Durban Climate Change Conference 2011

[captain morgan]

Yeah we might end up with a guy like Mugabe who sends his military in to kill people and remove them from lands to be designated as a "carbon sink"

Well, we are a carbon-based life form. Maybe Mugabe was being a little too literal in his 'carbon-capture-and -storage' policy.

Glad you support this measure.

The system in these countries is simply 'broken'. The support that is sent never makes it to the people on the ground. All of the funding likely ends up in a Swiss bank account.

 

[petros]

Why does everybody blame China? It's not China who shops at Dollararama or Wal*Mart.

Just think of how ****ty it would be here if we had all those factories built by Yank and Canuck companies.

 

[EagleSmack]

The policy will never work. The divide between the developed and non-developed nations in terms of the maturity of the industrial & resource sectors, along with the standard of living, wages, etc are opposing forces. Transferring funds to the non-developed nations will act only as a mass subsidy at the expense of the developed economies.
.

Not just that but there is no restrictions on what they do with the money when they get it. Anyone who thinks that if some under developed nation finds itself with an extra $50 Million that they are going to put it towards a windmill farm or solar energy is naive.

Right.

That's why they need to gradually invest in alternative technologies to remain successful in the long term.

Otherwise, if there is no development in this sector, the economy will collapse once the resource is gone.

How can we ensure that the money is invested correctly once they have it in hand?

India, China and some other developing countries ....

This is the biggest laugh. Truly it is. China will overtake the US as the biggest economy in less than 10 years.

How can they POSSIBLY be a developing country? Their economy dwarfes most so called "developed" nations yet they still get assigned this status.

Yeah we might end up with a guy like Mugabe who sends his military in to kill people and remove them from lands to be designated as a "carbon sink"

Right. You think Mugabe is going to use his cut on windmills? Weapons, Swiss Bank accounts, and indulgence... that is where that money is going.

Right.

That's why they need to gradually invest in alternative technologies to remain successful in the long term.

Otherwise, if there is no development in this sector, the economy will collapse once the resource is gone.

Like the US Govt. did with Solydra? That money is GONE. Spent and gone and they're bankrupt.



Or what my own Massachusetts State Government did with Evergreen Solar? $600K GONE. Of course our Governor said it was the right investment and he has no regrets. Losing $600K is the right investment?

 

[mentalfloss]

This is the biggest laugh. Truly it is. China will overtake the US as the biggest economy in less than 10 years.

I edited out China pretty quickly, but now I know you get e-mail updates.

China is in an interesting spot because they're only really pumping out the C02 now, whereas the U.S. and EU got away with it a long time earlier. They're also investing in other tech and taking a leadership role on that front.

That said, they will definitely be the #1 economy in a few years and should still be held accountable for their high emissions.

 

[Machjo]

It effects them the most yet they are not required to sign on or do cuts?

I am sure there will be some sort of photo-op treaty at the end of this. Probably as ineffective as the original if not moreso.

And lets stop calling China a developing nation. Its developed.

It's developing fast, but its per capita income is still quite low and there is still much, much poverty there. I've been there to see it.

 

[petros]

That said, they will definitely be the #1 economy in a few years and should still be held accountable for their high emissions.

Don't buy the goods made in US/CDN/Euro run Chinese factories.

 

[mentalfloss]

Don't buy the goods made in US/CDN/Euro run Chinese factories.

What about those X-mas gifts I get from our vendors that are made in china.

 

[EagleSmack]

I edited out China pretty quickly, but now I know you get e-mail updates.

I don't read the email updates. I delete them en masse.

China is in an interesting spot because they're only really pumping out the C02 now, whereas the U.S. and EU got away with it a long time earlier.

Oh so it's less harmful on the environment now because they just started?

They're also investing in other tech and taking a leadership role on that front.

Everyone else is investing too.

That said, they will definitely be the #1 economy in a few years and should still be held accountable for their high emissions.

You're right. Yet they still get a developing nation status? Why is that?

China being held accountable? By who? Do you think they care what the Climate Change governing body thinks? Heck no! That's why they get the developing nation status. They may as well b**** at a wall when it comes to China.

 

[TenPenny]

What about those X-mas gifts I get from our vendors that are made in china.

If you were responsible, you'd return them to the sender with an explanation.

Accepting them is condoning them.

 

[mentalfloss]

Oh so it's less harmful on the environment now because they just started?

It depends on how you want to look at it. If you want to compare total emissions by country since the industrial revolution began, China is not the highest even though they are now.

China being held accountable? By who? Do you think they care what the Climate Change governing body thinks? Heck no! That's why they get the developing nation status. They may as well b**** at a wall when it comes to China.

I never said they're climate darlings. As Durban has shown, no responsible country has taken a true leadership role.

 

[EagleSmack]

It's developing fast, but its per capita income is still quite low and there is still much, much poverty there. I've been there to see it.

Yes there is much poverty. However the treatment of its people should have no bearing on the power and development of the country itself. So yes, the common Chinese worker is underpaid, living below the standards of most Western counties. However the power of China as a nation is immense. They are incredibly powerful and as you can tell by their getting a "developing nation" status have great influence over this Climate Change movement.

When the US said "NO, not without China" at Copenhagen the outrage was all directed at the US. They do not dare make China upset.

 

[TenPenny]

As Durban has shown, no responsible country has taken a true leadership role.

Actually, Canada has, by saying that without China and India, it's a farce.

 

[EagleSmack]

It depends on how you want to look at it. If you want to compare total emissions by country since the industrial revolution began, China is not the highest even though they are now.

You know this made me smile. So we are going to ignore their output today because of what they didn't do at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution?

Does their late start make their emissions less harmful?

Now do you see how much influence China has over the Climate Change Movement?

Actually, Canada has, by saying that without China and India, it's a farce.

I was going to add that and I agree. Canada really shook them up and good for Canada. Everyone expects the Yanks to tell them to screw but not Canada.

The only thing that would have made it better is if the Canadian delegation pulled their sweaters over the heads of the Climate Change Board people and started giving them uppercuts.

 

[ironsides]

If we let global change warming climate happen and let the polar bears drown, Canadians won't have to consume 44% of their energy for keeping alive in winter.

We cannot stop Global Change warming, so start buying waterfront on Hudson's Bay. We are already warming up unless something else happens to change it.

 

[mentalfloss]

Actually, Canada has, by saying that without China and India, it's a farce.

On a global scale, people have been saying that not having China, India or the U.S. is detrimental to a significant binding agreement since Copenhagen.

This isn't something initiated by Canada.

 

[Goober]

On a global scale, people have been saying that not having China, India or the U.S. is detrimental to a significant binding agreement since Copenhagen.

This isn't something initiated by Canada.

Saying it is one thing, words and more words, withdrawing is an action.

 

[mentalfloss]

Saying it is one thing, words and more words, withdrawing is an action.

Withdrawing did not get rid of Kyoto, and those countries participating will maintain their commitments.

You know this made me smile. So we are going to ignore their output today because of what they didn't do at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution?

Does their late start make their emissions less harmful?

To some degree, it does. It depends on the numbers.

 

[Goober]

Withdrawing did not get rid of Kyoto, and those countries participating will maintain their commitments.



To some degree, it does. It depends on the numbers.

The weak commitments for 2015 are what will make or break. If Canada did not withdraw and failed to meet commitments were there not financial penalties that would have applied?

 

[TenPenny]

Withdrawing did not get rid of Kyoto, and those countries participating will maintain their commitments.

Ah, so protesting accomplishes nothing, by which I assume you are against protesting of any kind. Submission at all times.

 

[mentalfloss]

The weak commitments for 2015 are what will make or break. If Canada did not withdraw and failed to meet commitments were there not financial penalties that would have applied?

I'm not sure. We apparently still have to report our numbers even if we pull out. There is some legislative stuff that may apply, but I haven't read through it yet..

Canada's Kyoto pullout: Government may still have legal mandate to follow accord, Environment Commissioner says | News | National Post

If you want an objective look at this situation, just watch this vid:

Canada withdrawing from Kyoto Protocol, reneges on climate change accord - YouTube