Environment Canada to get rid of 60 scientists

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
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I believe that it does have tremendous benefits. Employing a group that has a specialized focus will generate better results more rapidly than going to a 'generalist' that must replicate the learning curve taht the specialist already possesses.

There is an argument to be made both ways.

Indeed, I don't have any hard answers. Also, haha, if we wanted to answer this question we'd hire some people to look into it which is the specialist approach.

I am likely biased from the fact that I studied astrophysics, which has no direct industrial applications. The CCD and MOSFET technologies in most digitial cameras were first developed as methods of automating astronomical observatories and satellites, and eventually trickled out into industry, where they really took off. Similar things can be said in relation to particle physics and network routers. In general, it is very difficult to predict the fruits of scientific labor.
 

L Gilbert

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Nov 30, 2006
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The bad thing about contracting out is that consultants overcharge since they have to protect against their lack of job security. Strangely, even taking this into account, contracting out is often a cost saving measure...
Exactly my point. Scientists that contract out and overcharge are still cheaper than paying them salaries, benefits, pensions. Science isn't going anywhere, it's just shifting to a different chair.

Another problem with consultants is they tend to reinforce what they think their employers want to hear. Yes men and women.
Whether they work for the gov't or private.
Other times, management will hire consultants to make recommendations when they know full well that the decision will be hugely unpopular.
That, too.

Contracting science just seems like a bad idea. I believe most battery research in the world is somehow funded by 3M. Because of this we know how to make some really amazing lithium batteries and will soon run out of lithium. Breadth in science is often more valuable than depth, and nobody contracts out for breadth.
Matter cannot be created or destroyed (generally). Lithium isn't going anywhere, it's just going from a lithium electrolyte to a lithium compound.

Question is, how many scientists to they still have on their payroll? I suspect that they do and that they can still do the job - with technology being what it is now-a-days, I doubt if the 60 laid-off were really needed to begin with. But, could be wrong....

JMHO

oops, bloody typo's - get me every time lol
I can't find a list of full time personnel for the DFO Eastern maritimes division let alone Canad, but in a dinky little town of Summerland, BC (population of about 10K) when I was living in the Okanagan there was a research facility that employed 4 scientists and a bevy of other researchers full time. There may be many more by now.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
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Many years ago I was an activist of sorts for injured soldiers and even ended up on a CBC talk show to talk about the issues soldiers faced when running up against the bureaucracy of Veteran's Affairs. I ran a a monthly web based ezine that today might be called a blog and it caught the attention of all sorts of folks. Opposition members called from time to time on issues, but mostly soldiers called or emailed looking for help after being injured.

One group of Veterans advocates invited me to an informal meet and greet after a story hit the news that I helped break. A source had given me some names of people in the army's medical community who knew of or were involved in shredding medical documents. These documents may have proved useful for soldiers who might have later developed health issues.

At this informal meet I had a beer or two, but didn't get inebriated and discussion started in about securing government jobs within the system. Never being one to mince words I piped up and asked the soldier's sitting around that table, "Isn't that getting into bed with the guys who are F'ing us in the first place?"

As you can guess things were a little cooler in that room. Not long after there was a lot of mudslinging when my name came up and I was considered a troublemaker. I stayed the course and continued to help soldiers secure pensions and even enlisted the aid of a former VAC employee who was a great help at getting around obstacles.

In the end that group of soldiers also achieved their aim. Many of them were scooped up by the government and made employees to deal with the issues facing todays soldier. Somewhere along the line, during the previous Liberal government the Pension plan for veterans was changed from lifetime disability to lump sum payout. This new plan was adopted by the now serving Conservative government and the bureaucracy faced by injured soldiers has not changed, some would even argue that it is worse.

I walked away from being an activist around 2002 after getting tired of hearing what a troublemaker I was and how I was screwing it up for soldiers looking to secure government jobs. I have no regrets about the things I did, I helped a lot of injured soldiers and by extension their families, but those new Federal employees with whom I sat did nothing to improve the situation for their brothers in arms. In fact they feathered their own nests, increased bureaucracy and became a part of the dysfunctional system they proclaimed needed change.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Conspiracy theory for some with the inclination; are any of these jobs connected to Conservative claims to increase the environmental analysis of oil sand impacts?
 

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
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Matter cannot be created or destroyed (generally). Lithium isn't going anywhere, it's just going from a lithium electrolyte to a lithium compound.

The problem is that most of it is winding up in landfills which makes it incredibly expensive to reclaim. Also, there isn't enough lithium for everyone in the world to have lithium battery powered automobiles.
 

L Gilbert

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The problem is that most of it is winding up in landfills which makes it incredibly expensive to reclaim. Also, there isn't enough lithium for everyone in the world to have lithium battery powered automobiles.
I don't know about other areas, but near here is a place we can take stuff like old paint, old batteries and cells, and other such substances and items. If people want to ditch the crap in the dump instead and then whine about the prices of cells and batteries and whatnot, then they deserve what they get.
 

captain morgan

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There will always be conspiracy theories.


You do understand that by making that statement without engaging the secret handshake first, you are in direct violation of numerous secret covenants.

I may have to revoke membership RCS unless you can accurately interpret the following message:

"ThE wet Dog barKs AT thE dRy fire"

I'll wait whilst you dig out your special decoder ring.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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You do understand that by making that statement without engaging the secret handshake first, you are in direct violation of numerous secret covenants.

I may have to revoke membership RCS unless you can accurately interpret the following message:

"ThE wet Dog barKs AT thE dRy fire"

I'll wait whilst you dig out your special decoder ring.

The forum keeps a spare around for darkbeaver and stretch, RCS can borrow that one. :lol:
 

wizard

Time Out
Nov 18, 2011
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... scientists! ha! according to who? the canadian government?

... well, if those two environment canada folks who spy on my waterfront house in an inflatable zodiac like clockwork every two months are "scientists" i sure hope those two get laid off ...