Common lies in the Lebanon war debates.

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Re: RE: Common lies in the Le

gopher said:
"Hezbollah is the agressor"


Yeah, like they invited Israel to cross the blue line 200 times so that they could kill civilians with impunity.

Shouldn't the government of Lebanon be dealing with those issues? Since when does a populist militia carry out legitimate acts of war?

It's also amusing how this seems to be a war only one side is permitted to fight. Hezboallah, a gang of thugs who instill themselves into a nation, do nothing but commit legitimate acts of war. But any attacks against them are disproprotionate and unjustified.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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For those who blindly believe Zionist lies, do yourselves a favor by looking up the innumerable links posted here which prove that it is Israel that is the aggressor in the conflict. On top of all that it con tinues to defy UN resolutions with impunity:


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107AP_Mideast.html?source=mypi


Wednesday, August 30, 2006 · Last updated 2:59 p.m. PT

Israel rejects Annan demand on blockade

By RAVI NESSMAN
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

U.N Secretary-General Kofi Annan speaks during a joint press conference with Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, not pictured, in Jerusalem, Wednesday, Aug. 30, 2006. Livni and Annan said on Wednesday, they hope a Mideast cease-fire deal will evolve into a full peace agreement between Israel and Lebanon. (AP Photo/Oded Balilty)

JERUSALEM -- Israel on Wednesday rejected demands from visiting U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan that it immediately lift its sea and air blockade of Lebanon and withdraw its forces once 5,000 international troops are deployed.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert indicated Israel would only allow free movement after the full implementation of a U.N.-brokered cease-fire that ended 34 days of fighting between Israel and Lebanon's Hezbollah guerrillas that killed 854 Lebanese and 159 Israelis.

Under the truce, 15,000 Lebanese soldiers and 15,000 international troops are to be deployed in southern Lebanon and to enforce an arms embargo on Hezbollah.

Olmert, Annan and Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni all expressed hope Wednesday that the cease-fire deal would evolve into a full-fledged peace accord, which Israeli leaders have long hoped to reach with Lebanon. But Lebanon's premier rebuffed the idea, saying his country would be the last Arab nation to make peace with the Jewish state.

The vastly different visions of future relations between the two nations reflect their conflicting priorities. Israel wants to prevent future attacks from its northern neighbor, while Lebanon is focused on rebuilding from the recent fighting and trying to maintain peace between its fractious religious groups, some of whom are sworn enemies of Israel.

The cease-fire deal could be "a cornerstone to build a new reality between Israel and Lebanon," Olmert said at a news conference with Annan.

Implementation of the truce "gives us a foundation to move forward and settle the differences between Israel and Lebanon once and for all, to establish a durable peace," Annan said after meeting with Livni.

But Lebanon has hesitated in reaching a separate agreement with Israel as long as Israel's conflicts with the Palestinians and Syria are not resolved.

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Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora quashed hopes of a peace deal any time soon, saying Lebanon "will be the last Arab country that could sign a peace agreement with Israel."

"Let it be clear, we are not seeking any agreement until there is just and comprehensive peace based on the Arab initiative," he said in Beirut.

The Arab initiative calls for an Israeli withdrawal from all territories captured in the 1967 Middle East war and the establishment of a Palestinian state with east Jerusalem as its capital - demands Israel rejects.

A Hezbollah legislator also ruled out talks toward a wider peace deal.

"The Lebanese reject negotiations with the Zionist enemy. They consider these negotiations unnecessary, worthless and have no basis or place," Hussein Haj Hassan told Al-Jazeera television.

The fighting between Israel and Hezbollah began July 12 when Hezbollah guerrillas crossed into Israel and attacked an army patrol, killing three soldiers and capturing two others. Israel has rejected calls for a prisoner swap to secure their freedom.

Both Annan and Olmert demanded the soldiers' unconditional release, but Mohammed Fneish, a Hezbollah minister in the Lebanese Cabinet, said that would not happen.

"There will be no unconditional release. This is not possible," he said. "There should be a (prisoner) exchange through indirect negotiations."

A third Israeli soldier, Cpl. Gilad Shalit, was seized by Hamas militants in late June and is being held in the Gaza Strip. His capture touched off a 2-month-old Israeli military offensive in Gaza.

Annan said he would do everything in his power to win the soldiers' release. He said that during his visit to Lebanon, which ended Tuesday, he discussed their fate. "I did not get the impression that they are not alive. I believe they are alive," he said.

Annan also called on Olmert to end the blockade of Lebanon, which is preventing the country from rebuilding. Lifting the blockade would also strengthen Lebanon's government.

"I do believe the blockade should be lifted," he said at a news conference with Olmert.

Israel has said it would lift the blockade when international forces, along with Lebanese troops, are deployed on Lebanon's border with Syria to prevent the flow of weapons to Hezbollah from its Syrian and Iranian patrons.

Syria has said it would consider the presence of international troops on its border a hostile act, and Lebanon has said it would secure the border itself.

Annan said Lebanese authorities assured him they were serious about enforcing the arms embargo on Hezbollah.

"We need to be flexible, because I don't think there's ever only one way of solving a problem. We shouldn't insist that the only way to do it is by deploying international forces," Annan said.

Asked by reporters whether Israel would lift the blockade, Olmert was evasive, saying only that Israel wanted a full implementation of the cease-fire.

Annan also said he was working to expand the international force in Lebanon "as rapidly as possible" and to quickly double its current number to 5,000.

"We hope that as we do that, the Israeli withdrawal (from Lebanon) will continue and by the time we are at that level, Israel will have fully withdrawn," Annan said.

While Olmert said Israel hoped to leave Lebanon "as soon as possible," he did not embrace Annan's proposal.

"It isn't on one day the 5,000 come in and on one day all the Israelis depart," Israeli government spokeswoman Miri Eisin explained later. "It's something in between, and it's something that has to be ironed out, and it is being ironed out."

In a meeting later with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Annan said Israel also must lift its closure of the Gaza Strip and open crossing points there. He called for an end to the bloodshed that has killed more than 200 Palestinians since the end of June.





How much more proof do you need?
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
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gopher said:
Each and every time we continue to post proofs of Zionist aggression

Like giving up the Sinai? Like pulling out of Lebanon in 2000? Like giving up Gaza? Now there are whispers of Hizboallah and Syria planning on demanding the Golan Heights as part of peace negotiations. I can tell you one thing for sure, the Arabs would NEVER give up land they control, regardless of how they gained control of it. Israel has given up land in exchange for the (false) promise of peace - repeatedly. That alone tells me who the agressor really is.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Re: RE: Common lies in the Lebanon war debates.

Colpy said:
Excuse me, Earth as One, but the reason Israel does not have a peaceful relationship with Lebanon can be summed up in one word: HEZBOLLAH.

You confuse cause and effect.

Hezbollah formed after Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon.

Israel invaded and occupied Lebanon to fight the PLO.

The PLO formed after years of Israeli oppression and injustice toward Palestinians.

Israel oppresses and persecutes Palestinians in order to ethnically cleanse them off their land. Israel has been doing this since 1948.

Before the Zionists and Jewish refugees showed up, Palestine was a relatively peaceful part of the world.

http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17254

Back on topic:

Its a common lie that Israel killed Lebanese civilians in response to Hezbollah's rocket attacks on Israeli civilians. It was the other way around.

Israel had already killed about 50 (revised) Lebanese civilians before Hezbollah began firing rockets at Israel. (July 13) After Israel levelled a Beirut neighborhood, Hezbollah declared open war and began deliberately targetting Israeli citizens. (July 14)

same BBC link as above:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5179434.stm

But if you want more sources confirming the sequence of events:

http://www.brook.edu/views/interviews/indyk/20060713am.htm

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/13/news/web.0713lebanon.php

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5182048.stm

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-07/14/content_4833468.htm

You never answered the question.

How many innocent Lebanese civilians can Israel kill before targeting Israel civilians becomes a reasonable response?

If Hezbollah had not started targeting Israeli civilians, its unlikely Israel would have agreed to a ceasefire. Its possible Hezbollah's tactic saved more lives than it cost.