Fat Kids

[SirJosephPorter]

That's nonsense. You can theorize all you want about how we evolved, how obesity is not totally our fault...a typical cop-out (with a very few exceptions)..."blame something or somebody other than yourself." Ever heard of taking responsiblity for your own actions?

It's very simple, as others have pointed out - eat less, eat better, and get some exercise. We also evolved with a brain in our head and it has a function - to allow us to think. Thinking about what we're eating (not just how much of it, but what kind of food) can lead to all kinds of wonderful improvements.

You can’t argue with evolution, countryboy. Evolution is survival of the fittest, and until very recently, it was the obese gene which was the fitter of the two. The abundance of food is fairly recent in origin. Until say a couple of hundred years ago, most people were involved in subsistence farming, food was scarce and expensive.

Why do you think people were skinnier in the old days, why obesity was not as prevalent in the old days? Do you think people were more knowledgeable, more responsible in old days? Don’t you believe it. In the old days, fatty foods, refined sugar etc. were just not available, or were very expensive. So people just couldn’t afford to eat rich food and get fat.

In the old days, when food was scarce, obesity was a distinct advantage. These days, with ready and cheap availability of food, obesity has become a liability, but historically it wasn’t so.

So you can mouth all the platitudes you like, eat less, eat better, exercise etc. (and that is all good advice, don’t get me wrong). However, the underlying reason why many people are prone to obesity lies in evolution.

 

[lone wolf]

Have a link about that gene?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

This all might be difficult for some to understand, but not for most people. Mind you, it would take an open mind to absorb something this simple. If we think we already know everything, we ain't gonna' learn the basics of food, are we? In fact, we wouldn't learn much at all!

Really? If it is so simple, if you claim that most people understand (and presumably agree with you), then why is there such a big problem with obesity? And not only with kids (though that is bad enough), but also with adults.

If it was so simple as you claim, everybody would be thin, there would be nothing to it. But clearly everybody isn’t, so something is wrong somewhere, and it is important to understand the reason why. Statistics tell us that those who lose weight, 95% of them gain it all back within the year.

The reason is genetic, much as you may not want to admit it. It is more complicated that you evidently seem to think. But you are not alone, many people like simple solutions to complex problems, that is how a demagogue becomes popular with the people. Too much unemployment? Immigrants are causing that, get rid of immigrants, ban all immigration and unemployment problem would be solved. People are not earning enough? Taxes are too high, reduce the taxes (especially on the rich) and everybody will be richer. Deficit is too high? It is the fault of the poor, cut spending for the poor, and that will balance the deficit. And so on.

So the the general tenor of discussion seems to be, obesity is the problem? Well, blame the fat people, it is their fault. But the world is rarely black and white like that. No doubt everybody is responsible for their own weight and shout try to keep the weight in control. But there is also a strong genetic component to it, it is not a black and white as you (and evidently many here) seem to think.

 

[lone wolf]

What happens when you advertise all over the place then put a McDonalds, Burger King or Wendys in every mall?

 

[countryboy]

You can’t argue with evolution, countryboy. Evolution is survival of the fittest, and until very recently, it was the obese gene which was the fitter of the two. The abundance of food is fairly recent in origin. Until say a couple of hundred years ago, most people were involved in subsistence farming, food was scarce and expensive.

Why do you think people were skinnier in the old days, why obesity was not as prevalent in the old days? Do you think people were more knowledgeable, more responsible in old days? Don’t you believe it. In the old days, fatty foods, refined sugar etc. were just not available, or were very expensive. So people just couldn’t afford to eat rich food and get fat.

In the old days, when food was scarce, obesity was a distinct advantage. These days, with ready and cheap availability of food, obesity has become a liability, but historically it wasn’t so.

So you can mouth all the platitudes you like, eat less, eat better, exercise etc. (and that is all good advice, don’t get me wrong). However, the underlying reason why many people are prone to obesity lies in evolution.

...And can you mouth all the platitudes you want about evolution, but why bother? Is it going to fix the problems? What good is knowledge if it's not used to solve problems and make things better? Going around telling everyone that it's not their fault that they're dying from extreme obesity is a strange way to bend that trend.

I can only assume that back in history, where you seem to be focused, there was enough food to go around that a few survived. We got to a few billion people today somehow, didn't we?

I think you also missed the point about the types of food we have available today. You seem to think "food" is just "food", no matter what timeframe we're talking about. Most of the stuff that's in a fast food burger today is quite different than the "days of yore" upon which you are fixated. The hormones and antibiotics fed to the factory beef, the interesting additives in processed cheese, the sulphites in the lettuce, the mysteries in the lovely soft burger bun, and many other goodies have only been around since the 50s or later, for the most part. This is a result of the efforts of large companies and their scientific approach to "improving" our "food", and believe me, I used the term "food" in this context while stifling what would otherwise be considered a laugh, if it wasn't so tragic.

If we're going to discuss this subject (Fat Kids), I respectfully suggest that you do a bit of research on the subject so that we are able to have an intelligent exchange of ideas, hopefully with a direction to finding some real solutions. That would - if you'll pardon the pun - give some "meat" to the exercise.

 

[Johnnny]

What happens when you advertise all over the place then put a McDonalds, Burger King or Wendys in every mall?

the sucker gene kicks in

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Sir Joe: Humans have not evolved to obesity, rather they have been programmed to it. Rotten ronnies did not get to be the largest fat food chain because of concerns for peoples health. It is not so much how much you eat but rather what you eat. Doughnuts are called fat pills for a reason. Pills provided by your doctor are often questionable and can have many adverse side effects. Go visit a good naturopath and get tested for food allergies and a diet check.

Humans have evolved for obesity, taxslave. Tell me, why do we like fatty, rich foods? Why do we prefer cakes, pies, deserts, steak, Big Macs etc. to lettuce, celery? Why does a cheesecake taste so yummy, while broccoli tastes so yucky? Even former president Bush badmouthed broccoli.

The reason for that is that when the body sees fatty, rich foods, it wants to store up fat for any future famine, it has to have the calories. That is why fatty foods taste so great, it is the body’s way of storing up the fat, making provisions for any future famine.

When you are fighting obesity, when you are trying to reduce weight, you are essentially fighting against your own body. The body wants to weight a lot so that it can survive future famine, while your brain wants to weigh less, due to harmful side effects of obesity. It is a battle between your brain and your body, your natural instincts. And the body usually wins, if not in the short run, then in the long run. That is why it is s difficult to reduce weight and keep it reduced.

 

[lone wolf]

Why is it so difficult to post that link? You have a long history of assuming your own opinions are gospel for the world at large.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

.
If we're going to discuss this subject (Fat Kids), I respectfully suggest that you do a bit of research on the subject so that we are able to have an intelligent exchange of ideas, hopefully with a direction to finding some real solutions. That would - if you'll pardon the pun - give some "meat" to the exercise.

It is important to fully understand the nature of the problem, rather than propose simple solutions to complex problems. Eat right, eat less, exercise, sure. Good advice. But then why hasn’t it worked? Unless you look into that, any such platitudes will sound empty.

We know what to do to reduce obesity. As you rightly pointed you, eat right, eat less, exercise. But then why isn’t it working? It is not so simple, is it?

I personally don’t know that the solution is, if I did, I would be famous. But I do know that the solution is not to blame fat people, tell them it is their fault and lecture them to eat less. It is not that easy, it doesn’t wok that way.

 

[countryboy]

Really? If it is so simple, if you claim that most people understand (and presumably agree with you), then why is there such a big problem with obesity? And not only with kids (though that is bad enough), but also with adults.

If it was so simple as you claim, everybody would be thin, there would be nothing to it. But clearly everybody isn’t, so something is wrong somewhere, and it is important to understand the reason why. Statistics tell us that those who lose weight, 95% of them gain it all back within the year.

The reason is genetic, much as you may not want to admit it. It is more complicated that you evidently seem to think. But you are not alone, many people like simple solutions to complex problems, that is how a demagogue becomes popular with the people. Too much unemployment? Immigrants are causing that, get rid of immigrants, ban all immigration and unemployment problem would be solved. People are not earning enough? Taxes are too high, reduce the taxes (especially on the rich) and everybody will be richer. Deficit is too high? It is the fault of the poor, cut spending for the poor, and that will balance the deficit. And so on.

So the the general tenor of discussion seems to be, obesity is the problem? Well, blame the fat people, it is their fault. But the world is rarely black and white like that. No doubt everybody is responsible for their own weight and shout try to keep the weight in control. But there is also a strong genetic component to it, it is not a black and white as you (and evidently many here) seem to think.

Some people are followers, some are leaders. And some just like to make simple things difficult. And then talk a lot about how difficult things are. And then end up getting absolutely nowhere.

If it is so difficult for YOU to understand the nutritional difference between an apple and a fast food burger, I strongly suggest suggest you need to read up on basic nutrition. And please go to more than one source so you can get a good cross section of information on how the Vitamin C content of an apple differs from the CLA (Conjugated Linoleic Acid) in factory beef in terms of its effect on the health of the typical human body.

You might also to consult with one or two naturopathic doctors to hear how they feel about your theory on genes and evolution, and how it relates to the work they're doing these days in trying to clean up the mess.

By the way, you talk about people losing weight and then gaining it back again. Gee, did you think you were telling us something new? That's simple a result of some sort of diet (Atkins, etc.), which, for the most part, are an exercise in long term futility. A lifestyle change - based on a basic understanding of food & nutrition (which is, contrary to what you claim, SIMPLE) and a very basic exercise program - is the real key to losing weight and feeling better. A lifestyle change won't take place until the person is motivated to do it. And they won't be motivated if they don't understand it. And they won't understand it until they see, absorb, and understand this very SIMPLE and basic information. So please quit trying to make things cloudy - you're not helping anyone by doing that.

Am I making this too difficult for you to understand it? If so, please let me know and I'll see if I can boil it down even further for you. Only too happy to help!

 

[lone wolf]

Put the same kind of ban on fast food ads as they have on beer and cigarette ads

 

[countryboy]

Humans have evolved for obesity, taxslave. Tell me, why do we like fatty, rich foods? Why do we prefer cakes, pies, deserts, steak, Big Macs etc. to lettuce, celery? Why does a cheesecake taste so yummy, while broccoli tastes so yucky? Even former president Bush badmouthed broccoli.

The reason for that is that when the body sees fatty, rich foods, it wants to store up fat for any future famine, it has to have the calories. That is why fatty foods taste so great, it is the body’s way of storing up the fat, making provisions for any future famine.

When you are fighting obesity, when you are trying to reduce weight, you are essentially fighting against your own body. The body wants to weight a lot so that it can survive future famine, while your brain wants to weigh less, due to harmful side effects of obesity. It is a battle between your brain and your body, your natural instincts. And the body usually wins, if not in the short run, then in the long run. That is why it is s difficult to reduce weight and keep it reduced.

Ever heard of the term "analysis paralysis?" You appear to have a very negative approach to problem-solving. Coming up with reasons why things CAN'T be done vs. why they CAN be done gets you nowhere. Can you offer any solutions to the problem? I'm assuming you at least understand that a problem exists.

 

[countryboy]

It is important to fully understand the nature of the problem, rather than propose simple solutions to complex problems. Eat right, eat less, exercise, sure. Good advice. But then why hasn’t it worked? Unless you look into that, any such platitudes will sound empty.

We know what to do to reduce obesity. As you rightly pointed you, eat right, eat less, exercise. But then why isn’t it working? It is not so simple, is it?

I personally don’t know that the solution is, if I did, I would be famous. But I do know that the solution is not to blame fat people, tell them it is their fault and lecture them to eat less. It is not that easy, it doesn’t wok that way.

"But then why hasn’t it worked?" It has, for many people.

"But then why isn’t it working? It is not so simple, is it?" Yes, it is. You just refused to accept the concept of simplicity.

"I personally don’t know that the solution is, if I did, I would be famous." I think you already are, in your own mind.

"But I do know that the solution is not to blame fat people, tell them it is their fault and lecture them to eat less. It is not that easy, it doesn’t wok that way."
I don't recall anyone - other than YOU - bringing up the subject of blaming fat people for anything. I guess you have - by your own admission - have nothing more to contribute to the discussion then, right?

 

[TenPenny]

I hope so. It's kind of what I had in mind when I wrote it. I would really like to hear why "we" can't blame ourselves for pigging out on crap food instead of good food.

Because 'we' must NOT take responsibility for our own actions; that would suggest that it is our responsibility to change them.

No matter what your problem is, you are required to find someone/something to blame.
Example:
If you are fat, it's because McDonalds sells crappy food. And you are, apparently, required to go there and eat it.

 

[countryboy]

Because 'we' must NOT take responsibility for our own actions; that would suggest that it is our responsibility to change them.

No matter what your problem is, you are required to find someone/something to blame.
Example:
If you are fat, it's because McDonalds sells crappy food. And you are, apparently, required to go there and eat it.

Is that like programming?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

"But then why hasn’t it worked?" It has, for many people.

It has worked, really? Then why is there such a big problem of obesity? The fact is that it hasn't worked, that is why we are discussing obesity here.

"But then why isn’t it working? It is not so simple, is it?" Yes, it is. You just refused to accept the concept of simplicity.

Again, if it is so simple, why hasn't it worked, why do we still have such a big problem of obesity?

"I personally don’t know that the solution is, if I did, I would be famous." I think you already are, in your own mind.

Well, you don't have any solution, do you, except to utter platitudes?

"But I do know that the solution is not to blame fat people, tell them it is their fault and lecture them to eat less. It is not that easy, it doesn’t wok that way."
I don't recall anyone - other than YOU - bringing up the subject of blaming fat people for anything. I guess you have - by your own admission - have nothing more to contribute to the discussion then, right?

You are not blaming fat people, really? Then what is the reason of telling them to eat less, eat right, to exercise? Do you think they don’t know it, that you are telling them something new?

What you are doing is the classic blame the victim attitude. The same attitude that wants to solve the drug problem by locking up drug addicts.

Fat people don’t need advice like eat less, eat right etc. most of them already know that. They need the reasons why it doesn’t work, and what could possibly a solution to it.

 

[talloola]

It is not hilarious talloola; there is a lot of truth to it. I don’t mean thyroid or glandular problem, I don’t know how widespread that is.

But the fact is, we were evolved for obesity. In the old days food was scarce. An obese person, who had slow metabolic rate and how could store fat on his/her body rather easily, had an advantage over a skinny person, the one who burned calories rather fast.

In a famine (and there were plenty of them in historic, prehistoric times), an obese person was much more likely to survive than a skinny person. So skinniness was bred out of human race, skinny people died at a much great rate than obesity prone people, and we have ended up with essentially an obese race.

That is why so many people are obese. People find it easy to put on weight and difficult to take it off. It is not totally their own fault; humans have evolved to cherish obesity as a hedge against famine, against starvation.

Skinny and obese are the extremes of each problem. I can imagine the obese person
surviving longer than the skinny one in times of famine, but that doesn't mean he/she will survive, just take longer to die.

 

[Johnnny]

what about combat? id put money on the more agile skinny guy

 

[lone wolf]

Hey, Let's all go to A& W

You deserve a break today

Have it your way

Perhaps one should look at fast lifestyle (things are so much better today) and media blitzes....

Is there room for "lead us not into temptation"?

 

[countryboy]

It has worked, really? Then why is there such a big problem of obesity? The fact is that it hasn't worked, that is why we are discussing obesity here.



Again, if it is so simple, why hasn't it worked, why do we still have such a big problem of obesity?



Well, you don't have any solution, do you, except to utter platitudes?



You are not blaming fat people, really? Then what is the reason of telling them to eat less, eat right, to exercise? Do you think they don’t know it, that you are telling them something new?

What you are doing is the classic blame the victim attitude. The same attitude that wants to solve the drug problem by locking up drug addicts.

Fat people don’t need advice like eat less, eat right etc. most of them already know that. They need the reasons why it doesn’t work, and what could possibly a solution to it.

SirJP - You seem to be having a problem here. I can only assume the new "flavour" of the discussion you've introduced here ("blame the victim attitude" ??) is based on the fact that you have nothing really productive to say on the subject. If so, why don't you just admit it? You appear to be avoiding the direct issue here and skirting around by offering little jibes and snipes. Childish, at best.

Trying to warp and twist things that haven't even been said or implied by the "opposing" person (the one that doesn't agree with everything you say) doesn't add any substance to what could otherwise be a worthwhile discussion.

So let me help you out here - if someone is not aware of the causes of a problem, and if those answers actually exist (which they do), then quite obviously the answer is to find a process of education to help them understand it. It would then become a matter of what information should be contained in that education, how it could be presented in the most effective manner, and likely much more.

And we get could to the "much more" if you could control your emotions to the point where an objective discussion could take place, rather than focusing on things that don't matter. Distractions, I call them. Interesting sometimes, but quite counter productive in the long haul.

In this discussion, I'm trying to help seek solutions. Why are you in it?