Do The Conservatives Deserve Another Chance?

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
In defense of the HST, I say we must cut back spending first. Withdrawing from the G20 is something I'd support, scrapping the F35 purchases I can support. But until that is done, reducing taxes and increasing spending on education, etc. is out of the question.

Somethings need to be paid for. Others can be cut but there is the fine line all politicians must dance along.
What we have here are two visions of where our country should go. We can be a war hawk and build a military to stand along side the US and other revamped NATO countries to spread our vision of culture and society around the globe to those who can't fend us off. Or we can look within to build our country up so that others can look at Canada and see what it is they would like to do in their country.

But we can't do both.

Sense tells me that we should balance the budget right now. Those who can afford it, need to dig deep and make that sacrifice, all as they are able. Corporations need to step up and pay their tax if they want to operate here and if they choose not to then there is someone else who will replace them in a heart beat. There is plenty of money to be made in Canada and there is no reason they shouldn't pay for that privilege too. We can balance the budget, cover the most vulnerable, keep our core beliefs and values intact while we return to paying down the debt.

As the debt gets lower, we can afford more allocate where it does the most good in advancing our vision of Canada's future.

We just need to drop the partisanship and start thinking what the country needs, rather than how we can best screw the other parties.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Put up 2 or 3 and make them really big. This is a free country and it is highly appropriate for you to express your displeasure with his actions and record whether he is your neighbor or not. In fact him being your neighbor might make it hit home even more.



It is owed to the bank and investment firms. Through the investment firms it is owed to many pension plans who buy Govt bonds.

When the govt need money it has to issue bonds or Tbills for sale on the open market to raise revenue.

These instruments are purchased by banks and investors as interest bearing assets. At the end of their term these bonds are redeemable for the face value + interest. If the govt doesn't have the money in the bank to pay it has to issue more bonds to raise revenue to pay for the old bonds. It is really a vicious cycle that is designed to keep us in debt.

There is nothing to actually back these bonds except for the good faith credit of the govt. The solution proposed by some is that instead of the govt issuing bonds it just issue money. The theory being that if they can issue a $20 bond they can issue a $20 bill. this is something the banks are very scared of and will fight with every means available because it removes interest fro the process which is how they make their money.

To try to make it easier to understand right now every $20 bill represents $20 in bonds + the interest owed on the bond therfore your $20 bill is only worth about $18.50.

That is why we have inflation, to make the value of your payment equal to the actual value of what you are purchasing. When a business has an item worth $20 it has to charge $22 to actally balance the true value of the money to the value of the product.

That's what I figured- you and me, it's really just all on paper anyway and as long as you and I can cash our bonds and get our interest no real problem. They are not the sole cause of inflation by a long shot. The realtor who tells the customer his house is worth more than it really is and lists it and every other house on the block according is as guilty of inflation as pretty well anyone.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
0
36
Edson, AB
That's what I figured- you and me, it's really just all on paper anyway and as long as you and I can cash our bonds and get our interest no real problem. They are not the sole cause of inflation by a long shot. The realtor who tells the customer his house is worth more than it really is and lists it and every other house on the block according is as guilty of inflation as pretty well anyone.

Not quite JLM. Inflation is caused by the devaluation of the currency. The market price adjusts itself to inflation through the buying power (value) of the money.

What you are describing is supply and demand. If an item is scarce people can ask for more value for it.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Not quite JLM. Inflation is caused by the devaluation of the currency. The market price adjusts itself to inflation through the buying power (value) of the money.

What you are describing is supply and demand. If an item is scarce people can ask for more value for it.

I'll begrudgingly give you that one as I'm not an economist. But for all intents and purposes when the price of a loaf of bread goes up our dollar is deflated.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
0
36
Edson, AB
I'll begrudgingly give you that one as I'm not an economist. But for all intents and purposes when the price of a loaf of bread goes up our dollar is deflated.

You seem to keep getting it backwards. the price of a loaf of bread goes up because the dollar is devalued. It still takes the same amount of labour to produce the bread and get it to market, it is the value of the exchange medium that changes not the value of the product.
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
4,709
286
83
Canada
SK Premier Brad Wall says he isn't, as a Conservative going to support Harper Conservatives. Says he's staying neutral. After being ****ed in the ass I'd pull up my pants drop my support too.
Yeah, well the Cons should have sold Sask Pot.
If what you say about Brad is true, I guess that's what you get for helping a friend.
 

weaselwords

Electoral Member
Nov 10, 2009
518
4
18
salisbury's tavern
Now that the discussion is debt, deficient, inflation, deflation, supply & demand. I know ithe external debt was south of 700B when Martin left the scene, however from Statscan I can find for 2010 it is now 1.098 Trillion for Harpers Conservatives for the last reporting period. That being the case where's the prudence & accumen in Harper & Flaherty's financial guidance? Worst case scenario I would have thought maybe 100-150B additional to ease the recession not 300B. To me it seems they use a dart board rather than any rational motivation to increase the debt that much.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
You seem to keep getting it backwards. the price of a loaf of bread goes up because the dollar is devalued. It still takes the same amount of labour to produce the bread and get it to market, it is the value of the exchange medium that changes not the value of the product.

O.K. So what about when someone raises the minimum wage?

Now that the discussion is debt, deficient, inflation, deflation, supply & demand. I know ithe external debt was south of 700B when Martin left the scene, however from Statscan I can find for 2010 it is now 1.098 Trillion for Harpers Conservatives for the last reporting period. That being the case where's the prudence & accumen in Harper & Flaherty's financial guidance? Worst case scenario I would have thought maybe 100-150B additional to ease the recession not 300B. To me it seems they use a dart board rather than any rational motivation to increase the debt that much.

When we are discussing deficit and debt we are really getting into semantics. They are words with political slants attached. All deficit is debt and all debt was deficit at one time. I guess if you are drowning it doesn't really matter if its in six feet of water or 60. :lol:
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
0
36
Edson, AB
O.K. So what about when someone raises the minimum wage?

Once again, the wage has to increase because you dollar doesn't buy what it used to, it is worth less than before so you need more of it to buy the loaf of bread.

The baker still does the same amount of work to create the bread, the value of the labour within the bread remains the same, he needs more of the devalued dollars to balance the equation.

Lets take dollar value away for a minute. Say that the bread is composed of 5 units, 2 units are the labour, 2 units are the ingredients, 1 unit getting it to market. That amount of units never changes. You cannot change them or you do not have a loaf of bread you have something else. The value of the bread is constant.

Now you add the money, the medium for exchange, if this was also constant in value you would never have inflation. Only by making the value of the money less do you get inflation.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
O.K. So what about when someone raises the minimum wage?



When we are discussing deficit and debt we are really getting into semantics. They are words with political slants attached. All deficit is debt and all debt was deficit at one time. I guess if you are drowning it doesn't really matter if its in six feet of water or 60. :lol:

Could you at lease google the fricken definition to these words? The same mistake over and over again is irritating.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Man watching you and JLM go back and forth is an excellent distraction from this whole pointless election. :p

Cheers
Neoconobiggestdickess



Ha! I think that's pronounced bigethdicketh, biblically speaking of courth.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
7,815
65
48
55
Oshawa
Wow....do you have any idea how offensive these remarks are? What about the elderly or infirm, those that cannot work due to injury or other reasons, people who have to work 2 jobs for minimum wage just to eat, should they go to 3 jobs, work 24 hour days.

Well boo hoo, still not my problem.

Why should I pay the way for anyone else, it's my money.

If you want your own dough, work for it.

If you want to willingly spend your own money to help someone out then go ahead, but no one should force you to pay for people that are dumb and lazy....ie...unionized public employees or some drooling idiot lying on the street.

Same with education, if you can't pay to send your kids to school.....DON"T HAVE KIDS!
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
0
36
Edson, AB
Well boo hoo, still not my problem.

Why should I pay the way for anyone else, it's my money.

If you want your own dough, work for it.

If you want to willingly spend your own money to help someone out then go ahead, but no one should force you to pay for people that are dumb and lazy....ie...unionized public employees or some drooling idiot lying on the street.

Same with education, if you can't pay to send your kids to school.....DON"T HAVE KIDS!

If you are so upset with our socially responsible society then you are free to leave it...and we hope you do!

I am none of what you describe and am sure that most have a specific reason for being one of those things that is quite possibly beyond their control.

My sister, for example, who has worked her entire adult life (not for the govt or in a union) now has breast cancer, her disability and EI have run out and she now has to collect the welfare which you are so against to meet her basic needs and have the govt pay for her meds for the short time she has left.

Given this example you will obviously understand when I tell you to F U C K OFF and DIE!!!! Why she has to pass away when people like you are left to roam our planet is beyond my understanding.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
7,815
65
48
55
Oshawa
If you are so upset with our socially responsible society then you are free to leave it...and we hope you do!

I am none of what you describe and am sure that most have a specific reason for being one of those things that is quite possibly beyond their control.

My sister, for example, who has worked her entire adult life (not for the govt or in a union) now has breast cancer, her disability and EI have run out and she now has to collect the welfare which you are so against to meet her basic needs and have the govt pay for her meds for the short time she has left.

Given this example you will obviously understand when I tell you to F U C K OFF and DIE!!!! Why she has to pass away when people like you are left to roam our planet is beyond my understanding.

Sorry to hear about her illness, but I still don't want to pay for her treatment.....you can though. When she was working she could have gotten insurance or saved more....when the nanny state does it people forget how to do it on there own.

When we end silly exspensive unsustainable services like health care people will learn how to take care of themselves again and stop bothering people who do.

Take care.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
12,395
1,367
113
60
Alberta
Sorry to hear about her illness, but I still don't want to pay for her treatment.....you can though. When she was working she could have gotten insurance or saved more....when the nanny state does it people forget how to do it on there own.

When we end silly exspensive unsustainable services like health care people will learn how to take care of themselves again and stop bothering people who do.

Take care.

What? I thought you didn't mind paying all the taxes you pay for the good of fellow Canadians?
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
7,815
65
48
55
Oshawa
What? I thought you didn't mind paying all the taxes you pay for the good of fellow Canadians?

Nah, I was just kidding around.

I want to pay tax for two things only.

The military for protection not intervention.

Police, courts and jails to protect property and law.

End funding for everything else.

Hungry? Work or die.