Don't mess with Texas Grandmas

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Relax, Rev.

Take a valium. Been reading your posts. You're getting more wound up than I do.....and that can't be good.

You're right about Thompson.
 

GL Schmitt

Electoral Member
Mar 12, 2005
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Re: RE: Don't mess with Texas Grandmas

Colpy said:
Relax, Rev.

Take a valium. Been reading your posts. You're getting more wound up than I do.....
Forget the Valium.

My diagnosis is that the Rev should stop trying to make gun nuts see the light.

Light only enters a gun nut's head via an aperture blown through the boney structure.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Don't mess with Texas

That's very true GL.

I do find it rather hilarious that a CPC spinner is telling me to relax for answering his questions though.

Are you coing tyo hang around after the election, Colpy, or does your assignment end when Harper's concession speech is done?
 

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
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Its hard to believe that any Maritimer would fall for their line. I'm still smarting from their lazy,welfare bums statement they made about us :x
 

Colpy

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"Light only enters a gun nut's head via an aperture blown through the boney structure"

That's right Schmitt. Those who believe there is a right to keep and bear arms are morons. You know, guys like William Blackstone, John Locke, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Theodore Roosevelt,.............idiots all.

Ever hear of any of them?
 

Colpy

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Re: RE: Don't mess with Texas

Reverend Blair said:
That's very true GL.

I do find it rather hilarious that a CPC spinner is telling me to relax for answering his questions though.

Are you coing tyo hang around after the election, Colpy, or does your assignment end when Harper's concession speech is done?

No offense intended, Rev.

And Yeah, I will be here shinning rays of enlightenment through the fog of your ignorance (arrogance?) long after the election is over.

Somebody has to challenge you guys.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Why find new issues when we aren't done with the old ones? The left is still draging old issues around the block.
 

GL Schmitt

Electoral Member
Mar 12, 2005
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Re: RE: Don't mess with Texas Grandmas

Colpy said:
. . . Those who believe there is a right to keep and bear arms are morons. You know, guys like William Blackstone, John Locke, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Theodore Roosevelt,...
If a single one of that list (with only the possible exception of Theodore Roosevelt, who was actually alive to see one) advocated keeping a semi automatic pistol in the house, I shall eat a copy of their Collected Works, without Thousand Island Dressing.

With the possible exception of Thomas Jefferson, who mistakenly believed that invading Canada was "merely a matter of walking" I am surprised at your choices of presidents to champion gun rights.

Madison is known as the president in office during a war who abandoned the city so precipitously that he left his wife and property behind. (As someone who stood up to gun-toting rascals, Dolley Madison would have been a better choice, not only standing up to the Redcoats, but also saving a painting of George Washington before the White House was torched.)

While Teddy did make his famous charge (up Kettle Hill, not San Jaun Hill) with his Rough Riders, as a Republican president, he was more famous for his conservationist movement, and his “trust-busting,” and rooting out of corruption and “machine politics.”

Nothing much for a Bushie to admire, but he is the hero of John McCain.
 

Colpy

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Re: RE: Don't mess with Texas Grandmas

GL Schmitt said:
Colpy said:
. . . Those who believe there is a right to keep and bear arms are morons. You know, guys like William Blackstone, John Locke, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Theodore Roosevelt,...
If a single one of that list (with only the possible exception of Theodore Roosevelt, who was actually alive to see one) advocated keeping a semi automatic pistol in the house, I shall eat a copy of their Collected Works, without Thousand Island Dressing.

With the possible exception of Thomas Jefferson, who mistakenly believed that invading Canada was "merely a matter of walking" I am surprised at your choices of presidents to champion gun rights.

Madison is known as the president in office during a war who abandoned the city so precipitously that he left his wife and property behind. (As someone who stood up to gun-toting rascals, Dolley Madison would have been a better choice, not only standing up to the Redcoats, but also saving a painting of George Washington before the White House was torched.)

While Teddy did make his famous charge (up Kettle Hill, not San Jaun Hill) with his Rough Riders, as a Republican president, he was more famous for his conservationist movement, and his “trust-busting,” and rooting out of corruption and “machine politics.”

Nothing much for a Bushie to admire, but he is the hero of John McCain.

Teddy is a hero of mine, as well. He was also a hard-core hunter and shooter, wrote (I think) 17 books on subjects as diverse as biology and naval history, kept a huge library, of which he had read every book, and God would there ever be a bunch of dead Islamists if he were running the country.

He would have taken Baghdad, split his forces, had one half turn left for Damascus, and the other turn right for Tehran.

And TO HELL with what anybody thought.

Teddy was a scrapper.

If you are really interested in Teddy, the book to get is "The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt" by Edmund Morris. It is followed by "Theodore Rex" by the same author. There was supposed to be a third, but I have never found it.

Fascinating man. They don't make them like that anymore.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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I have mixed feelingsabout this one.

We now have the advantage of 20-20 hindsight. That is, we know what the results are. I think it would have been in the woman's best interests if she had shot the man two or three times in the upper body. If he had gotten the gun away from her he might have used it on both her and her daughter.
 

Colpy

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Now, back to the issue at hand Schmitt:

I assume your argument is that the right to keep and bear arms includes only those arms in existence when that right is written down.

We will, for the moment, ignore the fact that the right to keep and bear arms existed long before it was first put down in ink.

If rights only pertain to those instruments that exist at the moment they are enshrined, then there exists no right to free speech on any electronic medium. You only have the right to worship in churches that existed in 1785. For that matter, there is no right to free speech in printed form either, as the printing press has changed more than firearms since 1785.
 

GL Schmitt

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Mar 12, 2005
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Re: RE: Don't mess with Texas Grandmas

Colpy said:
Now, back to the issue at hand Schmitt
Save your legalistic rhetoric, Colpy, I am not debating your legal rights to guns. In a free society a country can pass a plebiscite which repeals the law of gravity. (See current “Intelligent Design” activism.)

Historically, the Founding Fathers had little idea that the country they were founding would last twenty-five decades. I believe several doubted it would last a single decade. It was an experiment, and they did their best to increase its longevity.

When one considers that, with the possible exception of descriptions of Athens, they had no civilized model, and built their political engine from the pieces laying about: English common law, as it was supposed to work, both the philosophy and the pragmatism of the best minds of the enlightenment, and in part from the model of the Iroquois League Constitution (aka Haudenosaunee, the League of Peace and Power, or the Six Nations).

They did better than they expected, better than anyone had a right to expect. Except for the blindness about slavery and native peoples, the machine required only an occasional adjustment to adapt for modern innovation.

The Amendment not only allowing, but requiring citizens to own and maintain their abilities with firearms made perfect sense, at a time when one man with one musket could, with intense practise, load and fire three to four shots a minute, and their former masters, the British, only a few hundred miles away, had many of the best known for their abilities at amassing a huge phalanx of men to maneuverer and shoot in unison.

It was only through the use of superior rifles (with further range) and the colonials’ ability at the new art of guerrilla fighting, that had allowed them to exist through the early months of the war.

Britain was already experimenting with Light Infantry, to develop the style of fighting they had met within America.

With such a foe on the continent, the cautionary injunction to keep your rifle skills well honed only made sense.

But Britain got involved with another war in Europe that lasted a quarter century. Except for a minor border skirmish (relatively speaking) which the Americans instituted, the British threat never materialized.

My claim is that if those pragmatic Founding Fathers had been shown rifles and handguns that could by themselves duplicate – or better – the firepower of an entire regiment.

If they were told that these weapons would be available at a time when there was no threat of any land force attacking their country, and that every government – including their own – had weapons which not even a regiment of such gunmen could withstand, it would have given them pause.

They would immediately realize that no hunter required such a weapon, and that the only excuse for owning such a weapon was to oppose the laws of the land with impunity.

It may have taken considerable discussion to convince them that in the future some people would want to own such weapons for the simple recreational thrill of controlling such a death-dealing instrument, and would probably not, in themselves, represent, or come to represent, any threat to the peace of the community.

In spite of the latter, and in recognition of the Founding Fathers’ penchant for giving preference to freedom from authority over the sensible regulation of society, I still feel confident that the First Amendment would have taken a somewhat different form.
 

Colpy

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Hey, well written!

Some criticism, though. It is the Second Amendment, not the First we are arguing.

The Second Amendment has NOTHING to do with hunting .

Thomas Jefferson was in France during the creation of the Bill of Rights, but he was in constant contact with Madison, and his views, so well expressed, can be said to be the views of those who wrote the Second Amendment......

."A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independence to the mind........ Let your gun therefore by the constant companion of your walks."


The argument that these men did not realize the down side to the right is belied by Jefferson's letter to his nephew;

".... never entering into dispute or argument with another. I never saw an instance of one of two disputants convincing the other by argument. I have seen many, on their getting warm, becoming rude, & shooting one another."

Jefferson understood very well what he was proposing....

"The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people;… that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed…"

I strongly disagree, in light of these statements and others, that the Second Amendment would have been different.

Remember, these men feared, above all, an all-powerful state. The Second Amendment exists to allow a state of rebellion. It places the instruments of power securely in the hands of the people, where they belong.
 

Colpy

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Here's some more for you, Schmitt

"They that can give up liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

"(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -James Madison.

"(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -James Madison.

"(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -James Madison.

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria.

"...arms...discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. ...Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them." -Thomas Paine.

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson, Bill for the More General diffusion of Knowledge (1778).

"To disarm the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them..." -George Mason,

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined...The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.: -Patrick Henry.

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." -Tench Coxe, Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution, under the pseudonym "A Pennsylvanian" in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1989 at col. 1.
 

Ten Packs

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Nov 21, 2004
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Re: RE: Don't mess with Texas

Reverend Blair said:
The man was hiding in a closet. There is no indication that he was at all violent or that he was even going to steal from the home. He was HIDING. He was reaching for the gun that was BEING POINTED AT HIM and the front door at the same time. He was TRYING to get AWAY.

You guys likely laugh when you hear about cops firing warning shots into peoples' backs too.

This is a new high, even for you, Rev! He was "hiding" - in SOMEONE ELSE's closet, in SOMEONE ELSE'S house, which he had gained FORCIBLE ENTRY to..... Lord, I hope you never get broke into - you'll probaably get Patti to rustle him up some bacon and eggs.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

Colpy

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Yeah, I been meaning to ask.....what the Hell is this "retreat" thing?

If you are in my house without invitation, you had best be doing the retreating, and damned fast.