Do The Conservatives Deserve Another Chance?

[Klayoven]

My only source of information was the news at the time that said the debt to the Canadian Gov't. was paid in full. :smile:



I think a lot of intelligent people agree with you.



Maybe when the Prime Minister calls one or no longer than about 4 years. Definitely not by three dough heads who are in a power struggle. :smile:

Maybe or maybe not. We've become a spoiled and whiney bunch... at least since the last couple of elections. Say what you want about the Opposition, but our parliamentary system permits motions of non-confidence. Perhaps the real issue is with the latter. Voting should be mandatory as it is in Australia.

 

[JLM]

Maybe or maybe not. We've become a spoiled and whiney bunch... at least since the last couple of elections. Say what you want about the Opposition, but our parliamentary system permits motions of non-confidence. Perhaps the real issue is with the latter. Voting should be mandatory as it is in Australia.

I disagree that voting should be mandatory. First of all it limits our freedom which is not conducive to a democracy. (if this is a democracy) Secondly I can not see any point from getting input from disinterested people or people who are not cognizant of the issues. Look at the mess that is made of Gov't. by those of us who do think we know the answers. :smile:

 

[McRocket]

It was on CBC so it's probably archived as a podcast somewhere in their archives.

No, I am one of those guys that does not believe anything someone whom I have never met tells me unless he/she has documented proof to back it up.

You maybe right (though I tend to doubt it).

But I am going to need some factual proof before I believe it.

All Canada has to do is treat their shareholdership in GM the same way they treat their total ownership of Crown Corporations.

I believe just about all Crown Corporations that are in competitive fields are conflicts of interest to some extent.

 

[Avro]

If you've been listening to Avro you would know that EVERY Union is bad and EVERY Union employee is a useless, lazy, thieving jerk. I think Ford was possibly better managed, BUT G.M. sure didn't take long to get back on their feet and repaid all the money right away. I think they did have to lay the law down about wages.

Yep, see what happens when you put a bit of fear in the hearts of the lazy bums....I hope GM turns the screws on these guys. Plenty of people would love those jobs.

No one on the line should be making more than 15 bucks an hour to start and get raises based on how hard they work. Do a good job over a few years and they may get 15-20 cents more an hour but nothing for the slugs who don't bust their arse.

Trades and those with marketable skills get more based on what the market will bare.

I love the logic of that guys job is boring so he should get 40 bucks an hour, gold plated benefits and a great pension all for puttting a nut on every half hour for 35 years.

 

[JLM]

Yep, see what happens when you put a bit of fear in the hearts of the lazy bums....I hope GM turns the screws on these guys. Plenty of people would love those jobs.

No one on the line should be making more than 15 bucks an hour to start and get raises based on how hard they work. Do a good job over a few years and they may get 15-20 cents more an hour but nothing for the slugs who don't bust their arse.

Trades and those with marketable skills get more based on what the market will bare.

I love the logic of that guys job is boring so he should get 40 bucks an hour, gold plated benefits and a great pension all for puttting a nut on every half hour for 35 years.

Do you earn over $15 an hour? (Watch this Ger)

 

[Avro]

Do you earn over $15 an hour? (Watch this Ger)

I'm on a salary.

 

[JLM]

I'm on a salary.

When you divide the salary by number of hours worked does it come to more than $15?

 

[Avro]

When you divide the salary by number of hours worked does it come to more than $15?

Hard to pin down, my hours are all over the place.

 

[Cannuck]

If you've been listening to Avro you would know that EVERY Union is bad and EVERY Union employee is a useless, lazy, thieving jerk. I think Ford was possibly better managed, BUT G.M. sure didn't take long to get back on their feet and repaid all the money right away. I think they did have to lay the law down about wages.

The whole issue was not about wages. It was about pensions. GM horribly bungled the pensions and when the government stepped in and forced them to put money aside, it left little for R&D, advertising and such.

Hard to pin down, my hours are all over the place.

Lets see...153,000 paid in taxes so I'm guessing 300,000 per year...thats $821/day and if all he did was work and sleep, 16 hrs/day every day would be over $50/hour. So the fact that it is hard to pin down whether Avro makes over $15/hour means that Avro is a liar. All those who aren't surprised raise your hands.

 

[JLM]

The whole issue was not about wages. It was about pensions. GM horribly bungled the pensions and when the government stepped in and forced them to put money aside, it left little for R&D, advertising and such.



Lets see...153,000 paid in taxes so I'm guessing 300,000 per year...thats $821/day and if all he did was work and sleep, 16 hrs/day every day would be over $50/hour. So the fact that it is hard to pin down whether Avro makes over $15/hour means that Avro is a liar. All those who aren't surprised raise your hands.

You know something? That was similar to the conclusion I came to (like I was saying to Gerry) you just have to ask the right question. Not only that but I got someone else to call him a liar while I never said a word. :lol:

 

[PoliticalNick]

Interesting note about the stimulus plan - the TARP section actually made money for the gov't:

The U.S. Treasury's bank bailout program will move into a profit for the first time on Wednesday with the expected repayment of $7.4 billion in taxpayer funds, Treasury officials said.
The transfers to the Troubled Asset Relief Program will push recoveries from banks to $251 billion in repayments of capital, dividends, interest and other income. It invested $245 billion in banks during the financial crisis to help avert a U.S. financial system collapse.

I would just like to bring to your attention that the Us govt has invested over $1 trillion in the bank bailout to date so whoopee, they gave back $245 billion or 25%. In the meantime these banks have paid out over $500 million in bonuses to top execs and CEO's since they started recieving money fro the feds.

Yep, see what happens when you put a bit of fear in the hearts of the lazy bums....I hope GM turns the screws on these guys. Plenty of people would love those jobs.

No one on the line should be making more than 15 bucks an hour to start and get raises based on how hard they work. Do a good job over a few years and they may get 15-20 cents more an hour but nothing for the slugs who don't bust their arse.

Trades and those with marketable skills get more based on what the market will bare.

I love the logic of that guys job is boring so he should get 40 bucks an hour, gold plated benefits and a great pension all for puttting a nut on every half hour for 35 years.

This from the guy who is so right wing he looks left to see George Bush, Stephen Harper, and the entirety of the Texas soveroegnist movement.

If they can get it they should and never pay any taxes on it, right Avro?

 

[Avro]

I would just like to bring to your attention that the Us govt has invested over $1 trillion in the bank bailout to date so whoopee, they gave back $245 billion or 25%. In the meantime these banks have paid out over $500 million in bonuses to top execs and CEO's since they started recieving money fro the feds.


This from the guy who is so right wing he looks left to see George Bush, Stephen Harper, and the entirety of the Texas soveroegnist movement.

If they can get it they should and never pay any taxes on it, right Avro?

Get what?

Bush is a neo-con which is basically a liberal.

Harper is a Canadian conservative so a little left of a democrat.

They both love taking our money.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Get what?

I was referring to the GM employees you seem to think don't deserve a real living wage.

I would think with your 'every man for himself' philosphy you wouldn't have much to say about anyone's wages. In fact if you held tryue to your views you would agree that they were overtaxed on their pay and support them getting more.

 

[JLM]

I was referring to the GM employees you seem to think don't deserve a real living wage.

I would think with your 'every man for himself' philosphy you wouldn't have much to say about anyone's wages. In fact if you held tryue to your views you would agree that they were overtaxed on their pay and support them getting more.

Actually I think we are not far from the day when we will all receive a liveable wage, whether we "work" or not (albeit I think it will be a temporary situation). Actually for about 80% of people today the word "work" is a misnomer, we have machines and computers that do the "work" now, so when people refer to people as "lazy bums", it's actually a moot point. Like entering figures in spread sheets is not work, shovelling gravel into a cement mixer is.

 

[Avro]

I was referring to the GM employees you seem to think don't deserve a real living wage.

I would think with your 'every man for himself' philosphy you wouldn't have much to say about anyone's wages. In fact if you held tryue to your views you would agree that they were overtaxed on their pay and support them getting more.

I support low tax and market valued wages for hard work.

If someone market value was 40 bucks they would pay the flat tax of about 5% like the rest of us.

Imagine that, you make 100 grand and keep 95 grand and you choose how it's spent. Not some bureaucrat or union boss.

 

[PoliticalNick]

I support low tax and market valued wages for hard work.

If someone market value was 40 bucks they would pay the flat tax of about 5% like the rest of us.

Imagine that, you make 100 grand and keep 95 grand and you choose how it's spent. Not some bureaucrat or union boss.

You seem to want the best of both worlds.

You said previously you want government to only look after police and military...If this their only role then there are no regulations on wages or unions or anything else and you get no say or opinion on anybody else's life, and yet you seem to think you can get rid of unions and dictate everyone's wages based on your personal preference.

 

[Avro]

You seem to want the best of both worlds.

You said previously you want government to only look after police and military...If this their only role then there are no regulations on wages or unions or anything else and you get no say or opinion on anybody else's life, and yet you seem to think you can get rid of unions and dictate everyone's wages based on your personal preference.

If people want to form a union in the private sector I have no problem with that at all, the market will decide what they can be paid.

In the public sector their are no standards, when the economy struggles they still get pay increases while people in the private sector weather the storm and pay more tax to support the lazy government employees.

The only way I would allow public sector employees to organize is if their jobs were open to private sector bids during contract negotiations.

This would bring some accountability, improve productivity while keeping wages and benefits in line.

 

[Cannuck]

You seem to want the best of both worlds.

You said previously you want government to only look after police and military...If this their only role then there are no regulations on wages or unions or anything else and you get no say or opinion on anybody else's life, and yet you seem to think you can get rid of unions and dictate everyone's wages based on your personal preference.

Avro has no idea what he is talking about. The County of Forty Mile #8 and the Municipal District of Taber are right beside each other. One is unionized and the other isn't. There is very little difference between the two in terms of pay, working conditions and productivity.

 

[DurkaDurka]

No one on the line should be making more than 15 bucks an hour to start and get raises based on how hard they work. Do a good job over a few years and they may get 15-20 cents more an hour but nothing for the slugs who don't bust their arse.

Avro, would you also advocate that execs shouldn't make more then lets says, 60k? Seeing as they are the one's who screwed GM up in the first place.

 

[Avro]

Avro, would you also advocate that execs shouldn't make more then lets says, 60k? Seeing as they are the one's who screwed GM up in the first place.

Are they unionized?

Nope.

Their pay is based on the market.

If the owners (reps on the board) want to pay them that much so be it.

If the company is mismanaged it will die and a new, more responsible one will replace it.

Instead the socialists protecting the unions tore money out of our pockets and handed it to a company that should have failed for it's errors.