Gay Rights And The Bible

[AnnaG]

lol I am an affectionate sort. Hugs are awesome.
I wasn't really interested in it till Karrie and Kiwi and I chatted a bit. Les is off fighting wildfires in northern BC. He does that even though he's retired from municipal firefighting. He loves the bush better than buildings anyway. lol Sometimes he supervises crews, sometimes he hops onto a cat and goes off making firebreaks. No doubt when he gets back he will be on this thing and I will be relegated to my laptop. lol Or vice versa. This thing has very few letters on the keys left though. Laptop is almost new.

 

[Liberalman]

He loves the bush

???? a burning sensation

 

[MHz]

Nuts. My husband is of the opinion that religious people have the tendency to assume humans are evil until trained not to be. My sister couldn't help people enough. I love helping people. My daughters love helping people. They all were like that from day one. And we did our best to help them develop that trait further. So I think my husband is right about that tendency in religious people. Obedience does not have to be given home by some tyrant.

Some who claim to be religious are the most cruel of all, Christian history is full of abused committed by the Church, it is still happening today. What does that have to do with anything, you don't have to obey God but you do obey somebody, be it your husband or your parents. When they say no (or whatever) are they tyrants?
Lets assume for a moment that each persons view of God stays just the way it is until something actually happens, like Christ's return. Some will not live to see the end of that day, they will be resurrected some 1,000 years later. Do you think some of them will have changed their mind about who is the boss?
Take another example, the 12 tribes are said to be in blindness about Jesus being the Messiah, prophecy has only 144,000 of them being alive to witness His return, the rest are in the grave. Is He a tyrant because He turns His back on them rather than offering them protection while denying Him proper recognition? Since every last one of them are alive by the end of the first day of His return does that make Him a tyrant? The blindness was a determination caused by the temple leaders killing OT Prophets that were sent to them, how does that make Him a tyrant?
Having the power to follow through on any and all promises does not make somebody a tyrant. Tyrants offer no forgiveness, grace and mercy assure us that when all is said and done mankind is again with God. When your parents laid down rules and followed through on the consequences were they tyrants? Giving you the opportunity to make a free choice takes away any tyrant title you care to try and pin on God.
You don't have to take chastisement from Christ, but it does have consequences.
Heb:12:7:
If ye endure chastening,
God dealeth with you as with sons;
for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb:12:8:
But if ye be without chastisement,
whereof all are partakers,
then are ye bastards,
and not sons.
Heb:12:9:
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us,
and we gave them reverence:
shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits,
and live?

The OT has some passages that might seem to be the work of a very angry God as some places were made barren of inhabitants. Had that not happened you would have whole civilizations of people the size of Goliath roaming around in a tyrant sort of fashion, I doubt you would want that.

Not a big deal to God if a book isn't enough to convince you that He exists, several times in Ge:1 are the words "God said", the action wasn't until the words became reality.

1Co:4:20: For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

Hang onto what you see as inconsistencies, like two conflicting geologies. If the two parents = two family trees is too much to grasp so be it. An answer like this to Dex just bounces off, probably the same for all atheists.

 

[MHz]

The way I see it is that life comes from the feminine, so god must be feminine, but it takes both male and female energy to create life, so, god must be a hermaphrodite. In order to create the universe than, god would have had to have knocked itself up.

Try looking at the Holy Spirit as being God's wife, that is why the consequences of bad-mouthing her caries a consequence worse that bad-mouthing Christ. That is no different in human relationships, even if a man does not entirely love his wife he will fight anybody who bad-mouths her.
Lu:12:10:
And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man,
it shall be forgiven him:
but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Christ was begotten, the universe and everything in it was created by God speaking words and the Holy Spirit did the become real part. Where do you come up with such inaccurate thoughts about God when the way it works was written down in the 1st chapter of the 1st book.

 

[captain morgan]

Here, try reading these:
Paden, William E. (2003). Interpreting the Sacred: Ways of Viewing Religion. Beacon Press.
Stace, Walter T. (1937, Reprinted 1975 by permission of MacMillan Publishing Co. Inc.). The Concept of Morals. New York: The MacMillan Company. chapters on Ethical Relativity and Unity of Morals
Vaux, Laurence (1583, Reprinted by The Chetham Society in 1885). A Catechisme / OR / CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE. Manchester, England: The Chetham Society.

You're funny Anna. Comprehension is no problem for me, neither is critical analysis and clearly, you are no anthropologist.

Again, best of luck in your pretend calling.

BTW - Thanks for the reference list... Google comes in real handy sometimes.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Five pages into this Thread, and I have a question. It's a bit
off topic, but it might bring things back to the topic. Who knows?

If there is a God (& I'm not saying there is or isn't one), I wonder
what his/her opinion would be with respect to organized religion?

For those that don't believe there is a God, assume there is one
for the sake of answering the above question. For those that do
believe there is a God, would she/he approve of organized religion?
I don't really care which religion, but just organized religion in general.

If there is a God who created everything (& that would include all of
the folks who happen to be Gay too, I guess), would he/she have an
issue with prejudice against Gay people being denied any rights
that anybody else has, simply due to their sexual orientation?

I'm not asking about what any religious document says, but what your
heart (& your gut) tells you. What do YOU think and not what anyone
else tells you to think?

 

[JLM]

Five pages into this Thread, and I have a question. It's a bit
off topic, but it might bring things back to the topic. Who knows?

If there is a God (& I'm not saying there is or isn't one), I wonder
what his/her opinion would be with respect to organized religion?

For those that don't believe there is a God, assume there is one
for the sake of answering the above question. For those that do
believe there is a God, would she/he approve of organized religion?
I don't really care which religion, but just organized religion in general.

If there is a God who created everything (& that would include all of
the folks who happen to be Gay too, I guess), would he/she have an
issue with prejudice against Gay people being denied any rights
that anybody else has, simply due to their sexual orientation?

I'm not asking about what any religious document says, but what your
heart (& your gut) tells you. What do YOU think and not what anyone
else tells you to think?

Excellent question Ron and I don't have any answers beyond my own hunches.
I don't think He would pay too much attention to these various denominations headed by people according to their own interpretation.
I'm not sure if God (Mother Nature, the Supreme Power) is actually connected to anything written in the Bible.
When people start denigrating other people in the name of religion that just pisses me right and they've lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned. BUT i DO THINK THERE IS SOMEONE LOOKING AFTER US.

 

[MHz]

Five pages into this Thread, and I have a question. It's a bit
off topic, but it might bring things back to the topic. Who knows?

If there is a God (& I'm not saying there is or isn't one), I wonder
what his/her opinion would be with respect to organized religion?

For those that don't believe there is a God, assume there is one
for the sake of answering the above question. For those that do
believe there is a God, would she/he approve of organized religion?
I don't really care which religion, but just organized religion in general.

If there is a God who created everything (& that would include all of
the folks who happen to be Gay too, I guess), would he/she have an
issue with prejudice against Gay people being denied any rights
that anybody else has, simply due to their sexual orientation?

I'm not asking about what any religious document says, but what your
heart (& your gut) tells you. What do YOU think and not what anyone
else tells you to think?

Why would you not want to read the very verses that tell you how Christ feels about certain subjects. He is more displeased with those who call Him Lord and then does not follow His two Laws.
God is not much different in His view, vain repetitions do not impress Him.

It isn't a matter of sexual orientation, it is an issue of accepting or condoning something that is considered a sin. Is a thief not a thief if her steals only a certain amount or only from certain people? If a murderer only kills once is he still not a murderer? The Bible even calls marriage after divorce is adultery it is not grounds for expulsion from Heaven.

In asking for no actual verses you keep out some actual quotes on how the Bible has to say about sex between two men. For myself I think they make too big a deal about it, it shows how insecure they are. By somehow getting 'society' to accept them then they can also accept themselves. Being unable to reproduce only means their family tree will be a barren tree, extinction is the only possible outcome.

 

[MHz]

I'm not sure if God (Mother Nature, the Supreme Power) is actually connected to anything written in the Bible.

Mother Nature exists because there are 'forces' that can achieve even these things.

Job:38:35:
Canst thou send lightnings,
that they may go,
and say unto thee,
Here we are?

The Earth is even said to be aware if life on her is flourishing or being exhausted.
That is part of their relationship with God, we cannot call lightening nor are we attune to any voices other than our own (air, earth and water).

Ho:4:3:
Therefore shall the land mourn,
and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish,
with the beasts of the field,
and with the fowls of heaven;
yea,
the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.

Mother Nature would be nowhere if the sequence set down in Genesis was not followed. She is a result of that sequence, she is not a cause. She cannot move through a void.

 

[Cliffy]

What is religion? A bunch of insecure people getting together like the Monkey Tribe in Jungle Book running around saying "We all say it is so, therefore it must be true." All religions are the product of a need in some to have "the truth" spelled out for them because they are too lazy to go and seek it themselves. They want it handed to them on a silver platter so they don't have to be distracted from thinking about the next piece of useless crap they are going to purchase.

So they put their faith in some charlatan who fleeces them, becomes rich and decadent, then breaks every law in the religion because he can now buy his way into heaven. "Sheep! People are like sheep!" Religion is the drug of the masses - Mao was right (at least about this). Keep them stupefied and out of the way of the control freaks.

 

[MHz]

How many years were you in that church anyway?

 

[coldstream]

What is religion? A bunch of insecure people getting together like the Monkey Tribe in Jungle Book running around saying "We all say it is so, therefore it must be true." All religions are the product of a need in some to have "the truth" spelled out for them because they are too lazy to go and seek it themselves. They want it handed to them on a silver platter so they don't have to be distracted from thinking about the next piece of useless crap they are going to purchase.

So they put their faith in some charlatan who fleeces them, becomes rich and decadent, then breaks every law in the religion because he can now buy his way into heaven. "Sheep! People are like sheep!" Religion is the drug of the masses - Mao was right (at least about this). Keep them stupefied and out of the way of the control freaks.

You have your own religion Cliffy. It's called Secular Humanism. ..a maudling acceptance of all of the frauds perpertrated by modern culture, the Culture of Death. It's primary characteristics is a commitment to self, a rejection of responsibility to God, or to any objective moral order and natural law.. a radical individualism cloaked in a rationale of moral relativism.

It is as self righteous, puritanical, and persecutorial of 'heresy' as any religion that has ever existed. It is actuated by facile lies. It is manifested in a legitimization and celebration of abortion, decadence, homosexuality.. scourges of life and the human spirit. Where it gains ascedancy, as it has in our civilization, it produces a disintegrating society, riddled with disease, corruption, death.

Your views are not unique, free of dogma, and servitude as you suggest.. they are really most conventional and unquestioning of the ethos of our times.

 

[Cliffy]

You have your own religion Cliffy. It's called Secular Humanism. ..a maudling acceptance of all of the frauds perpertrated by modern culture, the Culture of Death. It's primary characteristics is a commitment to self, a rejection of responsibility to God.. a radical individualism cloaked in a rationale of moral relativism.

It is as self righteous, puritanical, and persecutorial of 'heresy' as any religion that has ever existed. It is actuated by facile lies. It is manifested in a legitimization and celebration of abortion, decadence, homosexuality.. scourges of life and the human spirit. Where is gains ascedancy it produces a disintegrating society, riddled with disease, dorruption, death.

You are not the first self righteous clown to call me a secular humanist without having the foggiest idea what I believe or practice. Your condemnation is more telling about your corrupted mind than anybody else's. Evil is where evil lives, and evil is all you seem to be able to see out there in the world. The world is but a mirror image of the inner workings of the observer.

You are free to live by the dictates of your beliefs. What others do is of no concern to you. That is up to your god to handle. It says so right in your book. Read it some time. But you won't because 1) you are catholic and only read catacism, 2) you might find that you are wrong about your role in this life.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Five pages into this Thread, and I have a question. It's a bit
off topic, but it might bring things back to the topic. Who knows?

If there is a God (& I'm not saying there is or isn't one), I wonder
what his/her opinion would be with respect to organized religion?

For those that don't believe there is a God, assume there is one
for the sake of answering the above question. For those that do
believe there is a God, would she/he approve of organized religion?
I don't really care which religion, but just organized religion in general.

If there is a God who created everything (& that would include all of
the folks who happen to be Gay too, I guess), would he/she have an
issue with prejudice against Gay people being denied any rights
that anybody else has, simply due to their sexual orientation?

I'm not asking about what any religious document says, but what your
heart (& your gut) tells you. What do YOU think and not what anyone
else tells you to think?

Why would you not want to read the very verses that tell you how Christ feels about certain subjects.

In asking for no actual verses you keep out some actual quotes on how the Bible has to say about sex between two men.

Well, my question had nothing to do with Christ or how he feels about
certain subject. Christ isn't a universal theme to all religions, and My
question had to do with Gods opinion of organized religion.

I was asking you and the other members here for your opinions, not
Christ's, or the authors of the Bible, or any other religious documents.
That's all.

For myself I think they make too big a deal about it, it shows how insecure they are. By somehow getting 'society' to accept them then they can also accept themselves. Being unable to reproduce only means their family tree will be a barren tree, extinction is the only possible outcome.

That's your own opinion. That's Cool. Thank You.

 

[Cliffy]

I think the gods sit around their heavenly pub, downing some heavenly beer, watching televangelists and laughing their genitals off. I would think the more austere cults, like the catholics and JWs probably piss them off. Hindus have had a lot more time to develop more complex and silly dogmas than Christians or Muslims and probably annoy them even more. Buddhists don't really believe in any personal gods, so they are probably the least annoying of the biggies.

Some of the lesser religions are probably seen on par with mindless sit coms, giggles between commercials. All in all, the gods are probably amused by the spectacle of human silliness and wondering how much longer it will take for us to wake up.

 

[MHz]

So your answer to your own questions would be ..........?

 

[captain morgan]

You are not the first self righteous clown to call me a secular humanist without having the foggiest idea what I believe or practice.

Frustrating when someone, that doesn't have a clue who you are or know anything about you, decides to make ignorant generalizations, eh?

 

[Ron in Regina]

So your answer to your own questions would be ..........?

Me? I just don't know, and really don't have an answer for the question I'm asking.

I don't knock anyone for their beliefs, and as long as they're not hurting anyone
due to their belief system, or try'n to recruit me into their belief system, it doesn't
affect me one way or another. Live and let live.

The organized religions and the recruiting efforts that seem to go along with them,
in a "my way is the only correct way" sort of thing is pretty freaky and annoying.

I guess, if there is a God, and She/He created all of us, the way I see it, would be
pretty unimpressed (depending on the level of some divine sense of humor) with
all of the competing religions stating that their way is the only right way and every
other is condemning their followers to (inset appropriate punishment) whatever.

I was curious what other people (key word here is people) think about this.

(P.S. I'm not try'n to sell a belief system, or recruit anyone into mine.)

 

[Cliffy]

Frustrating when someone, that doesn't have a clue who you are or know anything about you, decides to make ignorant generalizations, eh?

Yup. Your welcome for me pointing that out to you.;-):lol:

 

[captain morgan]

You lead by example very well.

Thx