CRTC approves usage-based internet billing

[Praxius]

Gee, I guess the lines and the network are all their for free and to service that is free also.

I guess because I can I should rip off movies and music via the internet as well.

It's called stealing, just like a New Democrat to think everything is free.

And just like a troll to ignore things already said and covered..... I already noted that telephone lines and satellites are owned by companies who built them and put them up in the first place. I wasn't even suggesting using those.

Come on Avro, put that little nugget you call a brain to work and tell me who actually owns the Internet.

And don't forget Av, the Internet and a Network are two different things.

And where did I say anything about ripping off movies and music?? Or are the hippo fairies whispering things in your ears again?

Oh and it's There, not Their..... one notes ownership, the other is a location..... figure out your grammar.

I suppose it never fathomed to you that people who use the internet can still pay legally for movies and music by using the internet...... have you ever heard of something called Netflix or ITunes?

No..... I suppose you're still using one of those old wooden telephones with the crank and you get online by making little beeping and squeels with your voice.

 

[petros]

How can my state of the art 100% digital DSLTV use less bandwidth than downloading or streaming? Is DSLTV a threat to the coax clan?

 

[Avro]

Aren't they doing that right now anyway? They're the ones pushing for the freedom to have flat rates while the CRTC is trying to inject some sort of socialistic principle to bring down rates for regular users.

The end result has to be the average consumer - it always has to be the average consumer. Regardless of how the industry is structured, your regular Joe should not be getting screwed over, otherwise we're doing something wrong.

We can avoid this by either by having a free market, or strict regulatory principles. I would choose the latter as there is no way in hell anyone is bringing down these giants even if we accommodated the free-est of markets.

I'll take the free market.

 

[Andem]

And where did I say anything about ripping off movies and music?? Or are the hippo fairies whispering things in your ears again?

I hear ya. Even just one of the weekly backups I download for this site would put me over any bandwidth limit in Canada, even if I bought 'insurance'.

 

[Avro]

And just like a troll to ignore things already said and covered..... I already noted that telephone lines and satellites are owned by companies who built them and put them up in the first place. I wasn't even suggesting using those.

Come on Avro, put that little nugget you call a brain to work and tell me who actually owns the Internet.

And don't forget Av, the Internet and a Network are two different things.

And where did I say anything about ripping off movies and music?? Or are the hippo fairies whispering things in your ears again?

Oh and it's There, not Their..... one notes ownership, the other is a location..... figure out your grammar.

I suppose it never fathomed to you that people who use the internet can still pay legally for movies and music by using the internet...... have you ever heard of something called Netflix or ITunes?

No..... I suppose you're still using one of those old wooden telephones with the crank and you get online by making little beeping and squeels with your voice.

Wow, what a angry little girl you are.

Open up the market and let it decide the value of the service.

 

[mentalfloss]

I'll take the free market.

Okay, I'll hear you out if you can put forth a convincing hypothetical on this.

It doesn't seem to me that companies like Teksavvy are making any headway or causing the big three to change their stance. An aggressive government can provide more incentives if they can regulate the market in such a way that these smaller companies hold more sway or if they can punish the larger companies for overcharging and stifling reasonable services.

It's somewhat admirable to see the conservative slant give more freedom to consumers by fighting for small businesses like Teksavvy, but even if they can shun the CRTC's decision, who is to say that anything will change in the current market? Bell had a monopoly for how long now in this 'free' market? I dunno, in a free market, it might take a very long time before these greedy corps can give up control - and the longer they hold on, the worse it is for the consumer (and general public).

 

[Avro]

Okay, I'll hear you out if you can put forth a convincing hypothetical on this.

It doesn't seem to me that companies like Teksavvy are making any headway or causing the big three to change their stance. An aggressive government can provide more incentives if they can regulate the market in such a way that these smaller companies hold more sway or if they can punish the larger companies for overcharging and stifling reasonable services.

It's somewhat admirable to see the conservative slant give more freedom to consumers by fighting for small businesses like Teksavvy, but even if they can shun the CRTC's decision, who is to say that anything will change in the current market? Bell had a monopoly for how long now in this 'free' market? I dunno, in a free market, it might take a very long time before these greedy corps can give up control - and the longer they hold on, the worse it is for the consumer (and general public).

We haven't had an open market in Canada.

Rates are much lower in Europe....why?

If you can show me it is due to government interference I will concede.

 

[Andem]

We haven't had an open market in Canada.

Rates are much lower in Europe....why?

If you can show me it is due to government interference I will concede.

Because we don't have an organization like the CRTC telling companies how they are to do business.

I'm happy that there is nobody here to tell me I'm not allowed to have an unlimited 50Mbit uplink.

 

[Avro]

Because we don't have an organization like the CRTC telling companies how they are to do business.

I'm happy that there is nobody here to tell me I'm not allowed to have an unlimited 50Mbit uplink.

Umm.....we do have the CRTC.

Nobody said you weren't allowed, you'd just have to pay for it.

Perhaps I'm wrong.

I'm willing to listen for examples on heavily regulated markets being cheaper.

Canada is regulated and has the highest rates.

 

[mentalfloss]

We haven't had an open market in Canada.

Rates are much lower in Europe....why?

If you can show me it is due to government interference I will concede.

Oh thank you for all these options lol

ehh.. I don't think that's really fair unless we're looking how the market conditions have changed. Look, I'm not saying that a free market is bad, but if it fosters monopolies and unfair practices then intervention might be necessary. It all depends on the individual industry. You can't just point to another market and say - 'see, they're doing just fine.'

 

[Andem]

Umm.....we do have the CRTC.

Nobody said you weren't allowed, you'd just have to pay for it.

Perhaps I'm wrong.

I'm willing to listen for examples on heavily regulated markets being cheaper.

Canada is regulated and has the highest rates.

You're making no sense. By your logic, higher prices with regulation are better.

The CRTC allowed Bell to change the pricing plan which means no more Unlimited Internet, not even if you want to pay for it.

Edit: You *DO* realize I'm in Germany and not Canada?

 

[Avro]

Oh thank you for all these options lol

ehh.. I don't think that's really fair unless we're looking how the market conditions have changed. Look, I'm not saying that a free market is bad, but if it fosters monopolies and unfair practices then intervention might be necessary. It all depends on the individual industry. You can't just point to another market and say - 'see, they're doing just fine.'

You are advocating a heavily regulated market, just like a few examples where this works in this area.

You're making no sense. By your logic, higher prices with regulation are better.

The CRTC allowed Bell to change the pricing plan which means no more Unlimited Internet, not even if you want to pay for it.

Edit: You *DO* realize I'm in Germany and not Canada?

We are in a regulated market and have the highest prices.

Is Germany regulated?

What are the prices like?

 

[petros]

Think this out for a minute. There are multiple companies offerintg services over a leased network that was built on the taxpayer's back. If they start cranking up their profits for access then you can be guaranteed those who do own the network(s) will up their rates too.

Then you'll al complain again and the taxpayers will be forced to pay for and fire up another sattelite to encourage more competition.

Oi ya yoi ya yoi.

 

[Andem]

I know Canada is regulated.

Here I get a 50Mbit, unmetered and completely unregulated, ie: no traffic shaping connection for 30€/month WITH a flat-rate home phone service, taxes included. Also included is access to thousands of movies and television programs on the Internet. On top of that, I also got a free 150€ router for signing up.

Compare that to Canada where home phone and an only 5Mbit Internet connection with 25GB with no movie package or television service runs you around what? $100?

Edit: Oh yes. The networks here were also built on the tax-payers back and after the Telekom privatized, they received countless tax incentives to improve the network. They have to share the lines with smaller competitors.

On top of that, I pay $15/month for a 15Mbit VPN in the USA. There are absolutely no bitcaps because bandwidth is just so cheap.

 

[Avro]

I know Canada is regulated.

Here I get a 50Mbit, unmetered and completely unregulated, ie: no traffic shaping connection for 30€/month WITH a flat-rate home phone service, taxes included. Also included is access to thousands of movies and television programs on the Internet. On top of that, I also got a free 150€ router for signing up.

Compare that to Canada where home phone and an only 5Mbit Internet connection with 25GB with no movie package or television service runs you around what? $100?

Then you agree with me.

Open up the market and let it dictate the price.

 

[petros]

I know Canada is regulated.

Here I get a 50Mbit, unmetered and completely unregulated, ie: no traffic shaping connection for 30€/month WITH a flat-rate home phone service, taxes included. Also included is access to thousands of movies and television programs on the Internet. On top of that, I also got a free 150€ router for signing up.

Compare that to Canada where home phone and an only 5Mbit Internet connection with 25GB with no movie package or television service runs you around what? $100?

Depends where you live. I have Sasktel High Speed plus up to
5 Mbps with no download cap. On the same bill I get DSLTV, Home phone line, and home security for $130 a month

 

[mentalfloss]

The networks here were also built on the tax-payers back and after the Telekom privatized, they received countless tax incentives to improve the network. They have to share the lines with smaller competitors.

On top of that, I pay $15/month for a 15Mbit VPN in the USA. There are absolutely no bitcaps because bandwidth is just so cheap.

Hmm.. well that does sound good, but do you know for certain if a private market here would lend itself to tax incentives and lower prices?

 

[Johnny Utah]

The CRTC will end up killing future internet entrepreneurs who might create the next FaceBook, Napster or YouTube.

 

[ttc]

I know Canada is regulated.

Here I get a 50Mbit, unmetered and completely unregulated, ie: no traffic shaping connection for 30€/month WITH a flat-rate home phone service, taxes included. Also included is access to thousands of movies and television programs on the Internet. On top of that, I also got a free 150€ router for signing up.

Compare that to Canada where home phone and an only 5Mbit Internet connection with 25GB with no movie package or television service runs you around what? $100?

Edit: Oh yes. The networks here were also built on the tax-payers back and after the Telekom privatized, they received countless tax incentives to improve the network. They have to share the lines with smaller competitors.

On top of that, I pay $15/month for a 15Mbit VPN in the USA. There are absolutely no bitcaps because bandwidth is just so cheap.

What is the population density of Germany? Comparatively what is the size? 100km of wire or even towers will serve a far greater population in Germany than it will in Canada, therefore, comparing international rates and such are like comparing apples to oranges.

Not at all. A better comparison is ordering a dinner that the menu tells you costs 20 dollars and being presented
with a bill for that dinner of 25 dollars after you've had the dinner.

They companies can change their rates and services offered with new customers, but when you make a deal, you have to stick with the deal.

So eat at another restaurant, or at home. You have the freedom to choose. However, if there were no such thing as AYCE restaurants, I don't think people would be so emotionally involved, they would just eat where they can or want to. Think of it as having Dim Sum, rather than a buffet.

Really, what's happening here is a landlord is charging more for rent, and the renters kids are the ones complaining.

All the theorists are forgetting that Bell is a company with consumers too. If they outpriced everything as everyone so dramatically extrapolates will happen, then they will lose income too. UBB not only would increase costs for the heavy user, but would also lessen costs for the light user. As that income is folded back into investment, it would improve the quality for everyone involved, so that everyone's demand will be satiated.

 

[Andem]

What is the population density of Germany? Comparatively what is the size? 100km of wire or even towers will serve a far greater population in Germany than it will in Canada, therefore, comparing international rates and such are like comparing apples to oranges.

The population density here is larger yet the price for UNLIMITED Internet service is extremely affordable. Just as Bell's network was funded by the public, so was Deutsche Telekom's. What you've completely ignored is that in Canada, it is only the DENSELY populated areas actually have access to broadband services, so you're completely wrong.

Bandwidth costs almost nothing; building capacity is where the costs comes in and right now, the costs would involve upgrading as Bell isn't interested in serving less densely populated rural areas because it's not profitable.

So eat at another restaurant, or at home. You have the freedom to choose. However, if there were no such thing as AYCE restaurants, I don't think people would be so emotionally involved, they would just eat where they can or want to. Think of it as having Dim Sum, rather than a buffet.

Wrong again. People don't have the option anymore to shop around, because Bell is now using their friends in the CRTC to make their competitors less competitive.

Really, what's happening here is a landlord is charging more for rent, and the renters kids are the ones complaining.

Wrong again. This is not an acceptable analogy because rent is controlled by market prices and inflation. Prices for bandwidth and the technologies used to provide broadband Internet service have been dropping for years. In other countries with more of a free market model, even those using legacy telecom lines, are seeing the price for Internet service become more and more affordable.

All the theorists are forgetting that Bell is a company with consumers too. If they outpriced everything as everyone so dramatically extrapolates will happen, then they will lose income too. UBB not only would increase costs for the heavy user, but would also lessen costs for the light user. As that income is folded back into investment, it would improve the quality for everyone involved, so that everyone's demand will be satiated.

Theorists? I'm certainly not a theorist with a long history and education in Computer Science from a prestigious university. With record profits, Bell Canada Enterprises sure hasn't improved their service and in fact, many customers report a deterioration in many aspects including the throttling of encrypted traffic and downloading large files.

And finally, wrong again on your 'theory' that 'lighter' users would see lower costs. Since when has Bell actually lowered the costs for people using less bandwidth? A friend of mine in Toronto went on vacation for 3 1/2 weeks and guess what? His Internet bill didn't magically decrease.

You sound like someone working for Bell's PR department.