Deep Space

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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All the matter in the universe in motion & all the "excited particles" make the E in E=MC2 and friction creates off all this matter in motion "static" electricity" creating electromagnetism as a by-product.

Tesla knew all about this and figured out how to tap into it but the power of the corporation and corrupt government killed free energy for us all.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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Your grip on physics appears to be about as good as DB's. Motion and excitation are not the source of the E in Einstein's matter-energy equivalence equation, electromagnetism is not a byproduct of static electricity, and Tesla was a pretty bright guy who made major contributions before he sank into eccentricity and crackpottery. There's no free energy to be had, there's always a cost to it.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Physics in an Electric Universe

As I mentioned in my post earlier, some of the best examples of bad math are really examples of no math. One of my favorite examples of this kind of bogosity is the Electric Universe. The Electric Universe is fun, both because of the utter bizzareness of its ideas, and the fact that it's not just a single crackpot spewing it, but rather a whole active community of crackpots working together. So there are multiple different threads of it - a veritable cornucipia of of lunacy!

There are two main threads to the EU gibberish: the mythology, and the physics. Let's take a look at the physics. Here's one version of the fundamental physics of the electric universe:

The Electric Universe takes a simplifying leap by unifying the nuclear forces, magnetism and gravity as manifestations of a near instantaneous electrostatic force. Instead of being "spooked" by the concept of action-at-a-distance, like most physicists this century, the Electric Universe accepts it as an observational fact. Anyone who has tried to force two like poles of magnets together has demonstrated action-at-a-distance. "Electromagnetic" radiation is then simply the result of an oscillating electrostatic force.

At the level of the atom, the Electric Universe model takes a lead from the work of Ralph Sansbury, an independent New York researcher. Foremost is the simple recognition of the basic electrical nature of matter and the primacy of the electrostatic force** in matter interactions. It also rests upon the simple assumption that the proton, neutron and electron are composed of smaller charged particles, orbiting each other in a classical sense in stable, resonant orbits. That is, the energy exchanged between those sub-particles in elastic deformation during each orbit sums to zero. Being charged, the sub-particles interact via the electrostatic force. A simple calculation shows that the sub-particles that form an electron must travel at a speed far in excess of the speed of light - some 2.5 million light-years per second, or from here to the far side of the Andromeda galaxy in one second! So the electrostatic force must act at a speed which is almost infinite on our scale for the electron to be stable. It is the stable orbital resonances of these sub-particles, both within and between particles that give rise to the phenomena of protons, neutrons, electrons and atoms. Other denizens of the particle "zoo" are merely transient resonant states of the same charged sub-particles. The so-called "creation" of matter from energetic photons is an illusion in which pre-existing matter is reorganized into new resonant states that give the impression that a particle has suddenly materialized. Antimatter is a misnomer since it too is formed from the same sub-particles as "normal" matter except that the total charge is mirrored. Matter cannot be created or annihilated.

Now, how's that for a wacky idea?

Good Math has moved to <a href="http://www.scienceblogs.com/goodmath">ScienceBlogs</a>: Physics in an Electric Universe
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Name calling too, eh? Nice to see you maintaining your usual standards. Read it again, you silly man, it's the review of Donald Scott's book The Electric Sky linked near the bottom of that page. It's a pdf file, so you'll need Acrobat or something equivalent to read it.

Preposterous rubbish from professional skeptics and physics retarded psycophants. You are stuck on skeptics and book reviews because you are not a physicist, you are a mathologist. There is not one iota of evidence to prove or even indicate nuclear fusion as the source of solar power, I repeat for the hardly hearing religious fanatics swarming this thread, not a bit of proof, none nada, zilch, zero proof. Someone call the security people and have them rubber jacketed before they bite someone.
 
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petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Your grip on physics appears to be about as good as DB's. Motion and excitation are not the source of the E in Einstein's matter-energy equivalence equation, electromagnetism is not a byproduct of static electricity, and Tesla was a pretty bright guy who made major contributions before he sank into eccentricity and crackpottery. There's no free energy to be had, there's always a cost to it.
EVERYTHING is energy.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Yep everything comes from and is energy, matter is a temporary matter. Unless it's in a battery most energy is totally free or at large in the universe isn't it? Yes of course it is.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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Yep everything comes from and is energy, matter is a temporary matter. Unless it's in a battery most energy is totally free or at large in the universe isn't it? Yes of course it is.

That, is a dream world, a fantasy. Everything has a cost. Even at the simplest level, changing matter from one state to another either takes energy or gives off energy. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
 

Dexter Sinister

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... not a bit of proof, none nada, zilch, zero proof.
So explain how either the resistive or capacitive model of the electric sun generates neutrinos, why the solar wind is electrically neutral if the sun has such a huge excess positive potential, why the Cosmic Background Explorer satellite failed to detect any hint of the massive currents the Electric Universe people claim must be everywhere, why the enormously energetic electric current necessary to power the sun generates no detectable magnetic field, what's the source the electro-motive force that powers all those undetectable currents, and why nobody at any of the EU sites seems able to do even the simplest of calculations in support of their claims, they just talk about them and never show them. Only the great EU guru Donald Scott seems capable of any mathematics, and he gets a lot of the basic physics wrong. You can't do physics without mathematics, it's how you make quantitative predictions to test against observations, and without that you don't have a usable theory, you've got just idle speculation.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Energy, Electric field strength, and Charge density[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]as a function of radial distance from the Sun's surface.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Electrical Properties of the Photosphere and Chromosphere[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The essence of the Electric Sun hypothesis is an analysis of the electrical properties of its photosphere and the chromosphere and the resulting effects on the charged particles that move across them. A radial cross-section taken through a photospheric 'granule' is shown in the three plots shown, below. The horizontal axis of each of the three plots is distance, measured radially outward, starting at a point near the bottom of the photosphere (the true surface of the Sun - which we can only observe in the umbra of sunspots). Almost every observed property of the Sun can be explained through reference to these three plots; for this reason, much of the discussion that follows makes reference to them.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The first plot shows the energy per unit (positive) charge of an ion as a function of its radial distance out from the solar surface. The units of Energy per Unit Charge are Volts, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]V[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]. The second plot, the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]E-[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]field, shows the outward radial force (toward the right) experienced by such a positive ion. The third plot shows the locations of the charge densities that will produce the first two plots. The chromosphere is the location of a plasma double layer (DL) of electrical charge. Recall that one of the properties of electric plasma is its excellent (although not perfect) conductivity. Such an excellent conductor will support only a weak electric field. Notice in the second plot that the almost ideal plasmas of the photosphere (region b to c) and the corona (from point e outward) are regions of almost zero electric field strength.[/FONT]



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]All three of these plots are related mathematically. By the laws of electrophysics: [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]E[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] = - d[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]V[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]/d[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]r[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica], and Charge density = d[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]E[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]/d[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]r[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]. In words: The value of the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]E-[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]field, at every point [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]r[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica], is the (negative of) the slope of the energy plot at that point. (The reason for the negative sign in the first equation is that the force on a positively charged particle is [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]down[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] the potential hill, not up.) The value of the charge density at each point,[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]r[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica], is the slope of the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]E-[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]field plot at that point. The two layers of opposite charge density necessary to produce the compound shaped energy curve between points c and e used to be called a 'double sheath'. Modern nomenclature calls it a 'double layer' (DL). It is a well known phenomenon in plasma discharges. Because of the DL positioned between points c and e, a +ion to the right of point e sees no electrostatic force from +ions to the left of point c. The 'primary plasma' of the corona and the 'secondary plasma' of the photosphere are separated by the DL - a well known, and often observed property of plasmas.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The energy plot shown above is valid for [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]positively charged[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]particles. Because a positive [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]E-[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]field represents an outward radial force (toward the right) per unit charge on any such particle, the region wherein the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]E-[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]field is negative (a to b) constitutes an inward force. This region of the lower photosphere is, thus, an energy barrier that positive ions must surmount in order to escape the body of the Sun. Any +ions attempting to escape outward from within the Sun must have enough energy to get over this energy barrier. So the presence of the single positive charge layer at the bottom of the tuft plasma serves as a constraint on unlimited escape of +ions from the surface of the Sun.[/FONT]


The Electric Sun



 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
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Yep, and gets it wrong right at the beginning when it says, "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The units of Energy per Unit Charge are Volts, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]V[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]."[/FONT] and goes downhill into incoherence from there. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
[/FONT]
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Yep, and gets it wrong right at the beginning when it says, "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The units of Energy per Unit Charge are Volts, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]V[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]."[/FONT] and goes downhill into incoherence from there. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
[/FONT]

But you content that asymmetric force applied to skyscrapers morphs into perfect symmetrical freefall completely at odds with the known laws of physics and the math. It is therefore apparent that one of three conditions exist.
A/ you are a very bad at physics
B/ you believe in god
f/ you are afraid of the dark
So it is very difficult for a leading hedge scientist like me to grant that you have a valid opinion about much of anything when such a simple mechanical action stumps you.
 
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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You can't have good physics without good math. If your quantities are out of order, your explanation doesn't make much physical sense...

The simple lever predates the math by at least a hundred millinia, and even a chimp can lever a grub from it's hidey hole without the math. Or is it your opinion that the chimp in question attended MIT. Maybe you don't believe the physics in a clam shell or a barn swallows mud nest. I can have all kinds of physics without the math.
 
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#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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The simple lever predates the math by at least a hundred millinia, and even a chimp can lever a grub from it's hidey hole without the math. Or is it your opinion that the chimp in question attended MIT. Maybe you don't believe the physics in a clam shell or a barn swallows mud nest. I can have all kinds of physics without the math.

No you can't... The math in physics give us quantitative information so we can interpret results and accurately predict results. Without math, physics is meaningless tinkering.
 

Machjo

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Politician: Doctor, I keep hearing voices in my head.

Doctor: What does the voice say?

Politician: It says: Wow, you can see for miles in here!