Danish newspapers reprint controversial Prophet Muhammad cartoon
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
No, they both have an equal amount of responsibility for the situation being created..... nobody's innocent in creating this situation, except those who are caught in the middle of the actions.
Gee, I lit that match that made the Gas Station explode, but it was the gas station that killed everyone, so it's not my fault.
What I agreed to was what you pointed out about how the Jewish community would react to such a scene, and how the majority accept their reaction of offense as being just due to what they went through.... yet when we do it to Muslims, they should just get a sense of humor.
There's one big contradiction there in my view
(Unless the above is not what you ment)
Mohamed and the girl were betrothed when the girl was six years old. He didn't consummate the marriage until she was nine. I personally find this behavior disgusting and if Mohamed did this in today's world, he would be ridiculed all over the world.
The point Prax was that a "symbol" in the case of the Nazi regime, the swastika wasn't adopted as a symbol that suggested or promoted the argument for the extermination of Jews, and the "symbol" of Mohammed ( a symbol by the way that's never been "created" by faithful Moslems) as the symbol of religious beliefs among Moslems can stimulate radical passion....
We associate the swastika with the "Holocaust", not as the symbol of a fascist regime that set about holding the world hostage to its ideologies...but our focus has been intentionally limited to equating....swastika.....Holocaust.....= Anti-Jew.....
When we manipulate symbols we manipulate the abstraction. We infer from the manipulation and the abstraction those things that impact us emotionally....
Why should the Moslem's genre of radicalism (as radicalism exists in all religions) NOT bring as much focus to bear on that particular symbol?
Because a Christian doesn't have a problem with pictures of the Iquisition being made into wallpaper or the sight of Benedictine and Franciscan monks presiding over mass executions of natives all over the world.....doesn't mean a damn thing. The Roman Catholic Church has demonstrated its disdain for "freedom of expression" from deciding what "gender-association" is acceptable to the "church" to maintaining the oppression of women in the clergy for generations....
Like I said before....you go kill a few hundred thousand of their sons brothers and sisters and they get all uppity..... what would any good Christian do when the Commies or the Naziis or the XYZ....economic/political fanatics of the world targetted them for death and destruction? Simply roll over and accept that you can kill me but my symbols live on................?!
We associate the swastika with the "Holocaust", not as the symbol of a fascist regime that set about holding the world hostage to its ideologies...but our focus has been intentionally limited to equating....swastika.....Holocaust.....= Anti-Jew.....
When we manipulate symbols we manipulate the abstraction. We infer from the manipulation and the abstraction those things that impact us emotionally....
Why should the Moslem's genre of radicalism (as radicalism exists in all religions) NOT bring as much focus to bear on that particular symbol?
Because a Christian doesn't have a problem with pictures of the Iquisition being made into wallpaper or the sight of Benedictine and Franciscan monks presiding over mass executions of natives all over the world.....doesn't mean a damn thing. The Roman Catholic Church has demonstrated its disdain for "freedom of expression" from deciding what "gender-association" is acceptable to the "church" to maintaining the oppression of women in the clergy for generations....
Like I said before....you go kill a few hundred thousand of their sons brothers and sisters and they get all uppity..... what would any good Christian do when the Commies or the Naziis or the XYZ....economic/political fanatics of the world targetted them for death and destruction? Simply roll over and accept that you can kill me but my symbols live on................?!
Still no different then what other religions and cultures practiced back then, so based on the era, I don't see it as a big thing, since it was apparently the "Normal" thing to do..... I don't agree with it, but that's the way it was.... I don't see how this makes him any worse then anybody else back then. And Christians also had pre-arranged marriages between older men and girls around that age.... although usually the average age was around 13/14.... a child is still a child. This situation is irrelevent.
Praxius
I think so....
Radical Moslems will use these cartoons as fuel for their argument that they're being made victims of Christianity or Jews or the Danish press....so long a a victim mentality can be supported and made to reverberate across generations...through symbols and religious artefacts and "icons"....there will be a "justification" for everything from taking land that doesn't belong to you and placing millions of people under oppression to killing anyone who "defiles" your most "sacred" symbols.
It's unpopular right now (and for some time) to even entertain the possibility that the numbers game of the Holocaust has been manipulated to create even greater victimhood...its a volumetric relationship apparently.... while the "right" of Jews around the world to build synagogues and tromp down with hobnailed boots on anyone even questioning for a moment...the "right" of Jews to celebrate their victimhood has even managed to turn otherwise intelligent men into raving lunatics when it comes to discussing the Middle East or anything to do with the Jews and Judaism.....
There's been far less focus and passion about the fraud of the Roman Catholic Church hiding pedophiles from legal process than there's been about the "right" of the Catholic Church and schools supported by them...in expanding and entrenching the right to alienate and ostracize homosexuals as a "duty".....
When we see bombs falling and bloody corpses....as product of an invaision by the United States in Iraq and we see neighborhoods bombed into oblivion by the Israeli airforce the message is that we are victims.....
Moslems need their victimhood as well......
I think so....
Radical Moslems will use these cartoons as fuel for their argument that they're being made victims of Christianity or Jews or the Danish press....so long a a victim mentality can be supported and made to reverberate across generations...through symbols and religious artefacts and "icons"....there will be a "justification" for everything from taking land that doesn't belong to you and placing millions of people under oppression to killing anyone who "defiles" your most "sacred" symbols.
It's unpopular right now (and for some time) to even entertain the possibility that the numbers game of the Holocaust has been manipulated to create even greater victimhood...its a volumetric relationship apparently.... while the "right" of Jews around the world to build synagogues and tromp down with hobnailed boots on anyone even questioning for a moment...the "right" of Jews to celebrate their victimhood has even managed to turn otherwise intelligent men into raving lunatics when it comes to discussing the Middle East or anything to do with the Jews and Judaism.....
There's been far less focus and passion about the fraud of the Roman Catholic Church hiding pedophiles from legal process than there's been about the "right" of the Catholic Church and schools supported by them...in expanding and entrenching the right to alienate and ostracize homosexuals as a "duty".....
When we see bombs falling and bloody corpses....as product of an invaision by the United States in Iraq and we see neighborhoods bombed into oblivion by the Israeli airforce the message is that we are victims.....
Moslems need their victimhood as well......
Seriously, what is wrong with the Islamic folks?
A Jordanian organisation wants to prosecute the Danes responsible for the printing of the Mohammed cartoonsEleven Danes have been summoned to appear before the Jordanian pubic prosecutor to answer charges of blasphemy and threatening the national peace. They include the cartoonist who drew one of the Mohammed cartoons and editors from 10 of the 17 newspapers that reprinted them.
The group behind the announcement is called The Prophet Unites Us, a union of Jordanian media organisations, organisations and private individuals.
'The public prosecutor decided to summon the Danes for a series of criminal offences. Now the Danes have to meet in Jordan,' said Zakaria al-Sheikh, the group's general secretary, to Politiken newspaper.
He explained that the public prosecutor will ask the Danish embassy for help in contacting Danish officials to arrange the meeting of the editors.
Osama al-Bettar, the group's lawyer, said that if the Danes do not appear, the next step will be to inform Interpol and seek their arrest.
http://www.cphpost.dk/get/107525.html
Gosh, if I were one of those guys, I'd be the first on the plane. Surely it would be a fair hearing...
:roll:
A Jordanian organisation wants to prosecute the Danes responsible for the printing of the Mohammed cartoonsEleven Danes have been summoned to appear before the Jordanian pubic prosecutor to answer charges of blasphemy and threatening the national peace. They include the cartoonist who drew one of the Mohammed cartoons and editors from 10 of the 17 newspapers that reprinted them.
The group behind the announcement is called The Prophet Unites Us, a union of Jordanian media organisations, organisations and private individuals.
'The public prosecutor decided to summon the Danes for a series of criminal offences. Now the Danes have to meet in Jordan,' said Zakaria al-Sheikh, the group's general secretary, to Politiken newspaper.
He explained that the public prosecutor will ask the Danish embassy for help in contacting Danish officials to arrange the meeting of the editors.
Osama al-Bettar, the group's lawyer, said that if the Danes do not appear, the next step will be to inform Interpol and seek their arrest.
http://www.cphpost.dk/get/107525.html
Gosh, if I were one of those guys, I'd be the first on the plane. Surely it would be a fair hearing...
:roll:
What a joke, eh? Why aren't they prosecuting the imams that drew the three most outrageous cartoons? People tend to forget that there were originally 15 cartoons being complained about....three drawn by the complaining Imams themselves (or commissioned by them anyway) in order to incite.
It's all a crock.
Don't worry though, all religions are the same.
I think you entirely missed my point.
Everyone is quick to defend rioting, pillaging and killing on account of cultural sensitivity, but drawing a cartoon to defend your values....that's going too far.
What's going on right here at home with the HRC in BC and MacLeans is the perfect example of what the cartoonist were speaking out against with their cartoon. Turns out they were right.
And here's some loving, level-headed, wonderously sweet media from the other side.......thought you might like a look at kiddie shows on Hamas TV......
Got to admit, I find this a little hard to believe....
Maybe I'm just an innocent......
http://1389blog.com/2008/02/12/evil-in-a-cute-cuddly-package-from-hamas/
Got to admit, I find this a little hard to believe....
Maybe I'm just an innocent......
http://1389blog.com/2008/02/12/evil-in-a-cute-cuddly-package-from-hamas/
Danish cartoonists proven right again. Message from Pakistan: "shut up or we'll kill you!"
They said that the delegation would also tell the EU that if such acts against Islam are not controlled, more attacks on the EU diplomatic missions abroad could not be ruled out.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C06%5C08%5Cstory_8-6-2008_pg7_14
They said that the delegation would also tell the EU that if such acts against Islam are not controlled, more attacks on the EU diplomatic missions abroad could not be ruled out.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C06%5C08%5Cstory_8-6-2008_pg7_14
1st, I haven't even begun to defend them, and just because I don't defend this retarded cartoon fiasco and defend your side of the argument doesn't make me defending their actions either.
2ndly, I am not telling you in excuse that they have every right to act the way they might to whatever someone might say or do.... I am telling you the reality of human reaction and hate. You dish hate out, you're gonna get hate back. You insult their religion and way of life, wtf do you think they will or might do, based on common sense and past history? You and I both know how they feel about their religion, and you and I both know what happens when you insult them.
3rdly, Drawing a cartoon to defend your "values" is just plain stupid, and I should know... I'm a cartoonist.
I think you're completely ignorant on the background of the Danish's hate towards Muslims. It's got nothing to do with freedom of speech, and if it was a cartoon done by someone in, let's say Sweeden, it probably wouldn't have been as big of a deal.
Here's a little snippet of the common (Or what it seems like) mentality in Denmark:
DANISH HATE SPEECH AND XENOPHOBIA
http://www.panhumanism.com/xenophobia/index.php
"These quotes are but a few examples of hate speech and xenophobia in the political debate in Denmark, where it has been a widespread and increasing phenomenon since the mid-nineties. Fortunately, in the recent years there has been a growing international awareness of the fact, that this type of propaganda - which in most Western countries is limited to racist extremists without political influence - constitutes an alarming tendency in mainstream Danish politics.
To prevent further mainstream acceptance of outspoken propaganda labelled as mere »criticism of Islam« or as innocent »concern about integration«, it is imperative to document the actual contents of Danish xenophobic rhetorics - and speak out against it.
As mentioned this is only a translation of a few examples - houndreds of xenophobic and islamophobic quotes in Danish can be found [URL="http://www.humanisme.dk/hate-speech"]here[/URL] - (more will eventually be translated to English)."
-----------------------------------------------------
"All western countries are infiltrated by Muslims. Some of them talk to us nicely while they are waiting to grow in numbers and remove us."
"Islam threatens our future, and we shall prevent Islam from setting any agenda in Europe. This faith belongs to a dark past and its political goal is as destructive as that of Nazism. Islam should not have the possibility to take Europe away from us."
"All Muslims should leave Denmark. This is harshly put because there are human beings among them. But how can we differentiate?"
"Islam has been a terrorist organisation from its very beginning."
"Where Christianity rules, matters are related to the love of the tings that one holds dear. On the other hand, where Islam rules, matters are related to a higher selfrightousness which logically culminates in an all consuming hatred and a scary urge to exterminate other people."
"Judaism, because of its Jesus-negating teachings, is an apostasy and blasphemy."
"Islam is not a religion in any traditional sense. It is a terrorist organisation which tries to gain world domination through violence."
^ And most of those quotes could be easily related to how Christianity was and actually still is in some degree or another. One could also relate much of this hate speech to the common things being spread around about the Jewish people during WWII..... the only difference is that Muslims won't just lay down and take their beatings by those who ridicule them continually due to their own ignorance of their ways. They generalize the entire muslim population as extremists.
And speaking about extremists views, I imagine the other side of the argument tends to focus on all the evil things and extremist ways some Christians live, such as cross burnings, beating up homosexuals, the crusades, racist and ignorant of those who are different from them...... sure it's not the majority of the Christian population, but neither is it the majority of the Muslim population that's extreme in the same sense. It's when you start to generalize against an entire culture and make them out to be more evil then yourselves, when in fact our cultures are not that much better off, if so, by only a few decades of going through the same things.
The problem is that most tend to view the Danish cartoons as a joke and for the Muslims to lighten up, but this has been yet another expression of propaganda that has been through Denmark's political and social environments for a long time against Muslims and those different from them that many of us don't hear about or see too often. The Danish have been quoted as claiming Islam isn't any better then Nazism, and yet, they're acting on their own accord in the same manner in which the Nazis villianized the Jews.
But nobody ever bothers to look that far back in history to learn anything, so I wouldn't expect any of you to put two and two together on this.
Like I said, I'm not excusing some extremist's actions, but when you do something that you know fully well what the outcome will be, don't come crying to me about it when you could have easily prevented it from happening in the first place by using some common sense about the situation.
Religion is bunk. Muslims need to be reminded of this daily, and Christians too. Tis just dated software from the crazy place called Asia.