Demjanjuk and Sobibor
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Witness Accounts by former Sobibor Prisoners, Part 1
Sobibor gas chamber witness Jacob Biskubicz; Moshe Bahir, another witness at the Eichmann Trial with some strange tales to tell;...
Sobibor gas chamber witness Jacob Biskubicz; Moshe Bahir, another witness at the Eichmann Trial with some strange tales to tell;...
hit the wrong button--continued from above
protocols of the 1960 Jerusalem Eichmann Trial:
Presiding Judge: You described the inside of the gas chamber. For example, you told us how the floor opened up and the bodies fell below into the railway waggons.
Witness Biskowitz: Into the hollow below.
Q. Did you see this with your own eyes, or are you talking of things that you heard from others?
A. I will describe a shocking scene here.
Q. But first of all - did you, in general, have an opportunity of seeing these things from the inside?
A. Not everybody had the opportunity, but I, by chance, did. By chance I was taken to bring a cart with a barrel of chloride. When I was passing by the two larger stores in Camp 2, I detached the cart and pushed it towards Camp 3. I was supposed to leave it near the gate, but I could not hold the vehicle back. The gate opened and it pushed me inside.
Since I knew I would not get out alive from there, I began to run back at top speed and managed to reach my place of work without anyone noticing. I kept this a secret - I am stressing this - even from the inmates of the camp who worked with me. From a distance, I saw the pit and the hollow and the small train that carried the dead bodies. I did not see the gas chamber from the inside; I only saw, from the outside, that there was a very prominent roof, and that the floor opened and the bodies fell below.
Q. You came to this conclusion from the nature of the structure?
A. Not from the nature of the structure - I saw it from afar even while I was running away quickly, although I cannot describe it exactly, after nineteen years.
Q. Please understand me. You are somewhat familiar with these matters. Did you see the floor when it had opened up?
A. I did not see that - I merely saw that underneath the gas chamber, there was a hollow which already contained bodies.[１]
At this exact point, the presiding judge hurriedly declaimed that Biskubicz had concluded his testimony, enigmatically adding:
I know you have not told us everything. But there was no alternative.
Small wonder the judge wanted Biskubicz to step down from the witness stand – his gas chamber building with collapsible floor is completely anathema to the death chamber dogma which was in place already by the time Biskubicz took the oath in Jerusalem.
protocols of the 1960 Jerusalem Eichmann Trial:
Presiding Judge: You described the inside of the gas chamber. For example, you told us how the floor opened up and the bodies fell below into the railway waggons.
Witness Biskowitz: Into the hollow below.
Q. Did you see this with your own eyes, or are you talking of things that you heard from others?
A. I will describe a shocking scene here.
Q. But first of all - did you, in general, have an opportunity of seeing these things from the inside?
A. Not everybody had the opportunity, but I, by chance, did. By chance I was taken to bring a cart with a barrel of chloride. When I was passing by the two larger stores in Camp 2, I detached the cart and pushed it towards Camp 3. I was supposed to leave it near the gate, but I could not hold the vehicle back. The gate opened and it pushed me inside.
Since I knew I would not get out alive from there, I began to run back at top speed and managed to reach my place of work without anyone noticing. I kept this a secret - I am stressing this - even from the inmates of the camp who worked with me. From a distance, I saw the pit and the hollow and the small train that carried the dead bodies. I did not see the gas chamber from the inside; I only saw, from the outside, that there was a very prominent roof, and that the floor opened and the bodies fell below.
Q. You came to this conclusion from the nature of the structure?
A. Not from the nature of the structure - I saw it from afar even while I was running away quickly, although I cannot describe it exactly, after nineteen years.
Q. Please understand me. You are somewhat familiar with these matters. Did you see the floor when it had opened up?
A. I did not see that - I merely saw that underneath the gas chamber, there was a hollow which already contained bodies.[１]
At this exact point, the presiding judge hurriedly declaimed that Biskubicz had concluded his testimony, enigmatically adding:
I know you have not told us everything. But there was no alternative.
Small wonder the judge wanted Biskubicz to step down from the witness stand – his gas chamber building with collapsible floor is completely anathema to the death chamber dogma which was in place already by the time Biskubicz took the oath in Jerusalem.
Your point? I agreed. What about that don't you understand?
Your little tyraid here only proves that you think with your ideology and there for read what you want. I agreed that once we was released, that it should have ended there. And that memories fail over time.
What more can I say?
I certainly would support that.
Question for you DB...would you believe the outcome, if it wasn't in your favour?
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I already believe a lot of things that aren't in my favour. Corrupted history dosen't help anyone in the end. We can only repeat mistakes for so long, and then crunch it's over. Nobody escapes the maxim forever.
I'ld debate that.
I couldn't agree more. It certainly hasn't helped you, nor the majority of Canadians.
Actually, nobody, no matter the ideology, makes it out alive...;-)
Rakovsky said:
“Hitler took over the privilege of manufacturing money, and not only physical moneys, but also financial ones. He took over the machinery of falsification and put it to work for the benefit of the people. Can you possibly imagine what would have come if this had infected a number of other states?” (Henry Makow, “Hitler Did Not Want War,” March 21, 2004).
Eighteen years after Hitler and Germany had been crushed JFK caught a bullet in the head for trying the same thing.
“Hitler took over the privilege of manufacturing money, and not only physical moneys, but also financial ones. He took over the machinery of falsification and put it to work for the benefit of the people. Can you possibly imagine what would have come if this had infected a number of other states?” (Henry Makow, “Hitler Did Not Want War,” March 21, 2004).
Eighteen years after Hitler and Germany had been crushed JFK caught a bullet in the head for trying the same thing.
Yeah, dude, these are the Skeptics I was talking about. Capital S. Apply skepticism to everything but their own pet theories.
These former SS men who served in Sobibor were brought to trial in Hagen in September 1965 charged with murdering Jews in the Sobibor death camp.
Name --- Result --- T4
Bolender, Kurt --- Suicide --- Burner
Dubois, Werner --- 3 years imp. --- Burner, driver
Frenzel, Karl --- Life imp. --- Burner
Fuchs, Erich --- 4 years imp. --- Driver
Ittner, Alfred --- 4 years imp. --- T4 office
Jührs, Robert --- Acquitted --- Male nurse
Lachmann, Erich --- Acquitted --- ?
Lambert, Erwin --- Acquitted --- Builder
Schütt, Heinz-Hans --- Acquitted --- Office chief
Unverhau, Heinrich --- Acquitted --- Gas chamber assistant
Wolf, Franz --- 8 years imp. --- Photographer
Zierke, Ernst --- Acquitted --- Driver
Demjanjuk ???
Since you don't know -Are you calling yourself a moron!--you are so perceptive-
Demjanjuk Trial is about to start--- the picture used is 25 years old--why not a recent picture--can't use the same four perjuring jewish witnessess --Oh right they made a mistake--I mean it only meant an animal's death or not--What happened to those witnesses? They didn't get a hero biscuit? They were charged with purgery by the Israeli court? That was a joke right?
Demjanjuk Trial 90 minutes per day to start , Bishop Williamson Trial comming Up soon-
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Theater of Lies - the John Demjanjuk Case
Despite the American government actually having identified Demjanjuk as having been a guard at the geographically separate Sobibor camp, the “eyewitness survivors” placed Demjanjuk at the Treblinka camp, and of being the gas chamber operator there.
EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS FINGER DEMJANJUK
The first ‘survivor’ to testify, Pinhas Epstein, took the stand on 23 February 1987, and told the court that “I am convinced that opposite me sits Ivan the Terrible of Treblinka” (Reuters, 23 February 1987).
Epstein said he saw a photograph of Demjanjuk in an album shown to him in 1978 by Israeli investigators. "I was shown an album and my attention was drawn to one picture, and I identified it as that of Ivan.” (Reuters, 23 February 1987).
“I said the photo was not particularly sharp. It was older than the Ivan I knew, but it was still him. The frame, the round face, the short neck, the wide shoulders and the protruding ears. I told them this is the Ivan I remember,” Epstein said. (Reuters, 23 February 1987.)
“I would go to the gas chambers to take out the corpses . . . he would stand and look at the result of his handiwork – the stabbing of girls, the gouging of eyes, the pieces of the girls' breasts . . . this would occur meters from me,” Epstein continued in his evidence (Reuters, 23 February 1987).
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Despite the American government actually having identified Demjanjuk as having been a guard at the geographically separate Sobibor camp, the “eyewitness survivors” placed Demjanjuk at the Treblinka camp, and of being the gas chamber operator there.
EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS FINGER DEMJANJUK
The first ‘survivor’ to testify, Pinhas Epstein, took the stand on 23 February 1987, and told the court that “I am convinced that opposite me sits Ivan the Terrible of Treblinka” (Reuters, 23 February 1987).
Epstein said he saw a photograph of Demjanjuk in an album shown to him in 1978 by Israeli investigators. "I was shown an album and my attention was drawn to one picture, and I identified it as that of Ivan.” (Reuters, 23 February 1987).
“I said the photo was not particularly sharp. It was older than the Ivan I knew, but it was still him. The frame, the round face, the short neck, the wide shoulders and the protruding ears. I told them this is the Ivan I remember,” Epstein said. (Reuters, 23 February 1987.)
“I would go to the gas chambers to take out the corpses . . . he would stand and look at the result of his handiwork – the stabbing of girls, the gouging of eyes, the pieces of the girls' breasts . . . this would occur meters from me,” Epstein continued in his evidence (Reuters, 23 February 1987).
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Nuremberg Trial was 10 months long. In the very first prosecution speech, on the second day of the trial, US prosecutor Robert Jackson held up the Stroop Report and mentioned (but didn't show) the famous photo. It was the first public mention of the photo and report. 23 Black propaganda masquerading as evidence. The Jewish Underground convincing the Americans it was real evidence. But previous to the trial, during the war, the medieval city center of Nuremberg was needlessly carpet bombed by the British. It wasn't a military target, just a symbolic one. Thousands of civilians who lived in the city center died in the bombing. Fitting that the trial took place there. A lofty veneer of democratic ideals, created by the winners, covering up what was really a wartime hatefest.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Nuremberg Trial was 10 months long. In the very first prosecution speech, on the second day of the trial, US prosecutor Robert Jackson held up the Stroop Report and mentioned (but didn't show) the famous photo. It was the first public mention of the photo and report. 23 Black propaganda masquerading as evidence. The Jewish Underground convincing the Americans it was real evidence. But previous to the trial, during the war, the medieval city center of Nuremberg was needlessly carpet bombed by the British. It wasn't a military target, just a symbolic one. Thousands of civilians who lived in the city center died in the bombing. Fitting that the trial took place there. A lofty veneer of democratic ideals, created by the winners, covering up what was really a wartime hatefest.[/FONT]
Hey, were you a guard or something? I can't think of any other reason you feel a need to hide from history.
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The high paid Nazi hunters are out to get the last scraps. Since Israel has reached an agreement with Germany not to prosecute any more Germans--the Nazi Hunter gang has gone to lick up crumbs from Ukraine and other nationalities. Line up the false witnesses-Howl at the moon, your good at that .
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Do you have an idea of that which you speak yet? See, Israel and it's national grudge is a state bent on psychiatry ... and your versions are just nuts
There are a lot of things I'm good at, sunny. Some, I can still score as Master. Must really suck for you to only have hate to get by on.
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Is this was Demjanjuk has to look forward to--?
During his trial, eleven Jews testified under oath that they personally saw Walus murder Jews, including several children. After a costly and bitterly contested four-year legal battle, Walus was finally able to prove that he had actually spent the war years as a teenager quietly working on German farms. A lengthy article copyrighted by the American Bar Association and published in 1981 in the Washington Post concluded that "... in an atmosphere of hatred and loathing verging on hysteria, the government persecuted an innocent man."
We now know that witnesses at the main Nuremberg trial gave false testimony. Perhaps the most obvious were the three witnesses who ostensibly confirmed German guilt for the Katyn massacre of Polish officers. (note 63)
Stephen F. Pinter of St. Louis, Missouri, served as a US Army prosecuting attorney from January 1946 to July 1947 at the American trials of Germans at Dachau. Altogether, some 420 Germans were sentenced to death in these Dachau trials. In a 1960 affidavit Pinter stated that "notoriously perjured witnesses" were used to charge Germans with "false and unfounded" crimes. "Unfortunately, as a result of these miscarriages of justice, many innocent persons were convicted and some were executed." (note 64)
A tragi-comic incident during the Dachau proceedings suggests the general atmosphere. US investigator Joseph Kirschbaum brought a Jewish witness named Einstein into court to testify that the defendant, Menzel, had murdered Einstein's brother. But when the accused pointed out that the brother was, in fact, sitting in the courtroom, an embarrassed Kirschbaum scolded the witness: "How can we bring this pig to the gallows if you are so stupid as to bring your brother into court?" (note 65)
August Gross, a German who worked as a civilian employee for the U.S. Army at the Dachau trials, later declared: (note 66)
During his trial, eleven Jews testified under oath that they personally saw Walus murder Jews, including several children. After a costly and bitterly contested four-year legal battle, Walus was finally able to prove that he had actually spent the war years as a teenager quietly working on German farms. A lengthy article copyrighted by the American Bar Association and published in 1981 in the Washington Post concluded that "... in an atmosphere of hatred and loathing verging on hysteria, the government persecuted an innocent man."
We now know that witnesses at the main Nuremberg trial gave false testimony. Perhaps the most obvious were the three witnesses who ostensibly confirmed German guilt for the Katyn massacre of Polish officers. (note 63)
Stephen F. Pinter of St. Louis, Missouri, served as a US Army prosecuting attorney from January 1946 to July 1947 at the American trials of Germans at Dachau. Altogether, some 420 Germans were sentenced to death in these Dachau trials. In a 1960 affidavit Pinter stated that "notoriously perjured witnesses" were used to charge Germans with "false and unfounded" crimes. "Unfortunately, as a result of these miscarriages of justice, many innocent persons were convicted and some were executed." (note 64)
A tragi-comic incident during the Dachau proceedings suggests the general atmosphere. US investigator Joseph Kirschbaum brought a Jewish witness named Einstein into court to testify that the defendant, Menzel, had murdered Einstein's brother. But when the accused pointed out that the brother was, in fact, sitting in the courtroom, an embarrassed Kirschbaum scolded the witness: "How can we bring this pig to the gallows if you are so stupid as to bring your brother into court?" (note 65)
August Gross, a German who worked as a civilian employee for the U.S. Army at the Dachau trials, later declared: (note 66)
The American prosecutors paid professional incrimination witnesses, mostly former criminal concentration camp inmates, the amount of one dollar per day (at that time worth 280 marks on the black market) as well as food from a witness kitchen and witness lodging. During the recess periods between trial proceedings the US prosecuting attorneys told these witnesses what they were to say in giving testimony. The US prosecuting attorneys gave the witnesses photos of the defendants and were thereby able to easily incriminate them.
A young US Army court reporter at the Dachau trials in 1947, Joseph Halow, later recalled the unwholesome situation:
The witnesses in the concentration camp cases were virtually all of the sort we court reporters termed "professional witnesses," those who spent months in Dachau, testifying against one or another of the many accused... It was to their economic advantage to testify, and many of them made a good living doing so. As one might well imagine, the motive of the professional witnesses was also one of spite and revenge... In many instances their vengeance included relating exaggerated accounts of what they had witnessed. It also included outright lying.
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Einsmench, you have posted so much garbage on here in support of Holocaust-denial and Jew-hatred that you are completely discredited.......I seriously believe that your biggest problem with the Holocaust is that they didn't get them all.....Now, that said, I think the prosecution of this individual is idiotic. He was acquitted and released by the Israeli justice system for lack of evidence....I think that should have ended the matter......the Jews are the ones the offenses were committed against, certainly Israel has not proven shy in its prosecution of those responsible....when Israel let him go.....well, that says it all.
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