for updating the LICO in 2000 to reflect new spending patterns among Canadians. The previous cut-off level of $32,759 for a family of four was raised to $33,356, which put 1.4 per cent more Canadians below the cut-off.

Another feature of the LICO that causes controversy is that it's a relative measure of poverty. That is, as the economy grows and people make more money on average, the LICO moves up with it.

"Using the LICO to measure the poor means poverty can never be eliminated since there will always be a range of incomes in Canada – unless we adopt a Soviet-style command economy," the National Post said in 2000.

Poverty activists argue that it's possible to reduce relative poverty without moving to a completely communist system. "In reality, relative poverty will not be reduced by economic growth unless there is redistribution to the poor," Shillington wrote.

The Organization of Economic Co-operation and Development uses another relative measure of poverty. It takes all of the after-tax incomes in a particular country and finds the income such that half the people in the country make more and half make less. That's the median after-tax income. Anyone who makes less than half of that median income is considered poor. By that measure, Canada's poverty rate in the 1993-1995 period was 10.9 per cent. In the U.S., the rate is 16 per cent, while in Denmark, it's 4.7 per cent. Statistics Canada uses a similar calculation, called the Low Income Measures, which uses pre-tax incomes.

Another way to measure poverty is in absolute terms: how many people make less than what is needed to survive or lead a decent life?

Human Resources and Development Canada is developing such a measurement, called the Market Basket Measure, based on the cost of goods and services needed for people to eat a nutritious diet, buy clothing for work and social occasions, house themselves in their community and pay for other necessary expenditures, such as furniture, public transportation and entertainment. By that measure, most of the country's poverty is in Ontario and British Columbia, where the living costs are highest.

Nipissing University economics professor Christopher Sarlo developed another absolute measure of poverty for the 1992 study "Poverty in Canada." Sarlo defines poverty as lacking the means for the basic necessities of life, such as food, shelter and clothing.

The first version of his Basic Needs Index put the poverty rate at just four per cent. It was criticized for its frugality, though: Sarlo's weekly food budget for an elderly woman was $25. A revised version of the index was released in 2001, including such things as out-of-pocket medical expenses. That study put the poverty rate at eight per cent.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Good morning Said1

My eyes glaze over a little when I hear people rant about a million kids in poverty. Several times I have asked what criteria we use to establish these numbers. I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer. I don't deny that there are children living in poverty. I just don't believe the numbers. Any number is too high.

I have been retired for seven or eight years now and enjoy every minute of it. Last year some reporter wrote an article that listed Canadian salary levels and how people lived at each level. Guess what? According to that reporter, I'm living in poverty. We live in a modest $300,000 dollar house, we just bought a new car, we have booked tickets on a plane to take a holiday in Europe in September but we are poverty stricken. I wrote to that reporter. He didn't answer.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Juan

You just pointed out my reasons for "competitive" information systems.

Television/Radio/Print should be giving the public reality - if there is nobody out there to refute what an organization publishes, they don't have any checks and balances - people have no alternative but to accept what they are given.

That is why I find "onesource" insufficient...and "onesource funded by government" even less than insufficient.

I am sorry about your financial state... :p
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
#juan said:
My eyes glaze over a little when I hear people rant about a million kids in poverty. Several times I have asked what criteria we use to establish these numbers. I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer.

Page 4 of the PDF link I provided (which you obviously didn't bother reading) sets a couple with children at $9,000 a year as being the poverty line. Is that satisfactory enough?

It also has a breakdown for each province.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,338
70
48
52
Das Kapital
Wednesday's Child said:
Juan

You just pointed out my reasons for "competitive" information systems.

Television/Radio/Print should be giving the public reality - if there is nobody out there to refute what an organization publishes, they don't have any checks and balances - people have no alternative but to accept what they are given.

That is why I find "onesource" insufficient...and "onesource funded by government" even less than insufficient.

I am sorry about your financial state... :p

That's why there was lots of debate on the topic. Including CBC television and radio. :p
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,338
70
48
52
Das Kapital
I think not said:
#juan said:
My eyes glaze over a little when I hear people rant about a million kids in poverty. Several times I have asked what criteria we use to establish these numbers. I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer.

Page 4 of the PDF link I provided (which you obviously didn't bother reading) sets a couple with children at $9,000 a year as being the poverty line. Is that satisfactory enough?

It also has a breakdown for each province.

Child poverty is a topic that deserves it's own thread if you feel like starting one.
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
5,468
109
63
Florida, Hurricane Central
I agree with Jaun on this. I think its exaggerated.

But it depends on how you define "poor" doesn't it?

From StatsCan.

Statistics Canada's low-income rate measures the percentage of families below the low-income cutoff (LICO). The LICO is a statistical measure of the income thresholds below which Canadians likely devote a larger share of income than average to the necessities of food, shelter and clothing.

In 2004, about 3.5 million people were in low income. They accounted for 11.2% of all Canadians in 2004, well below the peak of 15.7% in 1996.

Among families, the proportion living in low income after taxes declined to 7.8% in 2004 from 8.5% the year before and a high of 12.1% in 1996. In 2004, 684,000 families were below the LICO. These families faced an average income gap of $7,200, which represents the amount of income they required to bring their income above the cut-off. The average income gap was $7,400 in 1996.

Low-income rates were highest among the 550,000 lone-parent families headed by women in 2004, 36% of whom lived in low income compared with 53% in 1996. This reduction was partly the result of an increase in the number of single mothers with earned income.

The low-income rate among seniors hit an all-time low of 5.6% in 2004, down from 6.8% in 2003.

About 865,000 children under 18 lived in low-income families in 2004, compared with 1.3 million in 1996. The proportion of children in low-income families fell from its peak of 18.6% in 1996 to its current level of about 12.8%.

The low-income rate for children in female lone-parent families was 40.0%, five times the proportion of only 8.1% among children in two-parent families.

Families in only two provinces (Alberta and Ontario) recorded median after-tax income that was higher than the national median. For the first time, Alberta families with two or more people had the highest median after-tax income in 2004. The year before, Alberta and Ontario were in a tie.

Half of all families in Alberta had after-tax income of $61,800 or more, up 4% from 2003. Median after-tax income in New Brunswick also increased 4%, but only to $46,400.

After-tax income was virtually unchanged for families in other provinces. It was lowest among families in Newfoundland and Labrador at $40,700.

Low-income rates among families of two or more people were higher than the national average of 7.8% in three provinces: British Columbia, where the rate was 10.3%; Newfoundland and Labrador where it was 9.2%; and Manitoba, where it was 8.0%.