Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupation?

[Machjo]

RE: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

Just my take on this.

before the Iraq war, I actually was in favour of it in principle, on the condition that it ought to abide by international law. The reason was simly that, from what I could tell (maybe due to media bias?) it seemed to be the just thing to do to bring justice to the Iraqi people. The reason I believed it had to be in full accordance with international law was also out of principle; if one country can ignore internaitonal law, then ditto for all!

So when the UN hadn't approved of this war, I was surprised, but also supportive on the ground that maybe countries nearer to Iraq have a better understanding of things than I did in North America(i.e., I was humble enough to acknowledge that there might be more to the issue that North Americans just can't understand). I wouldn't be surprised if more than half the news from the Arab world isn't even available in the English language (just from my experience between French and English, if that's a fair assessment).

So when the US ignored this, and still continued to clamour for war, I cringed and immediately became suspicious (why so eager?), and also found the US arrogant to come forward with such a "know it all" attitude that they were right, the rest of the world was wrong; they were brave, the rest of the world were cowards; they knew how to handle the situation, the rest of the world was clueless; etc.

Now we see that the rest of the world did indeed know something we didn't. And now the world is stuck with the concequences of the mess the US created.

So yes, maybe those people in Iraq are terrorists, but who created them? I can't remember them being there before the US invasion. So it would seem to me that their creator also holds some of the blame.

 

[Machjo]

RE: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

Let me add that, had the UN requested Canada to go into Iraq, I would have been in favour of it. But no sooner had the UN made its final decision, did I support Canada abiding by it. Canada was wise in showing a little humility here and not assume it knows everything, especially when we are dealing with another culture from across the world, who speak a different language, abide by a different religion, etc.

 

[Just the Facts]

Re: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

Why do they have to be organized? There is nothing in their actions that indicates that. Kidnap victims seem to be taken by common thugs and sold up the ladder.

If they're not organized, what ladder?

 

[Derry McKinney]

Re: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

If they're not organized, what ladder?

The one you were walking under when the paint can fell....

They sell them to the highest bidder, generally somebody who wants to make a statement, or a middle man who can get them there. It requires no more organisation than buying a car stereo in a bar.

 

[I think not]

Re: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

mrmom2 got it right. There is no such thing as Zirqawi or shit head.

There is such a thing as Zaraqawi though. He may not be a single person, and he's almost certainly not the guy(s) we keep seeing pictures of, but he is real. He is a personality created to represent terrorism in Iraq and, since the illegal invasion, there is terroism in Iraq.

He represents al Qaeda (something else that likely didn't exist before the US government said it did, but that's another thread). He represents evil. Zaraquai (I like to use all the spellings :wink: ) exists because the US government needs him to. It helps keep the American public from storming the White House with pitch forks and torches.

I guess you only picked up the neo-con message in that documentary you liked so much. "The power of nightmares"

So who is in charge then in your opinion?

If I had to take a wild shot at it? Likely 15 or 20 loosely connected people with connections to either the former military, Muslim extremists, and criminals. No matter which category they fall into, they are all well connected within their communities. They have access to money and guns...likely from illegal Russian and American sources left over from the Cold War. They have varying goals and don't get along too well but are united by a common enemy.

Congrats, think not...your country has turned Iraq into Somalia.

A common enemy? You mean the Iraqi people? Because thats who they are killing

 

[I think not]

Re: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

I would think the guys in charge now are former Saddam loyalists maybe some of his secret police. You got to remember the US didn't get to there files in time I remember seeing the burnt remains of their offices on the news.So the US would have no idea who some of the shadowy players were.The intelligence arm of the US is not exactly the best when it comes to Iraq :wink:

This makes sense. I can agree with you on this.

 

[Derry McKinney]

Re: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

I guess you only picked up the neo-con message in that documentary you liked so much. "The power of nightmares"

It was okay...dragged a bit.

If you can prove that there is one unified force fighting in Iraq right now, or even come close to showing that Zarqaui is who the US says he is, you should give it a shot though.

A common enemy? You mean the Iraqi people? Because thats who they are killing

And who got killed in Somalia? Don't give me that Black awk Down jingoistic bullshit either.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occu

Just my take on this.

before the Iraq war, I actually was in favour of it in principle, on the condition that it ought to abide by international law. The reason was simly that, from what I could tell (maybe due to media bias?) it seemed to be the just thing to do to bring justice to the Iraqi people. The reason I believed it had to be in full accordance with international law was also out of principle; if one country can ignore internaitonal law, then ditto for all!

I assume then your views applies to Serbia also?

So when the UN hadn't approved of this war, I was surprised, but also supportive on the ground that maybe countries nearer to Iraq have a better understanding of things than I did in North America(i.e., I was humble enough to acknowledge that there might be more to the issue that North Americans just can't understand). I wouldn't be surprised if more than half the news from the Arab world isn't even available in the English language (just from my experience between French and English, if that's a fair assessment).

So when the US ignored this, and still continued to clamour for war, I cringed and immediately became suspicious (why so eager?), and also found the US arrogant to come forward with such a "know it all" attitude that they were right, the rest of the world was wrong; they were brave, the rest of the world were cowards; they knew how to handle the situation, the rest of the world was clueless; etc.

I'm getting a bit confused, further up you said "but also supportive on the ground that maybe countries nearer to Iraq have a better understanding of things than I did in North America", and then you didnt elaborate on it.

Now we see that the rest of the world did indeed know something we didn't. And now the world is stuck with the concequences of the mess the US created.

So yes, maybe those people in Iraq are terrorists, but who created them? I can't remember them being there before the US invasion.

Is there anything you can remember before the US invasion? Iraq wasn't exactly on the daily news except for no-fly zone violations

So it would seem to me that their creator also holds some of the blame.

Absolutely.

 

[I think not]

Re: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

I guess you only picked up the neo-con message in that documentary you liked so much. "The power of nightmares"

It was okay...dragged a bit.

If you can prove that there is one unified force fighting in Iraq right now, or even come close to showing that Zarqaui is who the US says he is, you should give it a shot though.

I can't prove there is one unified force, I don't think you can disprove it either however, unless you have inside information the rest of us lack

A common enemy? You mean the Iraqi people? Because thats who they are killing

And who got killed in Somalia? Don't give me that Black awk Down jingoistic bullshit either.

I know jingoism is your favorite word, but you really need to compare apples with apples. How is Somalia and Iraq similar?

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occu

Let me add that, had the UN requested Canada to go into Iraq, I would have been in favour of it. But no sooner had the UN made its final decision, did I support Canada abiding by it. Canada was wise in showing a little humility here and not assume it knows everything, especially when we are dealing with another culture from across the world, who speak a different language, abide by a different religion, etc.

Canada go into Iraq at which point? For peacekeeping?

 

[mrmom2]

Re: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

Well it sure likes like they are turning up the heat on the US 8O

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occu

Just my take on this.

before the Iraq war, I actually was in favour of it in principle, on the condition that it ought to abide by international law. The reason was simly that, from what I could tell (maybe due to media bias?) it seemed to be the just thing to do to bring justice to the Iraqi people. The reason I believed it had to be in full accordance with international law was also out of principle; if one country can ignore internaitonal law, then ditto for all!

I assume then your views applies to Serbia also?

Hmmm... Pardon my ignorance here. Did Canada's going into Serbia conflict with international law? If so, then yes, what applies to one, applies to all. So if Canada's going into Serbia did conflict with international law, here's your opportunity to educate me on that. Please provide me with a reliable link; I'd appreciate it very much.

So when the UN hadn't approved of this war, I was surprised, but also supportive on the ground that maybe countries nearer to Iraq have a better understanding of things than I did in North America(i.e., I was humble enough to acknowledge that there might be more to the issue that North Americans just can't understand). I wouldn't be surprised if more than half the news from the Arab world isn't even available in the English language (just from my experience between French and English, if that's a fair assessment).

So when the US ignored this, and still continued to clamour for war, I cringed and immediately became suspicious (why so eager?), and also found the US arrogant to come forward with such a "know it all" attitude that they were right, the rest of the world was wrong; they were brave, the rest of the world were cowards; they knew how to handle the situation, the rest of the world was clueless; etc.

I'm getting a bit confused, further up you said "but also supportive on the ground that maybe countries nearer to Iraq have a better understanding of things than I did in North America", and then you didnt elaborate on it.

I don't see what there is to elaborate on. Obviously, the US misjudged the notion that the iraqi people would just welcome their "liberators" with open arms. Who knows, maybe other countries nearer to Iraq already had premonitions about this. And even if they didn't, it still doesn't change the fact that most countries refused to approve this war, which would suggest that they might still have known things we just cannot understand of the area, and even if that wasn't the case, it still doesn't change the fact taht most countries, for whatever reason, were not willing to give the US the right to enter Iraq. As a matter of basic principle, no country ought to be above international law. If one can be, then so can all!

Now we see that the rest of the world did indeed know something we didn't. And now the world is stuck with the concequences of the mess the US created.

So yes, maybe those people in Iraq are terrorists, but who created them? I can't remember them being there before the US invasion.

Is there anything you can remember before the US invasion? Iraq wasn't exactly on the daily news except for no-fly zone violations

Perhaps. So if my neighbour is a criminal, that means I'm allowed to take the law into my own hands, drag him out into the bush and shoot him? Not at all. Perhaps Saddam was violating international law, but that in no way gives the US the right to do the same. Following that argument, now everyone has the right to violate international law on the grounds that the US did!

So it would seem to me that their creator also holds some of the blame.

Absolutely.

Seems we agree on that.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occu

Let me add that, had the UN requested Canada to go into Iraq, I would have been in favour of it. But no sooner had the UN made its final decision, did I support Canada abiding by it. Canada was wise in showing a little humility here and not assume it knows everything, especially when we are dealing with another culture from across the world, who speak a different language, abide by a different religion, etc.

Canada go into Iraq at which point? For peacekeeping?

For whatever the UN, not the US, requests of it.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occu

I don't see what there is to elaborate on. Obviously, the US misjudged the notion that the iraqi people would just welcome their "liberators" with open arms. Who knows, maybe other countries nearer to Iraq already had premonitions about this. And even if they didn't, it still doesn't change the fact that most countries refused to approve this war, which would suggest that they might still have known things we just cannot understand of the area, and even if that wasn't the case, it still doesn't change the fact taht most countries, for whatever reason, were not willing to give the US the right to enter Iraq. As a matter of basic principle, no country ought to be above international law. If one can be, then so can all!

In the weeks leading up to the invasion, Middle East analysts were quite vocal about what would happen in Iraq...it should have surprised no one...

 

[mrmom2]

Re: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

Heres a resistance report from inside Iraq

 

[Derry McKinney]

Re: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

I can't prove there is one unified force, I don't think you can disprove it either however, unless you have inside information the rest of us lack

It's not special information at all. It is information that makes the news everywhere but in the mainstream US press. Look at the articles written about the situation. The best ones refer to militia groups etc in the plural, no the singular. They often mention rivalries between religious groups and old scores being settled between tribal groups and families. There is no picture being drawn of a single, unified force except in press releases by the US government.

How is Somalia and Iraq similar?

Lawlessness, a multi-sided civil war, the complete helplessness of the US to understand the situation, never mind dealing with it.

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occu

Let me add that, had the UN requested Canada to go into Iraq, I would have been in favour of it. But no sooner had the UN made its final decision, did I support Canada abiding by it. Canada was wise in showing a little humility here and not assume it knows everything, especially when we are dealing with another culture from across the world, who speak a different language, abide by a different religion, etc.

Canada go into Iraq at which point? For peacekeeping?

For whatever the UN, not the US, requests of it.

Still subservient to the UN are you?

 

[peapod]

Re: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

Still subservient to the UN are you?

Well I guess we are... Still invading other countries are you? which one is next? Iran??

 

[mrmom2]

Re: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

They don't have the Muscle for Iran P They went in there they would get a spanking

 

[Blackleaf]

Re: Do The People Of Iraq Have A Right To Resist US Occupati

from what I've seen, the majority of the Iraqi people are happy that the Americans, the British and their allies are there. The Prime Minister of Iraq qrote a letter of thanks to the British and American people for liberating Iraq from Saddam and when the British newspaper The Sun printed a picture of Saddam on its front cover just underpants whilst cleaning his clothes in jail made the Iraqi people laugh out loud when they saw the pictures on television.