Faith Alone or and something...
- Thread starter cj44
- Start date
MHZ, You said the following: "How many pages before you begin to have enough knowledge to qualify as having faith? I would put it as very few and knowledge is given even while in the grave?" I have absolutely no idea what you are saying here. I am no grammarian, but WHAT????
The ones I chatted with seemed to have broken the trinity doctrine and believed Jesus was the Son of God. The one time I stumped them was when the topic was Christmas and I mentioned that some (like them) believe Jesus was born is September rather than December. I then confirmed that they believed a name gets entered into the book of life at conception, I believe that also so that far no argument but they did do a quick glance at each other as the signal 'expect some condemnation' and then I said it was roughly 9 months before that conception would have taken place putting that someplace in December so wayward Christian are celebrating a holy day but they are doing it for the wrong reason. The right reason celebration of His conception rather than day of of breathing air on His own.
If you go by that rule there would be no real Christians because all of Daniels 70 weeks expired as a single block of time. 90% have a different version.
MHZ: Also you said: "Christ is only relevant to being a Gentile and being alive at the first opportunity." Again, I am not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying Christ is only relevant to Gentiles? Also, who or what is being alive at the first opportunity?
Petros: Are we very certain that we want to entrust our eternity to our feelings? Maybe I get the feeling to paint my **** blue and bark at the moon. Afterwards, I can say, "wow that was spiritual. I really felt faith". But, perhaps in reality I had a little too much bourbon. This is not to say that feelings of faith or being drawn to worship God do not occur. They most certainly do, but I would humbly warn against putting all our faith eggs in the feeling basket. Given our sinful nature, vain imaginings are easily crafted by the devil.
God is energy. There is only one way to physically experience electricity. When you've felt it, you know it's real and how powerful it is.
Petros: I promise I won't banter about "there being only one way to physically experience electricity". I can think many ways, but no matter. Please elaborate. God is Energy - tell us about it.
Petros: Certainly the Pope would consider himself a Christian. I know priests that also without hesitation say they are Christian. Would not your priest say he is a Christian?
well that's interesting because years ago my Evangelical friend told me I wasn't Christian because I was Catholic. So you agree with her. I on the other hand thought it quite entertaining that she had the temerity to decide for god, what god did or did not think about me.
You can experience the side effects of electricity like a motor running or a light bulb but that is second hand. To experience it first hand it's a shocking experience.
The Pope is Catholic too. His Religion is Christian
The Pope is Catholic too. His Religion is Christian
Petros: You said "You can experience the side effects of electricity like a motor running or a light bulb but that is second hand. To experience it first hand it's a shocking experience. The Pope is Catholic too. His Religion is Christian".
So is your religion Christian too? What does being electrically shocked do for your faith?
So is your religion Christian too? What does being electrically shocked do for your faith?
no
I no longer accept that one must have a certain set of beliefs in order to be a child of god... I do not adhere to the Christian definition of god, it is too cruel and limiting...my god that I have always known can not be limited that way...even as a child in my heart I knew man's interpretation of god and his will was fundamentally flawed and too small to encompass his greatness.
He could be right as 1% is a number even of the last one has a lot of zero's in it. Remember when I said I had a certain amount of faith after reading the NT 'of my own accord'. Well there is a little more to the story which you may find relevant or not. If he finds me to be loony guess what that makes him if he ever tries to 'chat' with me. Even worse would him finding something that he naturally agrees with.
This was at the end of 1988 and written down about 2000, about 2 years after I started chatting online. I mention the gap because it was still very vivid after that gap in time. The reading was probably about 1 week and it started the day after, the Bible was a` 20 lbs but the print was big.' as was the chair I had.
I started of with the Lord's Prayer and just as I was about to start my plea I got a vision that I was outside my body and saw myself, from the back and above, in a kneeling position with a mist a very short distance in front of me that obscured any further view.
I heard myself say "Master, I don't feel so good." A large hand came out of the mist and completely enclosed my body. This happened in a 'twinkling of an eye', I found myself enclosed in this hand and it scared me to no end because I struggled to be free of it's grasp but found I could move not even one little bit. This feeling of being scared lasted only for the briefest of moments.
What replaced it was the most peaceful feeling I have ever experienced, bar none, and to be quite truthful have not experienced that 'level' of peace since.
As soon as this wave of peace (meaning I was in the company of someone who cared for me much more than my words will ever be able to describe) overcame me the hand loosed it 'grip' on me and it opened and I found myself sitting on this palm facing the ends of the fingers and seeing further forward than that.
In front was a hallway, very tall and the walls were black. The walls were not smooth, but rather, had many indentations and sharp corners at these indentations. There was a faint light at each of these 'corners' and that was the only way I could tell the walls were not smooth, the rest was pitch black, I could see neither floor nor ceiling, only these faint corners.
We were moving down this hallway at a leisurely rate and as I was feeling very 'relaxed' I was going to change my sitting position so I had my hands behind my back and then I could lean back and rest on them. As I was leaning back one hand seemed to miss the expected surface that would support it and I ended up rolling to one side. I looked back to see what had 'gone wrong' and I observed a great hole in the palm of this hand. I immediately burst into tears and said with alarm "You've been hurt!"
I heard not a word but my tears left me and I spent the next few moments crawling around the hand, much like I did on the school-ground equipment when I was a small child.
This hallway had corners in addition to the indentations in that it was not straight as we have halls. We came around one corner and off to the right I could see a faint glow of light some distance down this other smaller hallway.
I asked "What's down there?" A voice (rather deep but very 'soothing') answered "You're not ready for this, but I will show you."
Off we went down this other hallway going around gently curving corners and the light got brighter with each corner we passed. In very short order we came out on a dusty,earthen path and I could see a sky. This path was rather narrow and had grass growing on either edge.
On the grass to the left there were several rabbits hopping around, a few bounds then they would stop and nibble the grass, a few more bounds, another nibble. Our presence did not disturb them in the least.
Just behind the rabbits, only a few yards from the path, was what I would best describe would be a three-wire barbed fence, not in the best of repair as the wire sagged a bit between the posts and none of the posts stood up properly but were tilted a bit at various angles.
A bit of distance from this was another fence made of planking, much like you would find around any farm that kept horses or cows, and behind were some farm buildings, house and small barn made of the same wood as the plank fence.
All the wood was very weathered but the condition of the buildings and fence would not warrant paint as this would be a waste because of their condition.
As I looked over at this scene I noticed several dogs in the yard. There was much running and yelping and much dust from all this activity. I could not determine if this activity was caused by our presence or not and if, in fact, the dogs were playing or it was a somewhat more serious matter they were involved in. The circles they made were small and done in quick fashion so in the short time I observed them they completed many circles.
The path we were on also had the gentle twists and turns like the hallways we had just came from did. We continued down this dusty path and came around another corner and came to a stop. The path ended here and was replaced by a large open space covered in lush grass, a short distance from us I could see gently rolling hill. I could see far enough to see three or four 'rows' of these hills, one behind the other. Very beautiful and serene but what was most astounding about these hills was that they were completely covered by people, standing so closely together that not one more person could have stood with them. There was a small open space between where the path ended and this large crowd stood, which is how I knew the grass was so lush.
On this grass, about midway between the end of the path and where the crowd started stood two people, one man, one woman. As remarkable as this whole scene was I was still even more astounded to see not one strand of hair on any of their heads, not one anywhere.
The two in front spoke no words but it was quite plain they were pleased to see 'Him'. No words were spoken to any from 'Him' either.
We turned and went back from where we had come from. Back into the little hallway till we turned left at the larger one.
We continued down this for some distance until we came to a doorway that was on our left.
I heard a voice say "This is a safe place for you."
The door opened and I went inside to a circular room about 50 steps in width. The room was decorated in many shades of brown and the 'outer wall' had shelves that went way round all filled with books. The middle had furnishings that matched the colors of the bookcases.
The door closed and I was alone.
I stood for a moment and went to the door and opened it just a crack. What I felt was sheer terror, and quickly re-closed the door and felt the terror was gone, as long as the door remained closed.
What was outside was not only terror but evil in that it had nothing good planned for me should I be foolish enough to open my door and go into the passage on my own.
What if you have already fulfilled all the requirements by knowing there is such a word at all?
Sal: I will have to say that I agree with you in that man's interpretaion of god is flawed & most certainly too small to encompass his greatness.
MHZ: THis is a funny thing you say, "As remarkable as this whole scene was I was still even more astounded to see not one strand of hair on any of their heads, not one anywhere". After reading your entire post, I would say there are more astonishing things than the two being bald. What do you conclude about this experience? What do you suppose was the purpose of such an experience.
MHZ: THis is a funny thing you say, "As remarkable as this whole scene was I was still even more astounded to see not one strand of hair on any of their heads, not one anywhere". After reading your entire post, I would say there are more astonishing things than the two being bald. What do you conclude about this experience? What do you suppose was the purpose of such an experience.
Do we really need another thread on religion or is this different from the other 814 threads we already have?
I get the biggest kick when a person starts explaining religion to me, like they know any more about it than you or I! -
They do it just to put you in the subordinate position.