First Nations paying tax payers bills for services

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
You are absolutely right, there will never be enough for us to give to make it all even in their minds and that's the big problem, as long as they keep thinking you and me owe them for events in the distant past it will never stop. Our grandchildren will be going through this again no matter what we may concede now so why bother.

But there is. We got treaties that cover a lot of this stuff and we just aren't living up to them. We haven't for years and now as people become educated and realize they as a culture have been getting screwed in a number of ways, they are standing up for their rights. In some cases violently. Everyone knows that there isn't a chance in hell that everyone is going to move out of Toronto and turn the place over to the people who have a claim against it. It would be stupid though to think that they should just get over it and forget about that being theirs to start with and no treaty being signed to negotiate the claim. You would be pissed if your insurance did that to you. So would you just accept it and move along or would you get a lawyer?

If we choose not to deal with it, yeah our kids and grand kids will be facing the same issues. That doesn't remove any of our responsibilities.

What I am saying is just draw a line and put it in the past and go forward as equal people with equal rights and priviliges from here forward.

I understand what you are saying but it's not that simple. We have to agree to do that or it doesn't work and so far, not to many First Nations communities are jumping on that bandwagon.

And FYI - my family was booted from our Barony in France during the revolution and I sure ain't trying to get the French to pay me for it or give it back...it's ancient history and I live in today.

Well I am no expert but if I understand it correctly, you're ancestors traded that barony for their necks. Just consider all those years of screwing the peasants gravy and consider it was a better deal than what you might have gotten. Just kidding. heh heh
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
You are absolutely right, there will never be enough for us to give to make it all even in their minds and that's the big problem, as long as they keep thinking you and me owe them for events in the distant past it will never stop. Our grandchildren will be going through this again no matter what we may concede now so why bother.

What I am saying is just draw a line and put it in the past and go forward as equal people with equal rights and priviliges from here forward.

And FYI - my family was booted from our Barony in France during the revolution and I sure ain't trying to get the French to pay me for it or give it back...it's ancient history and I live in today.
In BC, with no wars and no treaties, we have been taking resources illegally. Who gave the Queen the right to give away their property to greedy Europeans and Canadians. The indigenous people of this province were overrun and shat on without so much as a please or thank you. The point is that today we are still stealing their resources, so "the past is the past" argument is plain ignorant. We have devastated this province and wiped out most of the wildlife, decimated the indigenous population and fish stocks, clear cut almost all of the economically viable forests and now our wonderful government wants to give all the major rivers and creeks to private holdings. None of this should be happening without land claims being settled, but we go ahead and take everything. Maybe that is OK with you but it does not sit well with a lot of people who have integrity.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
3
36
London, Ontario
I will be the first to admit that, when it comes to treaties, land claims, rights, etc, I don't really know very much.
As I see it, the bottom line here is that no government, Federal or Provincial, should be taking more from a community than it invests back in. That's shameful behaviour and something I would expect from private interests but not our own government. Especially when that same government has been so incredibly wasteful. Resources should benefit everyone in a fair manner, and from what I have seen, there`s nothing about this that has been fair.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
We have treated our indigenous people like crap, beat their culture out of them, raped their children and have the audacity to look down on them because they catch a few fish and deer.

Speak for yourself. I haven't raped any children nor beaten anything out of anybody. Me thinks you've been listening to too much of CB's propaganda.

We live in a rape and pillage society that has no regard for future generations. It is all about me, me, me. Time to start treating people with respect instead of always looking out for number one. Karma has a way of equalizing the playing field and that day is long overdue.

...and the best way we can treat CB with respect is to stop treating him and his buddies like children. They can and should be looking after themselves just like everybody else.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Speak for yourself. I haven't raped any children nor beaten anything out of anybody. Me thinks you've been listening to too much of CB's propaganda.

Says the little piggy getting fat advantage from oil at the expense of the environment and the drinking water that supplies First Nations in Alberta and BC.

...and the best way we can treat CB with respect is to stop treating him and his buddies like children. They can and should be looking after themselves just like everybody else.

Yes, they should just eat cake. As usual I would like to see you live a day the way you say others should. I bet you couldn't make it through the morning without breaking down and crying in a heap of self pitying blubberdom.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
Says the little piggy getting fat advantage from oil at the expense of the environment and the drinking water that supplies First Nations in Alberta and BC.

Everybody drinks water, not just First Nations. I understand the need to hold them up as special in some way but they just aren't...sorry.



Yes, they should just eat cake. As usual I would like to see you live a day the way you say others should. I bet you couldn't make it through the morning without breaking down and crying in a heap of self pitying blubberdom.

How much would you like to bet?
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Everybody drinks water, not just First Nations. I understand the need to hold them up as special in some way but they just aren't...sorry.

They aren't special, they have a history and part of that history is an injustice that hasn't been addressed. What's more, some aspects are still going on. I believe in paying my debts so that I can hold my head up and sleep guilt free. Don't be shy, give it a go.

How much would you like to bet?

I've willing to stake your life on it. heh heh
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
Speak for yourself. I haven't raped any children nor beaten anything out of anybody. Me thinks you've been listening to too much of CB's propaganda.

...and the best way we can treat CB with respect is to stop treating him and his buddies like children. They can and should be looking after themselves just like everybody else.
By we I mean the dominant culture of which you and I are a part. We have taken everything away from the indigenous people including their land, their way of life, their culture, their identity and their self respect. I have been involved with indigenous people for 35 years. I know first hand the devastation wrought by the residential schools, where children, ripped from there families, received no love at all and when they had children they could not even hug them because emotionally they were dead inside, hundreds of thousands committed suicide, drank themselves into oblivion or hid behind a wall of drugs, numbing their hearts and souls.

Many have been climbing out of that pit that the dominant society dug for them. We, yes we, in the dominant society, destroyed their lives with our arrogance and ignorance in a egotistical attempt to "make them just like us". We shoved our religions and language down their throat and even if the conformed to our standards we still rejected them for being other than "white". Ask the Chinese, Japanese and East Indians how we treat anybody that isn't of European descent. We treated our indigenous people worse than animals. Now they are making a comeback, sobering up, getting clean, getting post secondary educations, jobs, getting "respectable" but society still treats many of them like savages, with fear or contempt. It has been a long hard road for many indigenous people, many are still struggling with deep seated emotional trauma and attitudes like yours are not helping.

This is not a problem that can be solved by throwing money at it. The people are regaining their pride, but the DIA does not help. They put sticks in their way every step of the way. Bureaucracy steals 60% of the moneys allotted First Nations for "administrative costs" and takes land (expropriation) from their reserves for roads, golf courses, etc. and when the people have no recourse but to stand in the way of being robbed once again, they meet nothing but disdain and anger from the dominant culture who see them as standing in the way of "progress". They are standing up for their rights and in the way of more theft of their land, however useless it may be, it is all that we have left them. Perhaps you are not directly involved in the theft but governments do it in your name and instead of outrage at government, you shout angrily at those "backward and savage people" who are trying to protect their place at the "trough", their free ride.

Well I hold the dominant society with disdain and contempt for their attitude , disrespect and treatment of a people who are struggling to rediscover their identity, to find their place in a hostile world.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Cliffy, Unf, thanx for taking all the fun out of it, by doing an excellent job of trying to educate the bigots.

You all lost the war then and you can certainly lose it agin if you want to keep pushing it.
What war would that be?

Me thinks you've been listening to too much of CB's propaganda.
What propaganda would that be?

...and the best way we can treat CB with respect is to stop treating him and his buddies like children. They can and should be looking after themselves just like everybody else.
Do you have some proof that I don't look after myself?
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
They aren't special, they have a history and part of that history is an injustice that hasn't been addressed. What's more, some aspects are still going on. I believe in paying my debts so that I can hold my head up and sleep guilt free. Don't be shy, give it a go.

I have no problem in paying my debts either. The only bone of contention is who "we" owe that debt to and how much. My opinion is that we owe this debt to "nations" we signed treaties with. Since CB and his buddies are no longer a nation, we don't owe them jack squat. I have no problem with them leaving Canada and creating their nation again...then we can adhere to the treaties we signed with them. It's quite clear, given how much CB involves himself in Canadian political debate, that he still considers himself Canadian. This is a clear sign that he isn't willing to cut the apron strings. He is no different than a soft federalist in Kweebeck. They're just out for a buck.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Cliffy, Unf, thanx for taking all the fun out of it, by doing an excellent job of trying to educate the bigots.

A pleasure bro!

What war would that be?

A little war called the World of Warcraft. I got the Mohawk grenade!

What propaganda would that be?

Do you have some proof that I don't look after myself?

Dude it's the butter in your hair. Happens to the best of us.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
My opinion is that we owe this debt to "nations" we signed treaties with. Since CB and his buddies are no longer a nation, we don't owe them jack squat.
Unfortunately, your opinion is trumped by the SCC, and Canada's commitment to international law.

So you'll have to suck it up and keep paying pumpkin.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
We have taken everything away from the indigenous people including their land, their way of life, their culture, their identity and their self respect.

No we haven't. I know lots of aboriginals with self respect and strong cultural identity. I also know lots of people from all backgrounds that like to blame "the man" for their short coming. Our only short coming is not expecting them to be self reliant like everybody else.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
30,245
99
48
Alberta
So you'll have to suck it up and keep paying pumpkin.

I don't disagree. Someday, perhaps we will get somebody elected that isn't willing to pander to those with agendas. It's nice that you've at least admitted that we are paying. It kind of flies in the face of all the whining that you've been doing because we "aren't paying". As I've alluded to before, truthfulness isn't one of your strong suits so I'm not surprised you've been caught yet again.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
It kind of flies in the face of all the whining that you've been doing because we "aren't paying".
Please, by all means, quote me saying just that pumpkin.

As I've alluded to before, truthfulness isn't one of your strong suits so I'm not surprised you've been caught yet again.
Ahh yes, being lectured on truthfulness, by someone that makes claims about how I live, and how I make a living, and your last claim, but won't furnish a shred of proof...

Ya, there's a liar in here, it would be you.

We know who CB blames.
Who, and can you back that up with a quote?

Or is this more of your lies?
 
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