Death knell for AGW

waldo

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Oct 19, 2009
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As far as the IPCC goes, there are two sides to every debate, and the whole "settled science" thing that doesn't seem so settled, and the 90+% whatever of scientists thing that also was blown out'a proportion among many other
claims that have blown up or been disproven too my satisfaction have made me suspicious of the claims and endorsements of the IPCC over time.

the "science is settled" is nothing more than a meme perpetuated by deniers. No legitimate scientists would suggest the science... is settled. The question is whether it's "settled enough" to draw conclusions and act upon them; i.e., is enough known within degrees of certainty to support summary assessment and resolution options. Whether you accept the consensus (at whatever percentage), that has nothing to do with the IPCC. To-date, there has never been an error noted within any technical based IPCC report; within the AR4 iteration, there were a series of errors associated with WG2/3 reports... errors that had little bearing and no impact on actual IPCC summary assessments or position statements. These errors were simply a reflection on quality control and the lack of continuity across all reports; they also resulted in tightened process controls introduced as a part of the most recent AG5 report cycle.

The IPCC is a political (& in turn economic) body who's continued existence is dependent on Climate Change being proven as man-made, so it doesn't seem to benefit from being unbiased if presenting both sides of the issue may lead to its own demise. That makes me suspicious of IPCC claims especially following some of the scandals over the last few years. The UN is a political (& in turn economic) body, and the IPCC being a division of the UN, it can't fall too far from its lineage.

the IPCC has a very limited permanent structure; the vast majority of it's participants are volunteers, many with bonafide scientific credentials. Your premise holds to the IPCC excluding science/evidence that would be contrary to AGW... this is absolutely false and suggests to me you've never cracked an IPCC report. Perhaps you fail to recognize that the IPCC mandate is one given to it and reinforced iteratively by world governments... outside of the technical based reports, any summary assessment report intended for policymakers is written cooperatively between the IPCC and world government representatives - nothing appears within 'policymaker reports' without the expressed agreement of world governments.
 
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Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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Regina, Saskatchewan
the "science is settled" is nothing more than a meme perpetuated by deniers.....

The whole "deniers" thing doesn't add to your position. A Muslim that has
to label anyone outside of their sect as an Infidel gives me the heeby-jeebies,
as does this labeling. Just say'n...

the IPCC has a very limited permanent structure; the vast majority of it's participants are volunteers, many with bonafide scientific credentials. Your premise holds to the IPCC excluding science/evidence that would be contrary to AGW... this is absolutely false and suggests to me you've never cracked an IPCC report. Perhaps you fail to recognize where that the IPCC mandate is one given to it and reinforced iteratively by world governments... outside of the technical based reports, any summary assessment report intended for policymakers is written cooperatively between the IPCC and world government representatives - nothing appears within 'policymaker reports' without the expressed agreement of world governments.

I have never cracked an IPCC report, though I've skimmed the guts of the
"copy&pastes" that have hit this form. Governments have agendas, and
I understand the concept of "follow the money." Without AGW being a
crisis, what happens to the IPCC? Its continued existence depends
upon GW being predominantly man-made. That doesn't raise a red flag
for you? Would you agree that, concerning the IPCC, when it needs to
error in the side of caution, it would error towards GW being predominantly
man-made?
 

Zipperfish

House Member
Apr 12, 2013
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I have never cracked an IPCC report, though I've skimmed the guts of the
"copy&pastes" that have hit this form. Governments have agendas, and
I understand the concept of "follow the money." Without AGW being a
crisis, what happens to the IPCC? Its continued existence depends
upon GW being predominantly man-made. That doesn't raise a red flag
for you? Would you agree that, concerning the IPCC, when it needs to
error in the side of caution, it would error towards GW being predominantly
man-made?

Meh. There's lots of money on all sides of this debate.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
26,264
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113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Meh. There's lots of money on all sides of this debate.

Yes! On all sides!!! None are impartial, so weigh & measure each.
The $$$ at stake is staggering. Most people though are somewhat
selfish at heart (I think it's a survival strategy) and though perhaps
even subconsciously are looking out for #1 being themselves and
their own benefactors. If your continued survival depends on
something existing, your going to make sure it exists.
 

Zipperfish

House Member
Apr 12, 2013
3,688
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Vancouver
Yes! On all sides!!! None are impartial, so weigh & measure each.
The $$$ at stake is staggering. Most people though are somewhat
selfish at heart (I think it's a survival strategy) and though perhaps
even subconsciously are looking out for #1 being themselves and
their own benefactors. If your continued survival depends on
something existing, your going to make sure it exists.

I'm pretty sure it exists. Who knows how bad though. Not me.
 

waldo

House Member
Oct 19, 2009
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The whole "deniers" thing doesn't add to your position. A Muslim that has to label anyone outside of their sect as an Infidel gives me the heeby-jeebies, as does this labeling. Just say'n...

get over it; it's a matter-of-fact label without pejorative attachment... just say'n

I have never cracked an IPCC report, though I've skimmed the guts of the "copy&pastes" that have hit this form. Governments have agendas, and I understand the concept of "follow the money." Without AGW being a crisis, what happens to the IPCC? Its continued existence depends upon GW being predominantly man-made. That doesn't raise a red flag for you? Would you agree that, concerning the IPCC, when it needs to error in the side of caution, it would error towards GW being predominantly
man-made?

with little to no foundation, reference or background, you're going out of your way to raise question/doubt. Your 'governments have agendas' & 'follow the money' references are nothing but conspiratorial nonsense. Again, the IPCC has but a smallish contingent of full-time employees; the bulk of it's work is performed by volunteers... there is no self-perpetuating goliath bureaucracy "fighting for its gainful employment survival". Your last sentence sums up your self-admitted statement that you've never actually reviewed an IPCC report... you also, obviously, don't realize the review process is fully transparent with all meetings transscribed for the public domain. Notwithstanding, skeptics (legitimate, or not) have acted as report contributors/reviewers... and in the most recent report iteration cycle, anyone could sign up to be a report reviewer... as did some of the most prolific "blog scientists" of the denialsphere!
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
113,363
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Low Earth Orbit
I've gone through IPCC literature and came across a damming statement of CO2/GHGs and temperature losing correlation after a point as found in ice and sediment horizons during the past 13 interglacial periods.

Interesting stuff. As far as the mean for the Holocene Optimum, we've finally warmed up to the interglacial normal. Hooray for us.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Saint John, N.B.
get over it; it's a matter-of-fact label without pejorative attachment... just say'n

Bullshyte.

"Denier" is a term usual reserved for the psychotic evil scum engaged in Holocaust denial, and the term is intended to equate the two sets of "deniers".

I personally embrace the term as I refuse to be put off by Orwellian semantic games played by manipulative idiots and liars.

But the use of the term is simply another reason to disregard the rantings of con artists involved in GW hysteria.

BTW, Your greenie from me was a sleepy mistake....don't let it go to your head.
 

waldo

House Member
Oct 19, 2009
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Bullshyte.

"Denier" is a term usual reserved for the psychotic evil scum engaged in Holocaust denial, and the term is intended to equate the two sets of "deniers".

I personally embrace the term as I refuse to be put off by Orwellian semantic games played by manipulative idiots and liars.

But the use of the term is simply another reason to disregard the rantings of con artists involved in GW hysteria.

BTW, Your greenie from me was a sleepy mistake....don't let it go to your head.

it's a legitimate English word; those that presume to co-opt it for Nazi attachment are delusional. Again, it's a matter-of-fact label that succinctly identifies a position that doesn't accept (degrees of) AGW/GW/CC... again, I don't attach pejorative intent to it. I mean, one could use the word "non-acceptor"... I guess. But what the hey, weren't you the guy a short while ago that stated you were proud of your denier position?
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
It's really such a fine line in this circumstance.

Any of the aforementioned will fit, maybe we can just add them all together in hyphenated fashion in order to truly capture the essence of the movement