Danish newspapers reprint controversial Prophet Muhammad cartoon

[Praxius]

You obviously don't understand freedom of speech.....that must include the right to be offensive, or it doesn't exist at all...........

Wrong... there are laws that protect people form hate speech, sexist remarks, death threats, etc..... we do not have absolute freedom of speech in our society.

And you're right.... it doesn't exist at all.... get used to it.

BTW, the Danish cartoonists (yes, there were a number) were invited to submit cartoons of the prophet in a demonstration of the paper's refusal to be intimidated by threats on other subjects printed.

Then they're the one's responsible for the problems related. Everybody and their retarded inbred sister knew exactly what would occur if you insult their religion, and they did it anyways. They were enablers of the situation and they should accept their responsibility for what they did.

AND the difference between your idea of a cartoon about black slaves is simple........one is an attack on a people, the other is an attack on a belief.

Get a clue, their belif is their way of life and their way of life are themselves, the people.... you attack their religion, you attack them... don't agree? too bad, that's the reality you have to face. They are a different society just like China, with different beliefs and ways of life, and just because they don't line up to your set of standards, doesn't make them any less relevent.

Besides, were there such a cartoon about blacks...........there would still be no riots, no murders...........

BULL..... SH*T! You best start learning about others who are different from you. It's a bigger world then you seem to make it out as. Check out everything that happened in Katrina, what happened to Rodney King.... Riots, People got shot, beaten, raped.... do you read any history whatsoever?

Freedom of Speech means freedom to say anything short of yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theatre..........it is NOT simply freedom to say anything that the left agrees with.

WTF are you smoking? Seriously?

'Freedom of Speech means freedom to say anything short of yelling "FIRE" crowded theatre'

Any why is shouting Fire restricted? Explain that one too me.... once you figure that out, you should also see that there are many other things that are restricted that you can not publicly express.

Oh and newsflash.... you can yell Fire in a crowded theatre for multiple reasons.... one being that there is an actual Fire.

 

[Praxius]

Well, they'll reap what they sow. If you know full well what will happen when you print these cartoons (they'd have to be from an alternate universe not to expect riots), well that is inciting riots. It's the same principle as yelling fire in the crowded theater. The results are expected and the action is negligent. Maybe if this were 100 years or 1000 years in the future, then Muslims might not be so uptight about it, that's hard to say. But today we know full well what happens. There will be death threats, burning effigies, damaged property, and possibly people beat up in the street.

Exactly.... And to try and push Christains up on some pedistal of some great example of what we should all strive for is an absolute joke.... They sure as hell ain't perfect today, and it wasn't even 100 years ago that they were just about as screwed up with their principles and reactions of attempting to protect their religion as anybody you can finger point today.

 

[tracy]

I think there is a difference between being aware of consequences and causing consequences. The people printing these cartoons have to be aware that some muslims around the world will again react insanely. But, I still have a hard time blaming them for the reactions of lunatics. They do have every right to print what they want and blaming them seems to infantilize muslims. It isn't as though an entire religious group is incapable of acting civilly even in the face of offensive comments. The vast majority of muslims didn't go out and try to murder anyone after the cartoon was printed the first time and they won't now. I can't accept making excuses for those nuts that would.

I do agree with Praxius that these people are similar to the fanatics that would kill doctors who provide abortions. But, we didn't start hiding our stance on abortion for fear of being murdered, did we?

 

[Praxius]

So now we are making excuses for Muslim morons who somehow see it as their duty to kill people for insulting Muhamad, who married a nine year girl when he was fifty two.

Sure why not, since there's plenty of people making excuses for ignorant morons in our societies, I see no difference.

You want to intice riots and and be enablers of what you already know will happen, then I have no sympathy for what comes your way..... unfortunatly your own ignorances will probably affect more people then just yourselves.

Oh and if racist-related black cartoon examples don't work for you, then roll back a few decades when it was perfectly fine to take jabs and insults to the Jewish community during WWII.

Oh but now we know all the evil things that occured to them while we made fun of them as they suffered, treated like dogs, experimented on and killed like a litter of kittens, and now we all feel oh so bad for the poor fellas, so we pushed a bunch of Muslims out of their homes and gave them their own country and if anybody mentions something that doesn't support Israel or the Jewish community.... they're anti-semites....

What a bunch of fk'n jokers you guys are.... you don't even see your own hypocracies and history repeating.

 

[Praxius]

How many times must i read this pathetic statement when Americans (Canadians) refer to there prophet Mohamed, if you had any idea of Muslim culture, then you would realise that he did not take this 9 year old to bed with him ,this is something you have hit on to denounce Mohamed in your own eyes ,animatedly there are Muslims who do interfere with children and some much younger than this, but you know nothing of Muslims only the things which you choose to hear ,and your ignorance of there beliefs is staggering :?:

Not to mention that Christian Sect down in Texas making all the news doing the same things they claim Mohamed did.... somehow don't come to their minds when they spout this crap.

Friggin Brilliant. :roll:

 

[Praxius]

I think there is a difference between being aware of consequences and causing consequences. The people printing these cartoons have to be aware that some muslims around the world will again react insanely. But, I still have a hard time blaming them for the reactions of lunatics.

Those Lunatics/Extremists were already in full swing at the time, the US was on their "Holy Crusade" against them.... how would they not have known reactions like this would occur?

They do have every right to print what they want and blaming them seems to infantilize muslims. It isn't as though an entire religious group is incapable of acting civilly even in the face of offensive comments.

The majority of moderate Muslims did act civilly about it, and protested quite peacefully.... yet apparently their attempts to address the problem in a civil manner didn't seem to matter, since they re-published the stupid cartoon again.

Quite honestly, I didn't even find the thing funny to begin with, let alone to publish it again..... they published it again because they directly knew what would occur, and treating those idiots like some stupid lady who spills coffee on herself and sueing because of her own idiocy doesn't help things. Our society has been seriously slacking of accepting responsibility for our actions, and I have no sympathy for those who get backlash from their actions and cry "Oh why did this happen to us, boo hoo."

The vast majority of muslims didn't go out and try to murder anyone after the cartoon was printed the first time and they won't now. I can't accept making excuses for those nuts that would.

Regardless if you accept what they do or not, they'll still be doing it regardless..... and I am not attempting to make excuses or even promoting them to commit violent acts over such things.... but the reality is that is their mentality and people need to get educated in that. What I am attempting to do is to at least see that some people understand this and perhaps figure out the proper way of avoiding these conflicts and give respect to them..... (Not the extremist, but their religion and way of life) How can we expect them to respect our way of life, when we don't respect theirs'? This has been a problem throughout history, and everytime we fix one problem with one group, we seem to just do the exact same thing to the next group until we learn to understand them as well.

But it's people like the above who think it's just grand and our right to rip the sh*t out of an entire society who makes up a good chunk of the world's population through ignorance that are a part of the problems today.

I do agree with Praxius that these people are similar to the fanatics that would kill doctors who provide abortions. But, we didn't start hiding our stance on abortion for fear of being murdered, did we?

Actually in certain States in the US, and here in Canada there have been many new laws and proceedures put in place to protect the doctors names, where they live and the people's identities who goto see them because of these type of people, so yes.... we did.

 

[Colpy]

And I seriously don't give a rats ass what the majority of the population is, there is still a minority group there that it offended.... I suppose so long as there's only a minority of gays in North America we should be able to shoot off all kinds of homophobic remarks and the sort and not think twice about it.... hell, let's go out and bash the sh*t out of some on the street next time we see some? It's not right doing that to them in our societies today, why the hell do you think it's right to do it to people outside of the country or who are part of a minority of our countries? That really shows you actually don't believe in any of those things in which our society is built apon.... and if you really want people to be won over to how wonderful our screwed up society is outside of our countries, then you don't treat them anymore differently then you would within our borders. And if you can't figure that out, I don't know what the hell to tell you.

yOU REALLY DON'T GET IT, DO YOU? tHE only REASON i RAISED THE FACT THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION WAS cHRISTIAN IS THE lack OF ANY VIOLENT REACTION TO A SERIOUS INSULT TO THE FAITH. i'M PROUD OF THEM.

sorry....caps lock....not meant as a shout.

It's irrelevent, the mentality is still the same, and there were a lot more then one or two nut case loonies who killed abortion doctors.

And if that doesn't tickle your fancy, then how about all those screwed up break off christian cults who seem to think it's just fine to marry underage girls to older men, and have incest within their familys, because they're so fokked in the skull?

As for the first, no it was not many that chose to shoot at doctors.....or there would be a hell of a lot of dead doctors. The point is a relatively large portion of Muslims are willing to take action over perceived insults to the Prophet.........the Christian religion has largely grown out of that......

As for the second.....Christian polygamy is an aberation in theworld.............Muslim polygamy?

As far as I am concerned, as long as all parties are the age of consent and willing, it is nobody's business.

When they are not willing, or not the age of consent, lock the perpetrators up.

Don't give me that sh*t... you seem to think it's just grand to pick and choose what things about our society we should abide to and protect, yet ignore the actual laws and and rights given to everybody when it comes to people who are different from us. They all go hand in hand, and when you contradict the way we're supposed to be "So Great" and express hypocracy within our principles of our society when you pick and choose who the rules should apply to and think it's just funny to insult an entire culture..... then don't be suprised when you get reactions such as any of the above, excessive or small

.

What the Hell are you talking about? I want the rules to apply to everybody....you have the right to express a belief or idea, you do not have the right to riot, destroy, threaten, or murder in an attempt to prevent the free expression of a belief or idea.....is that so hard to understand?

I don't give a damn about anyone's reaction to my expression......why should I? They should be in control of themselves......the onus is on them not to go insane over the expression of an idea.

Their insanity is not my concern......

 

[Colpy]

Wrong... there are laws that protect people form hate speech, sexist remarks, death threats, etc..... we do not have absolute freedom of speech in our society.

And you're right.... it doesn't exist at all.... get used to it.

Laws to protect people from speech are ludicrous.......making a death threat is not free speech, it is a statement of intent. Different thing altogether.

Then they're the one's responsible for the problems related. Everybody and their retarded inbred sister knew exactly what would occur if you insult their religion, and they did it anyways. They were enablers of the situation and they should accept their responsibility for what they did.

WRONG. You are the enabler by your defense of those that would muzzle us.....you enable them tp undermine our relatively free society.......

Get a clue, their belif is their way of life and their way of life are themselves, the people.... you attack their religion, you attack them... don't agree? too bad, that's the reality you have to face. They are a different society just like China, with different beliefs and ways of life, and just because they don't line up to your set of standards, doesn't make them any less relevent.

Now this pisses me off. You get a phuckin clue.....these people are IN THE WEST that I'm talking about.....WE are a different society from THEM.......they should be respecting the culture they live in.........

BULL..... SH*T! You best start learning about others who are different from you. It's a bigger world then you seem to make it out as. Check out everything that happened in Katrina, what happened to Rodney King.... Riots, People got shot, beaten, raped.... do you read any history whatsoever?

Misdirection won't help when you have no argument.....and YOU should read a little history of your own culture....you might learn how hard-won your liberty is, and how diligently it needs to be defended.

'Freedom of Speech means freedom to say anything short of yelling "FIRE" crowded theatre'

Any why is shouting Fire restricted? Explain that one too me.... once you figure that out, you should also see that there are many other things that are restricted that you can not publicly express.

Oh and newsflash.... you can yell Fire in a crowded theatre for multiple reasons.... one being that there is an actual Fire.

If you read a little history, you would know that the example of legitimate free speech being anything short of "falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic" is from an opinion of US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendall Holmes, one of the greatest legal minds of history.

Argue with him, as you obviously don't understand the basic concepts of liberty.

 

[Just the Facts]

they published it again because they directly knew what would occur, and treating those idiots like some stupid lady who spills coffee on herself and sueing because of her own idiocy doesn't help things.

No, they published it again because they wanted to emphasize the point that:

their values are their way of life and their way of life are themselves, the people.... you attack their values, you attack them... don't agree? too bad, that's the reality you have to face. They are a different society just like China, with different values and ways of life, and just because they don't line up to your set of standards, doesn't make them any less relevent.

 

[Just the Facts]

How many times must i read this pathetic statement when Americans (Canadians) refer to there prophet Mohamed, if you had any idea of Muslim culture, then you would realise that he did not take this 9 year old to bed with him ,this is something you have hit on to denounce Mohamed in your own eyes ,animatedly there are Muslims who do interfere with children and some much younger than this, but you know nothing of Muslims only the things which you choose to hear ,and your ignorance of there beliefs is staggering :?:

I know there's some discussion on this but my sense is that the overall concensus is married at 6 consumated at 9. So yes, actually, did take this 9 year old to bed with him.

Some argue that she was older but they argue with Muslim scholars. Who am I to disagree.

But anyway, getting off topic.

 

[Just the Facts]

Closer to home, I just came across this....a perfect example of the warning the Danish cartoonists were trying to express:

The magazine could also be ordered to stop publishing certain ideas and points of view.

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion...l?id=5b471cb6-2b5d-44e0-b5e0-973fda2ca5dd&p=1

 

[dj03]

So now we are making excuses for Muslim morons who somehow see it as their duty to kill people for insulting Muhamad, who married a nine year girl when he was fifty two.

I'm not making excuses for anyone, there are consequences to freedom of expression and, unfortunately, not everyone in the world plays by the same rules western society does.

8 people died and 32 were injured this week due to ripples from when this cartoon was first published. Republishing these cartoons will likely open the danish up to more violent reprisals.

This isn't an excuse, this is the reality of the world we live in. If the danish feel this cartoon is worth dying for then that is their decision to make.

 

[Just the Facts]

So the people doing the killing have no responsiblity? Must be nice. It's all up to the Danes.

I think people who think they're justified in rioting and killing because of a cartoon just need to grow up. It's the 21st century, the world is getting too small for that kind of BS.

 

[dj03]

So the people doing the killing have no responsiblity?

Only if they are held accountable by the Danish military or law enforcement.

 

[Praxius]

As for the first, no it was not many that chose to shoot at doctors.....or there would be a hell of a lot of dead doctors. The point is a relatively large portion of Muslims are willing to take action over perceived insults to the Prophet.........the Christian religion has largely grown out of that......

I agree... largely they have grown out of it.... so why not try and allow a different approach to their culture to give them the time to do so as well?

Don't forget, Islam isn't as old as Christianity.... it's younger by a couple of centuries.... you can't expect them to be on par of overall global understanding and tollerence as an older religious culture such as Christianity that has more experience in these matters and who already went through their blood-lusting eras. That's how those relgions survive.... by the sword.... hell, Christianity had their Crusade and killed a crap load of people in the name of God....

I am not trying to excuse their extremist ways, I am only trying to say they need to be approached in a different manner, rather then poking insults at them and treating them like scum. It's a chicken and egg situation.... which came first? Their violence or everybody else's persecution of them?

What the Hell are you talking about? I want the rules to apply to everybody....you have the right to express a belief or idea, you do not have the right to riot, destroy, threaten, or murder in an attempt to prevent the free expression of a belief or idea.....is that so hard to understand?

Nope, I understand it perfectly well.... but this isn't the case we're talking about.... they don't want people insulting them, treating them like one big joke, scum of the earth if you will, and this was one of many things that piled up in a short number of years while the West has been battling their kind and trying to force our way of life on them, that has added to the fire.

If you leave them to their lives and way of life, give them respect that you would want them to give you, then it shall become that way. Don't forget, Muslims haven't always been trying to kill us, they are not all evil.... heck, during WWII, they even gave many fleeing Jewish people sanctuary in their majority muslim nations from Nazi Germany.

All this crap that has devided Muslims from Jews and Christians can be traced back to what occured after WWII.

I don't give a damn about anyone's reaction to my expression......why should I? They should be in control of themselves......the onus is on them not to go insane over the expression of an idea.

Their insanity is not my concern......

So I can shoot off all kinds of things about your mother and I can expect you will be able to control yourself? Good to know, thanks..... hang on while I make a list of things to talk about your mother......

 

[Praxius]

WRONG. You are the enabler by your defense of those that would muzzle us.....you enable them tp undermine our relatively free society.......

Oh give it up, exactly how does insulting an entire culture which make up a good chunk of the world's population help your "Free Society?" The majority of Muslims do not care wtf we do with our lives, so long as we leave them alone to their lives.... you start insulting them and treating them like a racist, or an anti-semite (In their case, I guess you could call it Anti-Muslite) then you are directly getting involved, you are directly trying to cause sh*t, and when someone reacts to what you say or do.... don't come crying to me.

And just because I don't follow along with your belief on how our society "Should be" doesn't make me an enabler..... if I wanted to be an enabler, I'd goto their Jihad web sites and start telling them what a good job they're doing and to keep up the good work.

Regardless of what you think, I am trying to find a solution to the problem between our societies.... and if you don't like it, you can suck an egg, cuz I don't give a sh*t.

Now this pisses me off. You get a phuckin clue.....these people are IN THE WEST that I'm talking about.....WE are a different society from THEM.......they should be respecting the culture they live in.........

BIG BZZZZERRRPPPP!!!! WRONG AGAIN! They are a part of our culture, our way of life, they are citizens of our nations and their inputs, their beliefs, their desires are just as equally relevent as your tripe you spew everyday.... why the fook should they have to start assemilating to the Christian way of life?

That's not what you were talking about? Funny.... because that's the only explaination there is, since the Muslims which live in our countries already respect our countries and ways of life. When was the last time you seen muslims within our nations start rioting, killing and blowing things up near your home?

The answer is they haven't, because they are not what you seem to think they are.

Once again.... Get a clue. Our nations are a democarcy (Or so I once thought) and if they want to change our societies in a certain way, then they have just as much right as anybody else.

Hell, if you want to keep going along with that mentality, perhaps we should all abide to the Native American way of life, since they were here before us, and perhaps we should give them all back their lands..... oh but wait, that doesn't suit your agenda, so we'll forget about the Natives like we always do. :angry3: I forgot... Christians are the center of the universe and they're always right.

Misdirection won't help when you have no argument.....and YOU should read a little history of your own culture....you might learn how hard-won your liberty is, and how diligently it needs to be defended.

Psh.... I've read more then enough about our history, which is why I am at the position I currently am. I'm fed up with our ignorant mentalities towards those different from us, and I'm sick of people like you who think it's justified and also funny to degrade those who are different from the majority in which surrounds you, just so you can keep thinking that you have such a great life, and continually ignore the problems that face each of us everyday.... there's always a scape goat through time in order to keep society civil and obedient.

Oh we're being d*cked around by our own governments and working our asses off to fill their pockets with profit, being raped at the pumps for our money, being taxed for retarded sh*t that shouldn't be taxed, more and more of our so-called freedoms being ripped away from us for our own "Security"...... oh but hey.... at least we're better of then so-in-so.... so we might has well shut up and remain bent over to take whatever our governments want to shove up our arses day in and day out......

Yeah... whatever.

If you read a little history, you would know that the example of legitimate free speech being anything short of "falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic" is from an opinion of US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendall Holmes, one of the greatest legal minds of history.

Too bad he's from the US though.... Canada has more restrictions on freedom of speech then down in the US.... get used to it.

Argue with him, as you obviously don't understand the basic concepts of liberty.

I'll argue with anybody I damn well please.... you will never learn anything for yourself if you don't bother to question the things surrounding you, and just because some joe-blow no-name laywer from the US says something, doesn't make it so.

Just like how Einstein wasn't right all the time.... we're all still human don't forget.

Added:

Oh, and when I start revolving my life around what some No-Name US Lawyer says..... shoot me.

 

[Praxius]

No, they published it again because they wanted to emphasize the point that:

So in other words you acknowlege both side's point of view, yet don't seem to understand how this current conflict between the two societies will just keep repeating and looping over and over again until most of the human on the planet are dead by either terrorist attacks or military action? (Take your pick)

It's irrelevent who started what and when, it's about what is currently going on and how it can be stopped and prevented from happeneing again..... and publishing hate literature isn't going to solve anything.

 

[MikeyDB]

And what's wrong with Saudi Arabia....as long as you keep that family rolling in money their religion is just fine....right?

Now you go and arm the Isralis and funnel resources into a war that's been raging for sixty years...invade a few Moslem countries and destroy a few thousand Islamic people and they get all bent out of shape over a cartoon.....go figure!

Everyone wear a Swastika and march around town and see how long it will take for the Jews to claim racial oppression and victimization.....

 

[Praxius]

I'm not making excuses for anyone, there are consequences to freedom of expression and, unfortunately, not everyone in the world plays by the same rules western society does.

8 people died and 32 were injured this week due to ripples from when this cartoon was first published. Republishing these cartoons will likely open the danish up to more violent reprisals.

This isn't an excuse, this is the reality of the world we live in. If the danish feel this cartoon is worth dying for then that is their decision to make.

Agreed.. and that's the point I'm trying to make.

It doesn't matter how many times you publish the stupid thing, the reaction will still be the same.

Do you guys actually think they'll just go "Oh well we're bored now, let's move on to making pickles?"

It's reality.... you can express whatever freedom of speech you damn well please, but don't cry foul when those different from you react in a way you don't like because of your actions.... simple fact... it has nothing to do with freedom of speech.... it's reaction to action.

This is also why I don't go around bitching out people's mothers, because there is a very good chance I'll get a couple of swings or gunshots directed my way from those I offended. It's basic human reaction in everybody at some point in time in their lives..... you push the right personal button on anybody and they'll react like any other human would..... with rage.

 

[Praxius]

And what's wrong with Saudi Arabia....as long as you keep that family rolling in money their religion is just fine....right?

Now you go and arm the Isralis and funnel resources into a war that's been raging for sixty years...invade a few Moslem countries and destroy a few thousand Islamic people and they get all bent out of shape over a cartoon.....go figure!

Everyone wear a Swastika and march around town and see how long it will take for the Jews to claim racial oppression and victimization.....

Agreed....