Does Canada spend too little on defence?

[Ocean Breeze]

FX : of course security is important. But I also think that all kinds of securty measures must be employed.......not just "military" New methodology must be explored.....etc. We are living in a hi tech age........lets work to advance non traditional means of security.

again......brain power over muscle.


reality is.......that if someone wants to attack , they will. These blokes will find a way. The idea is not to give them the motivation or incentive. Terrorist attacks can be deterred by using a lot more psychology and understanding their motives , etc. Othewise, it is just attack , counter attack.....and the cycle of violence is perpetuated.

SMART strategy is called for......(with military as backup)

The role of the military must be adapted to the current issues , as things are not what they were 60 yrs ago.

 

[Reverend Blair]

That's a far cry from saying we should assist elsewhere in the world. You'd disdainly dismiss the west - the part of the world that puts food on our table - so we can embark on a quixotic journey into the third world, where we have no history, where we have no ties and where we have no economic interests.

Read what I wrote. I said "entire world." Last time I checked the west was part of the "entire world." Since I live in the west, I likely would have noticed if they hooked us up to a giant space barge and yanked us out of the "entire world."

Games of economic exclusivity...the same games you are playing when you suggest that our sole motivation should be trade and profit...are the root cause of so many of the problems that the non-western/non-northern world is experiencing that we ignore them at our own peril. I'd appreciate it if you guys would finally look around around long enough to quit imperiling the rest of us, thanks.

 

[I think not]

What amazes me Ocaen is that Canadians, including many on this board, have claimed they know Americans better than ourselves.

You say we live in fear? Two days after September 11th, everyone was back to work, going on with their lives.

You should stop paying attention to media outlets, media sells what you want to hear, otherwise they are out of business.

As far as military buildup Brains vs. Braun, I agree with you whole heartedly. Diplomacy should be key in staving off disaster.

And what happens when diplomacy fails? Or has it never failed?
What then? Who is going to intervene? Canada? France? Great Britain? Who?

The world has changed, you are right, new technology exists, how does new technology avert wars?

Canada has no enemies and this is apparently true, and of course the US has more, because the US gets more involved for better or for worse.

Here's an idea, take an initiative in helping the Israeli Palestenian peace process, you do not require any troops, only diplomats. Show a new face in the Middle East, it may exactly work, A fresh face in diplomatic efforts. Why don't you do that? Its simple. Nobody cares in the world strong enough to do anything.

There are always questions, but I never hear any solutions.

Thats called backseat criticism.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

What amazes me Ocaen is that Canadians, including many on this board, have claimed they know Americans better than ourselves.

Don't think any such claim is made.......and if so,not seriously.

I DO think however.......that being outside the US offers a more objective perspective. Sure some of us can be a tad emphatic about some of the actions of the USG.......as the reality is that they are truly questionable. The fact remains , that most nations know more about the US than the US knows about other nations.

(heck , I have heard Americans describe living conditions in CA as "living in igloos" & travelling via canoe. Fair enough.......in many ways , the less they know the better. :wink: Far be it for me or anyone to show them different. If they want to know more.....they can express some genuine interest.

re: US involvement.....for better or worse. There is much wisdom and merit to be cautious as to how one involves himself and how much one interferes in places that are none of one's business. An offer of assistance is fantastic...... if done diplomatically with respect so as not to make someone else feel obligated or inferior. No nation and no person appreciates being treated like an incompetant. It is bad for moral.

some sensitivity goes a long way. But sensitivity , is not something the US(G) is all that good at. It is more inclined to threaten or provide "conditions" that might be met or might not be. And NO ONE enjoys the feeling of "obligation".

but , the US has a certain pattern of behavior that might be hard to change. It definately has its own perspective on things.....and whether that perpective has anything to do with reality is sometimes questionable.

 

[I think not]

What amazes me Ocaen is that Canadians, including many on this board, have claimed they know Americans better than ourselves.

Don't think any such claim is made.......and if so,not seriously.

Ask Peapod, she'll tell you is she is serious or not.

I DO think however.......that being outside the US offers a more objective perspective. Sure some of us can be a tad emphatic about some of the actions of the USG.......as the reality is that they are truly questionable.

Question, have you ever visited the US and have you seen anything remotely of what you claim?

re: US involvement.....for better or worse. There is much wisdom and merit to be cautious as to how one involves himself and how much one interferes in places that are none of one's business. An offer of assistance is fantastic...... if done diplomatically with respect so as not to make someone else feel obligated or inferior. No nation and no person appreciates being treated like an incompetant. It is bad for moral.

It also creates death. Can you tell me what happens when dimplomacy fails?

some sensitivity goes a long way. But sensitivity , is not something the US(G) is all that good at. It is more inclined to threaten or provide "conditions" that might be met or might not be. And NO ONE enjoys the feeling of "obligation".

but , the US has a certain pattern of behavior that might be hard to change. It definately has its own perspective on things.....and whether that perpective has anything to do with reality is sometimes questionable.

Of course its questionable and should be, by us and by others. So I have a question for you, lets assume for a moment the Us follows isolasionist policies. I'm not speaking of trade. Who would you prefer should "take over"?

 

[Toro]

That's a far cry from saying we should assist elsewhere in the world. You'd disdainly dismiss the west - the part of the world that puts food on our table - so we can embark on a quixotic journey into the third world, where we have no history, where we have no ties and where we have no economic interests.

Read what I wrote. I said "entire world." Last time I checked the west was part of the "entire world." Since I live in the west, I likely would have noticed if they hooked us up to a giant space barge and yanked us out of the "entire world."

Then why shouldn't we give a "rat's ass" about what the west thinks then? We have to take care of our own first. The rest of the world is not on par with the west to Canada.

Games of economic exclusivity...the same games you are playing when you suggest that our sole motivation should be trade and profit...are the root cause of so many of the problems that the non-western/non-northern world is experiencing that we ignore them at our own peril. I'd appreciate it if you guys would finally look around around long enough to quit imperiling the rest of us, thanks.

I never said the sole movitivation should be trade and profit. But the problem with "you guys" is that you blame the system that lifts people out of poverty. We should be trading and investing more with the rest of the world. If you want Canada to get more involved with other places, that's the best way.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Question, have you ever visited the US and have you seen anything remotely of what you claim?

are you serious????? Of course , not only visited the US ......and covered most of the States. But I also have FAMILY there. (covering a number states too) The only place I have not been is NY..... and now have no desire to go there. A weekend jaunt to S.Tahoe was nothing. But am partial to San Francisco. Loved New Orleans too. Have not been States side since bush took office and don't plan to go back for some time. Am enjoying travels to Europe now.

How extensive is your travel of Canada??

 

[Ocean Breeze]

So I have a question for you, lets assume for a moment the Us follows isolasionist policies. I'm not speaking of trade. Who would you prefer should "take over

NO ONE. ......and the void could be filled by a well functioning INTERNATIONAL agency. with strict international laws.....where all nations partake, and assist each other.......and get away from the power struggle factor.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Can you tell me what happens when dimplomacy fails?

true diplomacy does not 'fail'.......it just takes a lot of skillfull handling , tact, patience and time. There might be a lull.....when both parties need to stop and think things through a bit more......and then get back to the table of discussions.


If it "fails" then, the people are not doing their job effectively.

 

[Toro]

So I have a question for you, lets assume for a moment the Us follows isolasionist policies. I'm not speaking of trade. Who would you prefer should "take over

NO ONE. ......and the void could be filled by a well functioning INTERNATIONAL agency. with strict international laws.....where all nations partake, and assist each other.......and get away from the power struggle factor.

A noble goal but how is it in the interests of the United States to cede its sovereignty to an international agency?

I also think part of the American's argument is that the UN is not a well-functioning international agency.

 

[peapod]

"Ask Peapod, she'll tell you is she is serious or not."

I am sick of your crap think! First the rev is a liar...no proof, just throw it out there, now you post this...I would like you to back that up, or are you just good at posting something and running away.
Well toro, than if america thinks the UN does not work, their answer is to drop cookie cutter bombs on people. Guess that works until you get on the ground eh?

 

[missile]

I like the idea of No Borders between the US,Canada and Mexico that was sort of debated last night on CNN, and defense would be extended all around the Americas. As I say this,tho,I have to doubt the US would let us keep sovereignty of our own country & would just take us over entirely.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

A noble goal but how is it in the interests of the United States to cede its sovereignty to an international agency

who would be asking it to.?? Not anymore than any other nation should. Isn't it time to reprogram the thinking into : what is best for the world instead of always "what is best for the US"??

Amazingly, the US is not the only nation on this planet. But it is certainly the most self centered. (sadly)

 

[ottawabill]

RE: Does Canada spend too

Our defense of this country is pathetic!! Not our Soliders but rather waht they can do with what they are given. Based on what they are given they do an excellent job..We have commanded great respect from U.S. army in Afganistan for our "just do it" attitude.

Canadians forget we do have enemies, war is not over, and if you show no defence there is someone out there to take advantage of this.

As shown on a CBC news...yes I do watch it sometimes (see cbc bias thread) our Military can't operate in the North, we don't have the equipment, If we are in afganistan we can not afford to be anywhere else. We continually send the same Boys and girls back to Afganistan cause we don't have the personel.

We don't need or want to be a military power but my god we can't wait for the big brothers south of us to come to our rescue constantely..The way we've been acting I'm not sure they will come anyways.

 

[I think not]

"Ask Peapod, she'll tell you is she is serious or not."

I am sick of your crap think! First the rev is a liar...no proof, just throw it out there, now you post this...I would like you to back that up, or are you just good at posting something and running away. Well toro, than if america thinks the UN does not work, their answer is to drop cookie cutter bombs on people. Guess that works until you get on the ground eh?

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=78743&highlight=#78743

I don't really agree with that statement bluealberta. I think alot of canadians know alot more about the US than their own citizens, especially their history. The present may be most unattractive, but their past is rich and interesting.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Does Canada spend too

Our defense of this country is pathetic!! Not our Soliders but rather waht they can do with what they are given. Based on what they are given they do an excellent job..We have commanded great respect from U.S. army in Afganistan for our "just do it" attitude.

This is very accurate, I have read many US Army officials say that Canadian soldiers are amongst the best trained, and have no problem fighting side to side.

Canadians forget we do have enemies, war is not over, and if you show no defence there is someone out there to take advantage of this.

I don't think you have enemies in the conventional sense.

As shown on a CBC news...yes I do watch it sometimes (see cbc bias thread) our Military can't operate in the North, we don't have the equipment, If we are in afganistan we can not afford to be anywhere else. We continually send the same Boys and girls back to Afganistan cause we don't have the personel.

I have also read you have no equipment, to get wher eyou need to go, you hitch rides on military transport planes from other countries.

We don't need or want to be a military power but my god we can't wait for the big brothers south of us to come to our rescue constantely..The way we've been acting I'm not sure they will come anyways.

Even if you increase your spending to $13 billion, it won't do you any good, you need to up that considerably

 

[ottawabill]

RE: Does Canada spend too

Tell me about it. You know I live in likely the only socially conservative pocket of Ontario (eastern south of Ottawa)

We have trucks go by often with support our troups ribbons on them..Enough of the kids in our area are in the Armed Forces and we are in Afganistan...You know where they go to get a ribbon? Ogdensburg N.Y... That says it all to the nature in this country. I'll bet a good portion of Canadains don't even know we are deployed!!

I go to upstate New York and there are stickers and banners supporting troups all over..This is in an area where most people don't think the U.S. should be in Iraq..but since they are their the kids get full support and wishes to come back home....We (Canada) just forget them or make statements like army personel are war like and I don't agree with there actions...You try to fund a military when that is the attitude?

I agree we don't have a tangible enemy but if your not perpared they will find you... Somewho Canadains think everyone loves us and no one cares to see harm come to us..therefore why be perpared..just dumb!!!

 

[Twila]

RE: Does Canada spend too

Sure the attack on Yellowknife is remote, but no more remote than an attack on Idaho, Maine or other less prominent areas of the US.

I think the weather makes it completely different. I dont believe it gets to -40 in Idaho.......at -40 you can't sweat without dying.....

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Does Canada spend too

Sure the attack on Yellowknife is remote, but no more remote than an attack on Idaho, Maine or other less prominent areas of the US.

I think the weather makes it completely different. I dont believe it gets to -40 in Idaho.......at -40 you can't sweat without dying.....

I think alot of us need to see the bigger picture.

Scenario:

US and Canada boast $1.5 Billion a day in trade

Canada is more reachable than the US is, not by much but nevertheless.

Shoot a couple of missiles into Canada, one in Alberta and one in Quebec.

The intent of this was to weaken the US economy and its flow of oil and electricity from Canada

Everything is possible.

 

[ottawabill]

RE: Does Canada spend too

Exactly, Canadians do get it but we all in North America are considered one people..one attitude and maybe one enemy... Canada is great at bringing our one degree of separation to the forfront...but the rest of the world doesn't see that. They see two Judea Christian Countries who live a decandent life style and are out to spread this attitute all over the world..Right or wrong we are part of that...We are a western nation!