Or at the very least, once he is deemed to be better, he should be given the same jail sentence that he would have gotten had he not been deemed "not criminally responsible". Heck, even any jail time would be suffice.
Funeral for Officer Sgt Ryan Russell - Some people are just plain Ignorant
- Thread starter Goober
- Start date
Or at the very least, once he is deemed to be better, he should be given the same jail sentence that he would have gotten had he not been deemed "not criminally responsible". Heck, even any jail time would be suffice.
Can you tell me why this guy, with mental problems, doesn't deserve an "out" and yet a police officer with no mental problems is excused for killing an innocent 13 yr old kid? I just can't quite wrap my mind around that one.
At the hearing, Dr. Philip Klassen testified that Kachkar’s mental illness wasn’t well understood especially since he hadn’t begun treatment. And still the ORB decided to grant him community access?
“From a risk management perspective, the Board was confronted with many uncertainties,” argues the Crown. “In the face of these uncertainties, it was not reasonable for the Board, without hearing submissions or evidence pertaining to the issue, to make provision for a return into the general community, where once again the police may be called upon to intervene.”
Judging from what was said in the parts I cut from the main post, it looks like they don't think he should be given the passes at this time either, and that includes his own counsel.
I know that you and I will never fully agree with the topic of mental illness when it comes to crime (I think there was another thread or two a ways back with similar topics), but I'm glad we can talk about it civilly.
What 13 year old? If you are talking about the one that had the realistic looking weapon, then the officer did what he was supposed to do. If it is determined that he didn't (like the one in the bus shooting a few months back), then he should be held accountable.
I don't think that anyone should be given special treatment. For example, a police officer should not be given a pass for a DUI while a regular citizen would get charged with it.
The main problem I had with regards to Vince Li is that he was originally on medication to treat his psychosis, and he chose to stop taking them. So, how was it not his fault? There can't be people following them around everywhere to make sure they take their medication, so if they do stop taking them then they should bear more responsibility.
From the cheap seats...
The guy was a homeless man, found not criminally responsible and sent to psychiatric care, correct?
My over-riding concern is if he is released from care, where are the guarantees that he will not revert to his old behavioural patterns, once again living homeless and be off his meds? Without this type of guarantee, he should not be released. If the "release" in question is supervised trips, I'm still not wild about the idea but I'm also not a PhD to diagnose or prescribe treatment for someone with mental illness. My bottom line is this guy should not get any benefit of the doubt in any of these decisions, based on the fact that when he was left to his own devices, it cost someone else their life.
The guy was a homeless man, found not criminally responsible and sent to psychiatric care, correct?
My over-riding concern is if he is released from care, where are the guarantees that he will not revert to his old behavioural patterns, once again living homeless and be off his meds? Without this type of guarantee, he should not be released. If the "release" in question is supervised trips, I'm still not wild about the idea but I'm also not a PhD to diagnose or prescribe treatment for someone with mental illness. My bottom line is this guy should not get any benefit of the doubt in any of these decisions, based on the fact that when he was left to his own devices, it cost someone else their life.
This just isn't logical given what the court determined about the case. Someone is found not criminally responsible only if, due to their mental illness, they are found to be "incapable of appreciating the nature and quality of the act or omission or of knowing that it was wrong."
What is the point of punishing someone for something that they couldn't understand in the first place? The forensic mental health system will hold them and treat them until they are deemed not to be a threat to society anymore.
If they have been treated and are no longer a threat to society, what is the benefit of subsequently tossing them into jail? In fact, it would probably be very detrimental to someone who is recovering from a mental illness and is on the right track, to then be tossed into the general prison population.
If we are going to accept that mental illness can make people do things as horrible as what Li did to Timothy McLean, accepting that it may cause someone to do something like not take their meds shouldn't be much of a stretch.
If treatment is deemed necessary to prevent the individual from being a danger to society, then their ability to continue treatment outside of the facility would be one of the main considerations in releasing him. Whenever Vince Li is released, he will undoubtedly be under a Community Treatment Order, which will compel him to continue his treatments or risk being put back into the facility. The order normally contain requirements such as taking meds and attending regular appointments(where the doctors can determine if he is taking his meds and following other parts of his treatment plan).
The idea that someone serves an entirely different sentence than you or I would in the exact same circumstances, due to the lack of a family support system, is a bit repugnant. Especially given the 'chicken and egg' issue that is mental illness and homelessness.
Now, don't mistake that opinion for having a solution. I won't even pretend to know how we're supposed to go about providing adequate mental care to homeless people, or adequate housing to mental patients, but, imprisoning them indefinitely just doesn't seem to be a valid 'go to' solution.
They are not going to release someone without sorting out their housing situation first. They would also put them under a community treatment order, so that if they don't go to their appointments, if they don't take their meds(which doctors can monitor at the appointments), then they can be put back into the mental health facility.
There is never any way to 100% guarantee that a person will never do anything bad again, but the same can be said for anyone you walk by on the street every day. But because these people have a history of violence, they do need increased attention.
From a straight up public safety perspective though, the recidivism rate in these cases is so low that it does seem like whatever they are doing is working.
You may find my reasoning to be repugnant but this guy killed someone. As a society we have determined that it was his mental illness that made this happen, but that doesn't change the fact that because of him (him being the sum of all his parts, good and bad, including his illness) a police officer is dead. That does warrant special consideration. Yes, we need to treat that illness but until we know that it is positively gone or that it can and will be controlled from here on, he has proven himself to be a risk to the rest of society.
Exactly. The rate of recidivism may be low but I don't like the idea of accepting that risk without some pretty firm evidence to support the conclusion that he is safe to release, which according to the articles linked, is not present in this case.
There is not a single article suggesting that he is going to be released any time soon. He is going to be allowed outside with multiple guards making sure that he doesn't do anything bad.
It's not simply 'your' reasoning, it's how the legal system is applied every day. Come from the right family, and you'll be treated differently for the exact same crime, than if you're homeless.
Police horse named after slain Sgt. Ryan Russell
By Terry Davidson, Toronto Sun
First posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 04:09 PM EDT | Updated: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 06:10 PM EDT
TORONTO - Toronto Police have named the force’s newest horse after an officer who was killed five years ago by a mentally deranged man behind the wheel of a stolen snow plow.
Russell, a four-year-old purebred Clydesdale, is the namesake of Sgt. Ryan Russell, who was run over by Richard Kachkar during the early-morning hours of Jan. 12, 2011.
While initially charged with first-degree murder, Kachkar was found not criminally responsible due to mental illness.
Russell’s widow Christine, son Nolan, parents and other family members were in attendance as Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders formally introduced the new steed.
“It’s hard to believe that ... it’s been five years and he is still being remembered and honoured by the Toronto Police,” Christine said. “It’s such an incredible honour for my family to see such a beautiful animal ... that is going to be put into service ... to work the streets, just as my husband did.”
Russell’s father, Glenn, said naming a police horse after his son is fitting, given his son’s love of animals.
“I know Ryan would be over the moon with this,” he said. “He loved (the family’s) dogs and cats. I’ve even seen him try and save a raccoon. He was just an animal lover — a very soft heart for animals.”
Christine spoke of “hard days” since her husband’s death, and of her ongoing frustration over the outcome of Kachkar’s trial.
“There have been a lot of hard days, a lot of negative days, and hard blows for my family to accept, and when something like this happens, it is such a special honour for my family,” she said.
Kachkar, homeless and in the throes of a psychotic episode, had climbed behind the wheel of an idling pickup equipped with a plow. He ran wild on the streets of downtown Toronto before striking Russell, who was trying to bring the truck to a stop.
Kachkar is at a mental health facility in Whitby.
TDavidson@postmedia.com
Police horse named after slain Sgt. Ryan Russell | Toronto & GTA | News | Toront
By Terry Davidson, Toronto Sun
First posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 04:09 PM EDT | Updated: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 06:10 PM EDT
TORONTO - Toronto Police have named the force’s newest horse after an officer who was killed five years ago by a mentally deranged man behind the wheel of a stolen snow plow.
Russell, a four-year-old purebred Clydesdale, is the namesake of Sgt. Ryan Russell, who was run over by Richard Kachkar during the early-morning hours of Jan. 12, 2011.
While initially charged with first-degree murder, Kachkar was found not criminally responsible due to mental illness.
Russell’s widow Christine, son Nolan, parents and other family members were in attendance as Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders formally introduced the new steed.
“It’s hard to believe that ... it’s been five years and he is still being remembered and honoured by the Toronto Police,” Christine said. “It’s such an incredible honour for my family to see such a beautiful animal ... that is going to be put into service ... to work the streets, just as my husband did.”
Russell’s father, Glenn, said naming a police horse after his son is fitting, given his son’s love of animals.
“I know Ryan would be over the moon with this,” he said. “He loved (the family’s) dogs and cats. I’ve even seen him try and save a raccoon. He was just an animal lover — a very soft heart for animals.”
Christine spoke of “hard days” since her husband’s death, and of her ongoing frustration over the outcome of Kachkar’s trial.
“There have been a lot of hard days, a lot of negative days, and hard blows for my family to accept, and when something like this happens, it is such a special honour for my family,” she said.
Kachkar, homeless and in the throes of a psychotic episode, had climbed behind the wheel of an idling pickup equipped with a plow. He ran wild on the streets of downtown Toronto before striking Russell, who was trying to bring the truck to a stop.
Kachkar is at a mental health facility in Whitby.
TDavidson@postmedia.com
Police horse named after slain Sgt. Ryan Russell | Toronto & GTA | News | Toront