Don't mess with Texas Grandmas

[unclepercy]

Re: RE: Don't mess with Texas

The man was hiding in a closet. There is no indication that he was at all violent or that he was even going to steal from the home. He was HIDING. He was reaching for the gun that was BEING POINTED AT HIM and the front door at the same time. He was TRYING to get AWAY.

You guys likely laugh when you hear about cops firing warning shots into peoples' backs too.

Rev, knowing that most homes in the southern US are equipped with guns, virtually eliminating home invasions ... what was this guy thinking, that he could just escape from police and run into a house and he'll be left alone? Did he have a death wish? It appeared to me he did. He had no business on that lady's property, the minute she saw this criminal in her home, she had two valid reasons for shooting ... first to defend herself (she is elderly), second, to protect her home.

We need to stay tough on criminals! I don't want the south turning into New York/Chicago/LA where folks are scared of criminals. Here it's the other way around.

James! You are overlooking the most important reason of all: her granddaughter. She got a gun to protect them, took shooting lessons, had a permit. I don't know about you, but I'd be thinking about that little girl upstairs.

Uncle

 

[Reverend Blair]

The gun was the one she keeps to scare away coyotes. She said she keeps the .38-caliber handgun loaded with hollow-point bullets.

She got a gun to scare away coyotes. Nevermind that a .38 handgun is a stupid thing to buy for such a purpose or that she loaded it with hollowpoints. She said she got the gun to scare away coyotes.

She shot a man at short range with it. Have you ever seen the damage that a hollow point bullet does? It mushrooms out at impact to create the maximum amount of damage. Those who respect the animals they shoot at do not use hollow points because they cause so much damage.

So is this psycho-granny who wanted to torture coyotes or is she lying about the reason she bought the gun and loaded it with those bullets?

 

[Canucklehead]

Susan Gaylord Buxton is a hero, no doubt about it.

This guy was fleeing from the police, that is why he was stupid enough to hide in a Texas home. Home invasions in the south are far and few considering the chances of the criminal getting shot are pretty good.

A hero? Oh please... that word seems to get tossed about like a ragdoll . Someone shooting another is not a heroic act, it's an act of self preservation, at best.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Don't mess with Texas

Heroes don't torture coyotes.

 

[Colpy]

The unnecessary risk this lady took was in trying to shoot the guy in the leg. I don't care if you're Annie Oakley, trying for non-lethal hits in a shooting situation is a very risky business.

In training, we are taught to shoot "to stop". In other words, your goal in shooting an attacker is to stop them attacking you, or carrying on with their nefarious activities. Their death or survival is NOT your concern.

That means you shoot "centre mass", or at the centre of the chest. Lately criminals have been using bullet proof vests in armoured car robberies, so our drill has changed to two quick shots centre mass, one shot at the head.

The responsibility for their own death or injury lies with the one that perpetrated the crime. I never want to shoot anybody, and I have no idea what my reaction to shooting a person would be, probably there would be guilt and regret.

But, philosophically, there is no reason for regret. The criminal is responsible for their actions, and getting their asses blasted is a direct result of their actions. Or should be..

If we continue in the current direction of blaming the victim, and wringing our hands over the fact that a criminal might be harmed, we might just as well empty out the prisons of criminals and move in ourselves, for our own protection.

 

[peapod]

Funny innit?? how anybody that kills or trys to kill somebody else is alway a hero to nascar..no cunning or logic...just dick waving... :sleepy2:

 

[Colpy]

The gun was the one she keeps to scare away coyotes. She said she keeps the .38-caliber handgun loaded with hollow-point bullets.

She got a gun to scare away coyotes. Nevermind that a .38 handgun is a stupid thing to buy for such a purpose or that she loaded it with hollowpoints. She said she got the gun to scare away coyotes.

She shot a man at short range with it. Have you ever seen the damage that a hollow point bullet does? It mushrooms out at impact to create the maximum amount of damage. Those who respect the animals they shoot at do not use hollow points because they cause so much damage.

So is this psycho-granny who wanted to torture coyotes or is she lying about the reason she bought the gun and loaded it with those bullets?

Rev, no disrespect meant, but this post proves conclusively that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Pistols are not very powerful. For instance, the .38 she used, with the best ammunition might have generated about 300 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle. To compare, a .30-30 rifle generates 1800 ft/lbs at muzzle, a 12 guage shotgun 2400, a 30-06 close to 3000 ft/lbs at muzzle.

The very best hollow point bullets are necessary to maximize damage done in such a low powered weapon. If one was to shoot coyotes with a .38, one SHOULD use hollow points. If you are going to kill an animal, your responsibility is to do it as quickly as possible, causing as little pain as possible. Quick death is caused by as much damage as you can do. Using hollow points is not torturing, it is just the opposite.

Hollow point bullets for RIFLES, on the other hand, are NOT built to expand. They are long range target bullets. They are hollow pointed only to increase the lenth/weight ratio and to move the centre of gravity to the rear of the bullet to stabilize it in flight. They are NOT made to be shot at game, because they will not expand, and therefore they would NOT do the extensive
damage necessary to kill the animal quickly.

 

[GL Schmitt]

Re: RE: Don't mess with Texas

A stranger being unlawfully present in a civilian's home hiding in a closet is a serious crime with usual intent of either robbery or to hurt or kill the homeowner. This justifies "by law" using force to stop the criminal.

I don't buy it, but okay.

Here, watch ... I’m drinking your Kool-Ade.

See? I now believe Gunslinger Granny should receive a medal for meritorious citizenship.

But, I still must insist that by following to fire another shot at him while he was retreating across her lawn does not qualify as self-defence.

The kindest interpretation would be “contagious gunfire,” except I’m not certain the gunfire is still “contagious” after the target has removed the inferred threat by retreating.

Gunslinger Granny and her medal of honour should now be slung into jail for "reckless endangerment."

(Not just of the burglar, but anybody standing beyond him when she fired the second time, and missed.)

Edited for Colpy:

It isn’t the length of the barrel, or even the calibre of the slug, which determines the velocity of the of the bullet and its impact, but rather the amount and volatility of the gunpowder in the cartridge.

In any case, Rev was talking about the construction of the slug. A hollow-point bullet, upon impact, flattens and spreads into a sharp-edge irregular-shaped projectile which spawls through the body tearing a large, irregular passage.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I'm fully aware of what hollow points do and what they're for, Colpy. I'm also fully aware that a coyote is most likely to be shot in the hindquarters and suffer a lot more from a hollow point than from a regular bullet. They often recover on their own from .22 rounds.

Nobody was comparing a .38 handgun to a 30.30 rifle, by the way. I mentioned a .22 (aimed over their heads), a BB gun, and a 9/16's wrench. I've used all of those things to scare off coyotes.

My reason for why hunters don't use hollow points is accurate as well. They do expand when they hit game and they do a massive amount of damage, especially at long range. Do they expand when you shoot a paper target? Likely not, but I don't know anybody who hunts paper targets with a deer rifle.

 

[yballa09]

I think what she did in her house was fine. How did she know the guy was trying to evade being arrested? For all she knew he was hiding in her closet to rape, kill or rob her. And she didnt shoot him right away, she told him to leave. Contrary to what you said Rev, if i had a gun pointed at me and the person told me to get off her property, i wuldnt try to wrestle the gun away from her, I'd get out of her house as fast as possible! Then only after he failed to get the gun from her did she shoot him in the leg. The only part i dont necessarily condone would be the shot fired when he was running across her lawn, but then again, with the adrenaline rush in a situation like that people can sometimes do stupid things.

I'm not for the easy accesibility of guns in the US, and much prefer the laws here in Canada, but if I had a gun and was in that situation i dont think i would have done much different to what she did. I wouldnt call her a hero, but in no way can you fault her for what she did.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Don't mess with Texas

It sounds a lot like he was trying to grab or possibly swat at the gun while reaching for the doorknob, yballa. That's the kind of thing that leads to what they call defensive wounds on all of those coroner shows.

Consider the position he was in...she had him cornered in a closet.

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Don't mess with Texas

The man was hiding in a closet. There is no indication that he was at all violent or that he was even going to steal from the home. He was HIDING. He was reaching for the gun that was BEING POINTED AT HIM and the front door at the same time. He was TRYING to get AWAY.

You guys likely laugh when you hear about cops firing warning shots into peoples' backs too.

Rev, knowing that most homes in the southern US are equipped with guns, virtually eliminating home invasions ... what was this guy thinking, that he could just escape from police and run into a house and he'll be left alone? Did he have a death wish? It appeared to me he did. He had no business on that lady's property, the minute she saw this criminal in her home, she had two valid reasons for shooting ... first to defend herself (she is elderly), second, to protect her home.

We need to stay tough on criminals! I don't want the south turning into New York/Chicago/LA where folks are scared of criminals. Here it's the other way around.

James! You are overlooking the most important reason of all: her granddaughter. She got a gun to protect them, took shooting lessons, had a permit. I don't know about you, but I'd be thinking about that little girl upstairs.

Uncle

Absolutely, Uncle. It had slipped my mind. Protecting her granddaughter was indeed her highest priority (as it should be). The fact a young child was inside the home, makes the situation all the more serious.

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Don't mess with Texas Grandmas

The unnecessary risk this lady took was in trying to shoot the guy in the leg. I don't care if you're Annie Oakley, trying for non-lethal hits in a shooting situation is a very risky business.

In training, we are taught to shoot "to stop". In other words, your goal in shooting an attacker is to stop them attacking you, or carrying on with their nefarious activities. Their death or survival is NOT your concern.

That means you shoot "centre mass", or at the centre of the chest. Lately criminals have been using bullet proof vests in armoured car robberies, so our drill has changed to two quick shots centre mass, one shot at the head.

The responsibility for their own death or injury lies with the one that perpetrated the crime. I never want to shoot anybody, and I have no idea what my reaction to shooting a person would be, probably there would be guilt and regret.

But, philosophically, there is no reason for regret. The criminal is responsible for their actions, and getting their asses blasted is a direct result of their actions. Or should be..

If we continue in the current direction of blaming the victim, and wringing our hands over the fact that a criminal might be harmed, we might just as well empty out the prisons of criminals and move in ourselves, for our own protection.

Absolutely, excellent points Colpy. We must never have laws that allow the criminal more rights than the law abiding.

 

[yballa09]

It sounds a lot like he was trying to grab or possibly swat at the gun while reaching for the doorknob, yballa. That's the kind of thing that leads to what they call defensive wounds on all of those coroner shows.

Fair enough. But you never know what he would have done if he got the gun away from her. The situation could have been a lot worse then what actually occurred, and i think it would be safe for us to be more worried about the elderly women then the man running from the police.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Don't mess with Texas

And she could have taken a step or too back and sent him on his way.

If he had gotten the gun away from her and shot her, it would match a lot of statistics. Introducing a gun into such a situation makes it inherently more dangerous not just for the crminal, but for the victim.

 

[yballa09]

Totally agree. I think the second amendment is a joke and there need to be much stricter laws against gun use. It's pretty simple logic. I'd feel much safer if everyone in my neighborhood didn't have a gun then if they did.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Don't mess with Texas

And she could have taken a step or too back and sent him on his way.

If he had gotten the gun away from her and shot her, it would match a lot of statistics. Introducing a gun into such a situation makes it inherently more dangerous not just for the crminal, but for the victim.

For God's sake Rev.....google Gary Kleck and read him.

You are 180 degrees wrong on this.

Firearms are used defensively TWO AND ONE HALF MILLION times a year in the USA.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Don't mess with Texas

...and the CDC keeps stats on how many are murdered each year, Colpy. It's so bad that they treat it like a disease.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Don't mess with Texas

...and the CDC keeps stats on how many are murdered each year, Colpy. It's so bad that they treat it like a disease.

I gotta ask you again...........doesn't the Hunter S. Thompson icon, to say nothing of your signature, sort of belie your anti-gun stance.

Thompson was a shooting NUT to the core. It is amazing he never killed anyone.

As for your refusal to deal with Kleck, none are so blind as those who will not see.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Don't mess with Texas

He did kill someone...himself.

Is there a law somewhere that says I have to agree with everything Thompson ever said?