Complaining about humanity
- Thread starter karrie
- Start date
Good posts above, Curiosity, Taloola.
Let's go for tone just for a moment instead of the linear logic.
We often react more to tone and sound than the subject matter.
As Marshall McLuhan said, The Medium is the Message.
We have all been betrayed. And we have let down others in our lives. Now what? Complain ? Sure. But pick up the pieces, hold your head high. And reprogram yourself : go for the positive. People respond.
Have we seen a child cry with finger accusing, "My parents lied to me."
Are we all that child ?
Let's go for tone just for a moment instead of the linear logic.
We often react more to tone and sound than the subject matter.
As Marshall McLuhan said, The Medium is the Message.
We have all been betrayed. And we have let down others in our lives. Now what? Complain ? Sure. But pick up the pieces, hold your head high. And reprogram yourself : go for the positive. People respond.
Have we seen a child cry with finger accusing, "My parents lied to me."
Are we all that child ?
Jim yes we are all that child and life has some tough lessons.
I went through that stage because I was a well nurtured (as best as anyone could do with the material given - ditzy me), and when I was trebuchetted into the world of work at a very early age I went through moods and depressions because bosses were not like parents, and co-workers were not like sisters and brothers but more akin to demanding teachers I had in school.
Trying to please rarely worked because I started to lose my own identity - so I rebelled - which got me exactly nothing. Then I discovered the art of studying others which finally led me to where I am now. There are degrees of give and take and cooperation which ultimately lead to a goal (hopefully a group goal) and reasonable success.
People are all books to read and digest if we have time - especially those who think along new pathways and have interesting lives to share or wonderful thoughts to express.
This does not always bring happiness or nirvana - if we expect it we are on a fool's errand - but what we can take positively is always being in touch with ourselves and what we can gain or compare or learn from others - even on a forum.
Or we can choose to exercise our given rights and argue, deny, and never absorb from the world around us while constantly viewing the dark side. "Wahhhh I am a nice girl please like me...." doesn't always cut it in cyber. Anyone can pretend nice but you are what you write and nobody is going to agree 100% on anything unless they are hoping too. I do enjoy being blown away by someone's thoughts and their style of writing - reaching out to others for their thoughts - the perks still outweigh my challenges.
So I am back to what I love about the internet - is what it has taught me about me. The lessons were bloody, filled with tears, heartache, reorganization of thought and doubt of sincerity, and a whole package of negatives with the exception of a very few who opened the doors to what could be if I sought from their perspectives - the positives - and from that point I will forever be grateful to them and will never forget them. I had to learn perfection is a nice goal but hardly realistic. One cannot base one's life on its attainment.
Some day I hope I will find them again - they were lost to me when a forum abrubtly shut its doors and I wasn't a sophisticated poster who knew to secure a contact address when such things happen. I still hope one day I'll read something which brings back a familiar
sound - if I am lucky.
I went through that stage because I was a well nurtured (as best as anyone could do with the material given - ditzy me), and when I was trebuchetted into the world of work at a very early age I went through moods and depressions because bosses were not like parents, and co-workers were not like sisters and brothers but more akin to demanding teachers I had in school.
Trying to please rarely worked because I started to lose my own identity - so I rebelled - which got me exactly nothing. Then I discovered the art of studying others which finally led me to where I am now. There are degrees of give and take and cooperation which ultimately lead to a goal (hopefully a group goal) and reasonable success.
People are all books to read and digest if we have time - especially those who think along new pathways and have interesting lives to share or wonderful thoughts to express.
This does not always bring happiness or nirvana - if we expect it we are on a fool's errand - but what we can take positively is always being in touch with ourselves and what we can gain or compare or learn from others - even on a forum.
Or we can choose to exercise our given rights and argue, deny, and never absorb from the world around us while constantly viewing the dark side. "Wahhhh I am a nice girl please like me...." doesn't always cut it in cyber. Anyone can pretend nice but you are what you write and nobody is going to agree 100% on anything unless they are hoping too. I do enjoy being blown away by someone's thoughts and their style of writing - reaching out to others for their thoughts - the perks still outweigh my challenges.
So I am back to what I love about the internet - is what it has taught me about me. The lessons were bloody, filled with tears, heartache, reorganization of thought and doubt of sincerity, and a whole package of negatives with the exception of a very few who opened the doors to what could be if I sought from their perspectives - the positives - and from that point I will forever be grateful to them and will never forget them. I had to learn perfection is a nice goal but hardly realistic. One cannot base one's life on its attainment.
Some day I hope I will find them again - they were lost to me when a forum abrubtly shut its doors and I wasn't a sophisticated poster who knew to secure a contact address when such things happen. I still hope one day I'll read something which brings back a familiar
sound - if I am lucky.
It's nice to see you back here, Curiosity.
I'm sorry the other forum shuttered its doors. A bar recently closed here in town where our amistad would meet and debate, and now we all float around like molecules bumping into each other occassionally on a corner. We call ourselves the Diaspora.
Every once in awhile we coagulate at some lesser bar. We haven't found a home yet.
Anyway, your instincts and experience on these subjects are right on the mark.
I'm sorry the other forum shuttered its doors. A bar recently closed here in town where our amistad would meet and debate, and now we all float around like molecules bumping into each other occassionally on a corner. We call ourselves the Diaspora.
Every once in awhile we coagulate at some lesser bar. We haven't found a home yet.
Anyway, your instincts and experience on these subjects are right on the mark.
I think Jim's contribution speaks to the tone of color of some people's perceptions that the world is an unjust violence ridden, calamitous misadventure when it comes to the human dynamic. However there have been "causes" undertaken by various segments of humanity since our ealiest up-right wanderings. But there's never been the facility to bring these messages of discontent and mis-justice to the immediate attention of everyone plugged into modern technology. We visit Burma through our TV and the Internet and watch horror struck as a people are devastated by a natural disaster and the plea goes out for aid and attention.... We watch as "issues" like the Virginia Tech shootings reverberate around cyberspace and media forums all over the world..... We re-visit the devastation of New Orleans and continue to hear that support that was "supposed" to come to help these people was late in arriving...if at all...and that the calamity in many respects continues to grow...... We're given images from Iraq and Afghanistan that are subtly and not-so-subtly massaged to influence perspectives and political opinion while the causal impetus behind this on-going tragedy is down-played and relegated to obscurity......
There are huge media campaigns telling us that the planetary ecosystem is in dire need of our attention and efforts to reduce our impact upon it.....Dire warnings on TV radio and throughout modern media telling us that the Chinese are poisoning our children through toys and goods that fail the "standards" established to protect us and yet "business" continues as "normal" with more money and greater flow of commerce and consumption increasing the complexity and raising the potential for even greater disasters through food-prices artificially inflated but blamed on corn-farmers growing ethanol to permit the love affair with the internal combustion engine to grow and thrive.....
There's a huge number of people preyed-upon by banks and mortgage companies, given sub-prime loans to purchase homes they couldn't afford based on incomes that are disappearing because business wants greater profits and sends work "off-shore" where the wealthy can increase their wealth and power on the backs ofpeople struggling to survive...
What's the common thread?
There are huge media campaigns telling us that the planetary ecosystem is in dire need of our attention and efforts to reduce our impact upon it.....Dire warnings on TV radio and throughout modern media telling us that the Chinese are poisoning our children through toys and goods that fail the "standards" established to protect us and yet "business" continues as "normal" with more money and greater flow of commerce and consumption increasing the complexity and raising the potential for even greater disasters through food-prices artificially inflated but blamed on corn-farmers growing ethanol to permit the love affair with the internal combustion engine to grow and thrive.....
There's a huge number of people preyed-upon by banks and mortgage companies, given sub-prime loans to purchase homes they couldn't afford based on incomes that are disappearing because business wants greater profits and sends work "off-shore" where the wealthy can increase their wealth and power on the backs ofpeople struggling to survive...
What's the common thread?
Curiosity ---- back at ya.
MikeyDB, we do need those who are fueled by outrage at injustice.
Psychologically, I wonder what it does to those who lead such a fight. It's never good. Fighting evil ironically gets you closer to evil perhaps even becoming that evil.
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MikeyDB, we do need those who are fueled by outrage at injustice.
Psychologically, I wonder what it does to those who lead such a fight. It's never good. Fighting evil ironically gets you closer to evil perhaps even becoming that evil.
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Wow, I've absolutely loved all of the responses in here. What a good conversation. I'd like to clarify something though because I realize it might have sounded like I want people to shut up and not talk about anything negative.
My frustration with the issue is not that I want people to shut up and not discuss horrors and atrocities. It's not that I want people to only spout sunshine and rainbows.
But, I wanted to bring forward some awareness that anytime we decide to focus on such phrases as 'humanity sucks', 'people are evil', 'society is shyte', we're solving very little and instead climbing into the pit with what we hate and rolling around in the muck. And sometimes, dragging a few people in with us.
Because humanity as a whole is a malleable entity. Words like paradigm and zeitgeist speak to the transient nature of the focus of humanity as a whole. It's not always the same, it's capable of change. But, to change it, we need to actually change it. Not act it. Not wallow in it. Not become it. We need to speak out and change it.
We need to fight against that tendency to focus only on the bad, and instead focus on despising the actions but searching out the good in the people, searching out change.
Or, at the very least, we need to recognize ourselves as part of the problem if we want to wallow.
My frustration with the issue is not that I want people to shut up and not discuss horrors and atrocities. It's not that I want people to only spout sunshine and rainbows.
But, I wanted to bring forward some awareness that anytime we decide to focus on such phrases as 'humanity sucks', 'people are evil', 'society is shyte', we're solving very little and instead climbing into the pit with what we hate and rolling around in the muck. And sometimes, dragging a few people in with us.
Because humanity as a whole is a malleable entity. Words like paradigm and zeitgeist speak to the transient nature of the focus of humanity as a whole. It's not always the same, it's capable of change. But, to change it, we need to actually change it. Not act it. Not wallow in it. Not become it. We need to speak out and change it.
We need to fight against that tendency to focus only on the bad, and instead focus on despising the actions but searching out the good in the people, searching out change.
Or, at the very least, we need to recognize ourselves as part of the problem if we want to wallow.
Karrie I didn't see you giving orders as to how we should behave - I saw the introduction of a topic
A topic I enjoy taking part in because I have seen both sun and clouds on forums...
It often depends on how I am "seeing" too - not just what a person writes. Sometimes a break away can change my perception of someone's message - not that their message is different - but how I react is.
The internet is what we want to take from it or give to it. Nothing more and nothing less.
I think it is a wonderful thing for us on earth. It continues to morph into some amazing ways and I think we should appreciate and take all the benefits we can from it.
A topic I enjoy taking part in because I have seen both sun and clouds on forums...
It often depends on how I am "seeing" too - not just what a person writes. Sometimes a break away can change my perception of someone's message - not that their message is different - but how I react is.
The internet is what we want to take from it or give to it. Nothing more and nothing less.
I think it is a wonderful thing for us on earth. It continues to morph into some amazing ways and I think we should appreciate and take all the benefits we can from it.
I would try not to wallow. Try not to paint humanity in broad strokes of venom. I'd try to look for the solutions to the issue and seek out the ways that I can affect it from within my sphere of influence.
And if I do wallow some days, well, that's only human isn't it? But, to do so I need to recognize that I'm not helping. That I'm only dragging down people around me, people I come into contact with on this lovely internet. That I'm damaging myself, and fulfilling my view of humanity that day.
Karrie
Do you believe that there was an epiphany among the Y chromosome crowd that enlightened them to the injustice of disallowing women participation in the electoral process? Do you believe that a bolt from heaven struck the altruistic node of some Americans who toyed with the idea that a black-person wasn't truly human but only a few percentage points above that of apes...and reasoned out that perhaps slavery and murder of blacks wasn't a progressive and moraly astute behavior?
Our species has faced challenges from leaving the earths crust and fighting the shackles of gravity to developing a system of travel that's taken for granted....all over the world!
We've decided that there (well at least at one time...) should be special laws rules and provision for how one's nation conducts it's self-defense and recognizes that these difficult times required even more emphasis on the rights and protection of human beings than do those peaceful times when war isn't ravaging whole civilizations! We're now seing these principles thrown away and what was once percieved as morally dubious...now accepted as an expedient necessity....
Cycles perhaps....
Do you believe that there was an epiphany among the Y chromosome crowd that enlightened them to the injustice of disallowing women participation in the electoral process? Do you believe that a bolt from heaven struck the altruistic node of some Americans who toyed with the idea that a black-person wasn't truly human but only a few percentage points above that of apes...and reasoned out that perhaps slavery and murder of blacks wasn't a progressive and moraly astute behavior?
Our species has faced challenges from leaving the earths crust and fighting the shackles of gravity to developing a system of travel that's taken for granted....all over the world!
We've decided that there (well at least at one time...) should be special laws rules and provision for how one's nation conducts it's self-defense and recognizes that these difficult times required even more emphasis on the rights and protection of human beings than do those peaceful times when war isn't ravaging whole civilizations! We're now seing these principles thrown away and what was once percieved as morally dubious...now accepted as an expedient necessity....
Cycles perhaps....
Mikey,
I fail to see what the issues you bring up have to do with what I'm talking about. Are you implying that human rights, women's rights, were achieved by ranting about the suckishness of humanity? Because I was under the impression that they were achieved through action that stated that humanity was above, was better, than such oppressions. I don't recall anyone who's changed the world by declaring humanity devoid of good, not worth saving, or incapable of change. If you know someone whose wallowing made a big change, I'd love to see the example.
But perhaps I'm just misunderstanding the point you are trying to make?
I fail to see what the issues you bring up have to do with what I'm talking about. Are you implying that human rights, women's rights, were achieved by ranting about the suckishness of humanity? Because I was under the impression that they were achieved through action that stated that humanity was above, was better, than such oppressions. I don't recall anyone who's changed the world by declaring humanity devoid of good, not worth saving, or incapable of change. If you know someone whose wallowing made a big change, I'd love to see the example.
But perhaps I'm just misunderstanding the point you are trying to make?
I don't recall anyone who's changed the world by declaring humanity devoid of good, not worth saving, or incapable of change. If you know someone whose wallowing made a big change, I'd love to see the example.
-----------------------------------------------------Karrie--------------------------------------------------
That's a damnastic good point.
The power of the positive. Rare. Interesting as to why it's rare.
-----------------------------------------------------Karrie--------------------------------------------------
That's a damnastic good point.
The power of the positive. Rare. Interesting as to why it's rare.
Gezus when thickness becomes the standard..............
Try to follow along here Karrie....
People...."humanity" recognize that a situation or condition that exists that disenfranchises and alienates some segment of the population...people (humanity) cluster around these issues and bring voice to the condition...and very frequently resolve is attained. It hardly matters where you look across the panorama of human existence, when an awareness of injustice and oppression is hammered into the consciousness of people change can and often does occur. It's only through communicating and discussing, arguing and debating issues and concerns that change is entertained! Rarely is it a product of mass movement....although there have been occaisions when this has happened, but it's far more common to see a few people raise their voices in pursuit of change and re-visiting of some percieved injustice or oppression that motivates people to change!
We could substitute "belief" for logic and common sense...and then we end up with religious intolerance and war based on dogma and doctrine....or we could accept that compromise on some issues is preffered to violence and mayhem. We could substitute the will and might of the political and military to establish the climate of a nation or we could examine the history of humankind and accept that more often than not, surrendering altruism and principle to the machinations of politics and military action....have resulted in far more death and destruction than any long-lasting peace these events have created.
We don't live in the Pollyana "Everything will be OK" world that apathy and complacency inspire. We live in a world where injustice and corruption are strangling the potential of every human being to exercise their humanity! We've surrendered to the "ME FIRST" mentality of the capitalist and greedy....We've learned intolerance before tolerance and blindly consume everything around us until faced with the reality that we are all living on a tiny lifeboat hurtling through space....and our interrelatedness isn't the interrelatedness of some particular philosophy or dogma or "spiritual enlightenment" but the rock and stone of necessity!
I'm sorry if my criticisms arouse your defense mechanisms and your eager to believe that everything will work out just fine..... THEY WON'T!
We've seen what a radical religious faith will do to nations and we've watched as rampant ideologies transformed nations into fighting units..... Before we can begin to understand how these things came about we have to get a grip on why they're part of our worldview.
When we accept that a gal at a Tim Horton's is justly fired for giving a child a nugget of deep fried flour....we surrender our capacity to implement common sense and tolerance into the larger equations that we're faced with every day. When we "accept" that a religion that would have us all believe that we're innately predisposed to sinful behavior...while hiding their priests who've committed crimes...we permit the door to be held open for greater mischief....the "slippery slope" if you prefer. When we don't call for accountability from our governments and our social institutions we're tacitly encouraging the attitude that we're willing to accept far more injustice and intolerance from them....
It's only PEOPLE who can do this Karrie...its only PEOPLE who can internalize the component understandings of any dynamic and its only PEOPLE who can choose to opt for change!
You have it all completely backward my friend! As perhaps the most vocal critic of many social institutions and frameworks here at Canadian Content, my message is in fact the most idealistic and the most hopeful! I put my faith and my belief in the essential goodness of mankind above nearly every "social" construct that's around because I believe that given the information and a perspective on choice and some understanding of the issues that humankind is more than capable of making good decisions and working toward changing for the betterment of every other human being.
Try to follow along here Karrie....
People...."humanity" recognize that a situation or condition that exists that disenfranchises and alienates some segment of the population...people (humanity) cluster around these issues and bring voice to the condition...and very frequently resolve is attained. It hardly matters where you look across the panorama of human existence, when an awareness of injustice and oppression is hammered into the consciousness of people change can and often does occur. It's only through communicating and discussing, arguing and debating issues and concerns that change is entertained! Rarely is it a product of mass movement....although there have been occaisions when this has happened, but it's far more common to see a few people raise their voices in pursuit of change and re-visiting of some percieved injustice or oppression that motivates people to change!
We could substitute "belief" for logic and common sense...and then we end up with religious intolerance and war based on dogma and doctrine....or we could accept that compromise on some issues is preffered to violence and mayhem. We could substitute the will and might of the political and military to establish the climate of a nation or we could examine the history of humankind and accept that more often than not, surrendering altruism and principle to the machinations of politics and military action....have resulted in far more death and destruction than any long-lasting peace these events have created.
We don't live in the Pollyana "Everything will be OK" world that apathy and complacency inspire. We live in a world where injustice and corruption are strangling the potential of every human being to exercise their humanity! We've surrendered to the "ME FIRST" mentality of the capitalist and greedy....We've learned intolerance before tolerance and blindly consume everything around us until faced with the reality that we are all living on a tiny lifeboat hurtling through space....and our interrelatedness isn't the interrelatedness of some particular philosophy or dogma or "spiritual enlightenment" but the rock and stone of necessity!
I'm sorry if my criticisms arouse your defense mechanisms and your eager to believe that everything will work out just fine..... THEY WON'T!
We've seen what a radical religious faith will do to nations and we've watched as rampant ideologies transformed nations into fighting units..... Before we can begin to understand how these things came about we have to get a grip on why they're part of our worldview.
When we accept that a gal at a Tim Horton's is justly fired for giving a child a nugget of deep fried flour....we surrender our capacity to implement common sense and tolerance into the larger equations that we're faced with every day. When we "accept" that a religion that would have us all believe that we're innately predisposed to sinful behavior...while hiding their priests who've committed crimes...we permit the door to be held open for greater mischief....the "slippery slope" if you prefer. When we don't call for accountability from our governments and our social institutions we're tacitly encouraging the attitude that we're willing to accept far more injustice and intolerance from them....
It's only PEOPLE who can do this Karrie...its only PEOPLE who can internalize the component understandings of any dynamic and its only PEOPLE who can choose to opt for change!
You have it all completely backward my friend! As perhaps the most vocal critic of many social institutions and frameworks here at Canadian Content, my message is in fact the most idealistic and the most hopeful! I put my faith and my belief in the essential goodness of mankind above nearly every "social" construct that's around because I believe that given the information and a perspective on choice and some understanding of the issues that humankind is more than capable of making good decisions and working toward changing for the betterment of every other human being.
Yepper; second that nice to see ya, Curio. You been missed.:hippy2: Welcome, like, home, eh.
Gettin back to the tread, now, folks is gettin far to whiney and complainey and pissed offy.
If they all could be like me.........seeing the good side.........loving one's neighbour........
hugging and kissing everyone........ramping up the good karma...........believing in our politicians.........everything they say is true, and we are a bunch of lowly plebes.......yes yes yes.......Oh my. When will the truth shine through??
ukeleft:I never liked Kirk Douglas, and his freakin son even less. Too bad he hit that tooth.
love love love
Where are you Johnny Lemon, when we need ya.:-(
Smile, the boss loves idiots.
:read2
says here we shouldn't bitch and chew. Buy a gun and do some bloodletting. Well now, not a ""bad"" idea. Wonder if anyone's triedit)No thanks. It looks like a well thought out post, but you lost any attention I had for reading it with your choice of opening lines.
I'm sorry if my criticisms arouse your defense mechanisms and your eager to believe that everything will work out just fine..... THEY WON'T!
---------------------------------------------------------------------MikeyDB--------------------------
Medium is the message.
Tone is what we hear, not the subject matter.
If somebody is chastising you, you start to shut down.
So what's an other way to solve what you are angry about ?
I'm not sure.
All I know is that a story is more powerful than an essay.
Comedy is King.
Mute actions with no words catch our attention.
Standing still in a forest makes you invisible, you're just another still standing tree, but move and act, you come alive and visible and noticed by all the eyes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------MikeyDB--------------------------
Medium is the message.
Tone is what we hear, not the subject matter.
If somebody is chastising you, you start to shut down.
So what's an other way to solve what you are angry about ?
I'm not sure.
All I know is that a story is more powerful than an essay.
Comedy is King.
Mute actions with no words catch our attention.
Standing still in a forest makes you invisible, you're just another still standing tree, but move and act, you come alive and visible and noticed by all the eyes.