Fed up with Islam Yet???

[CDNBear]

There are plenty of paralells..

So you've said. I'd like to see what you think is a parallel though.

We brought our own "different" religion too ya know.

I'm sure to the uneducated of the time, it may have seemed so, but in the end, it was just another Christian sect.

I won't claim to be even remotely well read on Ukrainian migration, or all the prejudices they faced. But from what I do know, the prejudice was born of numbers, political activism and from where they had immigrated from.

Not at all based on factual accounts.

What they faced was true xenophobia, imho.

I would seriously enjoy anything you would care to share on the matter.

Oh they materialized all right but once the fears subsided the things everyone feared were (almost I know of one you don't like) overwhelmingly accepted as good things.

The unfounded fears of the uninformed populace materialized?

That's news to me.

"almost I know of one you don't like" Please do tell. If I do dislike him, it's obviously based on something other than being Ukrainian.

 

[Spade]

There are plenty of paralells.. We brought our own "different" religion too ya know.

Oh they materialized all right but once the fears subsided the things everyone feared were (almost I know of one you don't like) overwhelmingly accepted as good things.

What we need are more speeches.
At the Boyd Banquet at Holland, Dec. 16, 1901, the Winnipeg Telegram, the Conservative paper, represents Mr. Roblin as saying: "The class for which they (the Liberals) are clamoring for the franchise has never been represented, the Doukhobor and the Galician have not taken up arms for the Empire. I would ask you if these men are your equals, the Doukhobors and Galicians? Would it be wise to give equality of power to these men who know nothing of our institutions or of the genius inspiring them? They cannot be considered the equals of you men who have been born and bred on British soil." (Cheers from Conservative banqueters).

I was raised on the prairies. As any prairie boy would similarly attest, I have witnessed discrimination against First Nations, Ukrainians, Doukhobours, Japanese, Jews, Chinese, and yes, Muslims. (Sorry, this is the short list; if I've missed some, I apologize)

The Muslims along whom I worked and lived were no different from any group: minority or majority - some bastards but the vast majority fine and valued colleagues and fellow citizens.

 

[petros]

On September 10, 1917 Sir Wilfred Laurier (Prime Minister of Canada between 1896 and 1911) rose in the House of Commons to oppose the Union Government of Sir Robert Borden on the issue of the continued mistreatment of Ukrainian Canadians. Sir Wilfred Laurier said, "When the war is over, when peace Is restored, and when we come to normal life, when we shall send our Immigration agents to Europe again as we did before, do you believe that our Canadian immigration agents, when they go among the Galicians, Bukovinians (Ukrainians), that these different races will be disposed to come to this country, when they know that Canada has not met its pledges and promises to these people, who have settled in our midst. . . if it be said in Canada that the pledges which we have given to immigration when inviting them to come to this country to settle with us, can be broken with impunity, that we will not trust these men, and that we will not be true to the promises which we made to them, then I despair for the future of this country. . . I have been supporting the government on the war issue up to the present session. I am sorry that the occasion arose during this session when I had to discontinue my support for the Government on an issue of great importance. I am sorry that I have to again dissent with the Government on this measure, but I believe, and we shall all be judged some day by our actions here...that in this instance the Government is taking a step which will cause serious injury to the country".

 

[CDNBear]

What we need are more speeches.
At the Boyd Banquet at Holland, Dec. 16, 1901, the Winnipeg Telegram, the Conservative paper, represents Mr. Roblin as saying: "The class for which they (the Liberals) are clamoring for the franchise has never been represented, the Doukhobor and the Galician have not taken up arms for the Empire. I would ask you if these men are your equals, the Doukhobors and Galicians? Would it be wise to give equality of power to these men who know nothing of our institutions or of the genius inspiring them? They cannot be considered the equals of you men who have been born and bred on British soil." (Cheers from Conservative banqueters).

An excellent example of baseless xenophobic rhetoric. And nothing more.

How can you make the connection between that and the overwhelming facts that come out of Islam daily?

I was raised on the prairies. As any prairie boy would similarly attest, I have witnessed discrimination against First Nations, Ukrainians, Doukhobours, Japanese, Jews, Chinese, and yes, Muslims. (Sorry, this is the short list; if I've missed some, I apologize)

I was raised in the eastern woodlands, I experienced discrimination first hand.

The Muslims along whom I worked and lived were no different from any group: minority or majority - some bastards but the vast majority fine and valued colleagues and fellow citizens.

I can honestly say, I haven't met a Muslim I didn't like. I've met less than I can count on one hand, that I wouldn't wave to.

That doesn't negate the fact that there is an overwhelming amount of information available, highlighting the downside of Islam.

On September 10, 1917 Sir Wilfred Laurier (Prime Minister of Canada between 1896 and 1911) rose in the House of Commons to oppose the Union Government of Sir Robert Borden on the issue of the continued mistreatment of Ukrainian Canadians. Sir Wilfred Laurier said, "When the war is over, when peace Is restored, and when we come to normal life, when we shall send our Immigration agents to Europe again as we did before, do you believe that our Canadian immigration agents, when they go among the Galicians, Bukovinians (Ukrainians), that these different races will be disposed to come to this country, when they know that Canada has not met its pledges and promises to these people, who have settled in our midst. . . if it be said in Canada that the pledges which we have given to immigration when inviting them to come to this country to settle with us, can be broken with impunity, that we will not trust these men, and that we will not be true to the promises which we made to them, then I despair for the future of this country. . . I have been supporting the government on the war issue up to the present session. I am sorry that the occasion arose during this session when I had to discontinue my support for the Government on an issue of great importance. I am sorry that I have to again dissent with the Government on this measure, but I believe, and we shall all be judged some day by our actions here...that in this instance the Government is taking a step which will cause serious injury to the country".

That doesn't answer any of my questions.

Both you and Spade are acting as if the facts of what is done in the name of Islam, do not exist.

 

[petros]

"the overwhelming facts that come out of Islam daily".

In 1914 what was considered to be fact lead to disenfranchisement and internment.

 

[CDNBear]

In 1914 what was considered to be fact lead to disenfranchisement and internment.

Oh please, this isn't 1914, and what is generally reported, isn't rhetoric. I'm not talking about Op/Ed pieces. I'm talking about documented events.

 

[petros]

Oh please, this isn't 1914.

Stupidity has an expiration date?

 

[Spade]

More recent internments include the Japanese and Sons of Freedom children (1950s) behind barbed wire.

 

[petros]

More recent internments include the Japanese and Sons of Freedom children (1960s) behind barbed wire.

Nothing new under the sun.....

 

[CDNBear]

Stupidity has an expiration date?

You completely negate the fact that in 1914, people didn't have the access we have to global media, and real time reporting.

In 1914, papers were the common form of information sharing. A medium not only susceptible to yellow journalism, it was well documented.

People were heavily influenced by opinion, rather than facts.

The fact is, the rhetoric used to discriminate against Ukrainians, was baseless, opinion. Not supported by anything but formulated conjecture.

Contrary to that, the daily dose of evidence of the downsides of Islam, without the effects of opinion, are clear, and available from a multitude of unbiased, un-manipulated sources.

More recent internments include the Japanese and Sons of Freedom children (1960s) behind barbed wire.

Residential schools weren't officially closed until the mid 90's.

 

[petros]

You completely negate the fact that in 1914, people didn't have the access we
have to global media, and real time reporting.

Now stupidity can disseminate faster than ever.

 

[Spade]

Residential schools weren't officially closed until the mid 90's.

And, they were an effort to assimilate and eliminate a culture. They weren't right and were based on xenophobia.

 

[CDNBear]

Stupidity has an expiration date?

Obviously not. Or the following wouldn't have been posted...

Now stupidity can disseminate faster than ever.

What an excellent example of the baseless rhetoric, no different than that used to fuel the prejudices faced by Ukrainians.

And, they were an effort to assimilate and eliminate a culture. They weren't right and were based on xenophobia.

Certainly not based on any evidence of the same caliber or quantity, as provided by Islam.

 

[petros]

It's pig headed to think we are any better than 100 years ago or even 1000 years ago due to communication. Stupidity and the neuro-chemical con job known as xenophobia are timeless and now spread faster than ever.

 

[CDNBear]

It's pig headed to think we are any better than 100 years ago or even 1000 years ago due to communication. Stupidity and the neuro-chemical con job known as xenophobia are timeless and now spread faster than ever.

Speaking of con jobs.

Simplemindedly claiming xenophobia is the route cause across the board, and at every turn. Instead of answering posed questions, or offering anything to back up your claims. Is so 100 years ago.

The only thing you've managed to prove, is that you are not only capable of, but have steadfastly adhered to the use of the same principles, used to discriminate against Ukrainians.

 

[petros]

Maybe we should have flown bi-planes into grain elevators to get our point across? No retaliations against the xenophobia ever happened like it has with Islam?

 

[CDNBear]

Maybe we should have flown bi-planes into grain elevators to get our point across?

Maybe you shouldn't employ the same thinking that led to the discrimination against the Ukrainians in the 1900's.

No retaliations against the xenophobia ever happened like it has with Islam?

Can you rephrase that question? The loading of it has made it unanswerable.

 

[petros]

OMG!!! They are getting angry at being treated like ****. Shoot! Shoot!

 

[CDNBear]

OMG!!! They are getting angry at being treated like ****. Shoot! Shoot!

You already admitted that your lineage hasn't changed its way of thinking in a 100 years, there is no need to supply any more evidence.

Your admission was fully accepted.

 

[petros]

Neither has yours and both have been in the same boat right from day one. Ukes and natives were both treated the same on the Prairie. It's hard to find a rez that isn't surrounded by Uke settlements and homesteads because the English felt the same way about both of us.