Christian Intelligence

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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DarkB: How did you arrive at this idea? How do "today's Christians" misrepresent Jesus - as you suggest? I am curious & hope you will further explain. Do you believe Jesus is just one of many with no particular difference? Where did these solar gods come from? Also, please explain what super powers the suns have.
Thanks
It is impossible to explain to someone who believes the devil is behind every attempt to enlighten them on the true origins of the Christ myth. Your belief in the power of evil supersedes your belief in god, because you think the devil has more power than your god.

The Christ myth is a continuation of all the previous Sun God myths from ancient Persia and Egypt. All the titles given to the Christ were exactly the same as those given to all the ancient Sun Gods and to the Roman Caesars, who were responsible for putting the bible together in its original form and who decided which religious writings of the day were to be included and which were to be rejected and destroyed.

The Pagan Christ Pt 1 - YouTube

How can there be intelligence in the present day version of Christianity when most have no idea about the origins of the holy book or their god?
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
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Cliffy: "Your belief in the power of evil supersedes your belief in god, because you think the devil has more power than your god." Not true. I do not believe the devil has more power than God. Discussion on a particular topic (evil in the world) does not necessarily speak to another matter. The equation is not: Evil Exists therefore God is weak. As for, "How can there be intelligence in the present day version of Christianity when most have no idea about the origins of the holy book or their god?"
No one can know God unless God chooses to be known. Present Day practicing spiritualists therefore clearly miss the mark by a mile. And as for what documents were to be included and exculded in the Bible - I suppose you may imagine God had nothing to do with that. Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails. God rules dude.
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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Sincere thanks to all for your participation in this discussion/dialogue/debate. It has been gratifying to have my personal faith strengthened (Proverbs 27:17), to have the Word disseminated (Isaiah 55:10-11) and to have Christ represented (Acts 1:8 NIV).

I am especially grateful to my Christian brothers and sisters who have weighed in on this subject with grace and truth, proving my original thesis by their intelligent conduct and content:

"Anyone who is honestly trying to be a Christian will soon find his intelligence being sharpened: one of the reasons why it needs no special education to be a Christian is that Christianity is an education itself." (C. S. Lewis)
 
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Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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Cliffy: "Your belief in the power of evil supersedes your belief in god, because you think the devil has more power than your god." Not true. I do not believe the devil has more power than God. Discussion on a particular topic (evil in the world) does not necessarily speak to another matter. The equation is not: Evil Exists therefore God is weak. As for, "How can there be intelligence in the present day version of Christianity when most have no idea about the origins of the holy book or their god?"
No one can know God unless God chooses to be known. Present Day practicing spiritualists therefore clearly miss the mark by a mile. And as for what documents were to be included and exculded in the Bible - I suppose you may imagine God had nothing to do with that. Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails. God rules dude.
The Romans ruled and put together the bible. God had nothing to do with it. It was all about rule over the masses. Your blind faith is not a sign of strength. It is blinding you. Blind faith is belief in the intangible. It is not faith at all. Faith is a knowing deep in your heart. It is for you alone and has nothing to do with anybody else. It is your personal connection to your creator. It matters not what others believe or think or do.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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Cliffy: "Your belief in the power of evil supersedes your belief in god, because you think the devil has more power than your god." Not true. I do not believe the devil has more power than God. Discussion on a particular topic (evil in the world) does not necessarily speak to another matter. The equation is not: Evil Exists therefore God is weak. As for, "How can there be intelligence in the present day version of Christianity when most have no idea about the origins of the holy book or their god?"
No one can know God unless God chooses to be known. Present Day practicing spiritualists therefore clearly miss the mark by a mile. And as for what documents were to be included and exculded in the Bible - I suppose you may imagine God had nothing to do with that. Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails. God rules dude.

As far as religions goes anyone can have as much or little faith as they chooses and no one person knows any more or less than anyone else because this stuff is simply not knowable while we are in this realm and anyone who says otherwise is a big bullsh*tter.
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
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The Romans ruled and put together the bible. God had nothing to do with it. It was all about rule over the masses. Your blind faith is not a sign of strength. It is blinding you. Blind faith is belief in the intangible. It is not faith at all. Faith is a knowing deep in your heart. It is for you alone and has nothing to do with anybody else. It is your personal connection to your creator. It matters not what others believe or think or do.
CLiffy: Only by faith in Christ do I have a personal connection with my creator. God had everything to do with putting together the Bible. You call God your creator - how then could it be that he can't handle keeping his Word as he sees fit. He created the universe, but could not keep tabs on his Book? "The knowledge that God is present is blessed, but to feel His presence is nothing less than sheer happiness."

As far as religions goes anyone can have as much or little faith as they chooses and no one person knows any more or less than anyone else because this stuff is simply not knowable while we are in this realm and anyone who says otherwise is a big bullsh*tter.
JLM: I agree with you. Nothing can be proven. SO, if I stomp around and demand that you or anybody else believe there is a God and insist you or anybody else believe in him a certain way - then I am a fool and idiot. I'm just saying he really does exist, dude. And he is cool and he likes us lots. I can't prove it, but He's there...well everywhere - you know the omnipresent thing.

Sincere thanks to all for your participation in this discussion/dialogue/debate. It has been gratifying to have my personal faith strengthened (Proverbs 27:17), to have the Word disseminated (Isaiah 55:10-11) and to have Christ represented (Acts 1:8 NIV).

I am especially grateful to my Christian brothers and sisters who have weighed in on this subject with grace and truth, proving my original thesis by their intelligent conduct and content:

"Anyone who is honestly trying to be a Christian will soon find his intelligence being sharpened: one of the reasons why it needs no special education to be a Christian is that Christianity is an education itself." (C. S. Lewis)
Thanks for posing the question Motar. God's Speed & Blessing to you and all on this thread.
 

Cliffy

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CLiffy: Only by faith in Christ do I have a personal connection with my creator. God had everything to do with putting together the Bible. You call God your creator - how then could it be that he can't handle keeping his Word as he sees fit. He created the universe, but could not keep tabs on his Book? "The knowledge that God is present is blessed, but to feel His presence is nothing less than sheer happiness."
You only have belief that the book is god's. You only have belief that god gives a hoot what you believe. You believe that an entity capable of creating the entire Universe would have time for you and your petty beliefs when you are nothing but an insignificant speck of dust in an infinite sea of specks of dust. Me thinks you think too highly of yourself or you are over compensating for your sense of insignificance. Jesus was a man if he existed at all. Christ was a title bestowed on him for being an enlightened being. In the original Aramaic texts, Jesus saidl, "I am a son of god" and ,"we are children of god." He never said he was the only son of god. That was added by the Romans and propagated by the Holy Roman Catholic Church for purely political reasons.

"Nobody is right if everybody is wrong." - Buffalo Springfield
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
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You only have belief that the book is god's. You only have belief that god gives a hoot what you believe. You believe that an entity capable of creating the entire Universe would have time for you and your petty beliefs when you are nothing but an insignificant speck of dust in an infinite sea of specks of dust. Me thinks you think too highly of yourself or you are over compensating for your sense of insignificance. Jesus was a man if he existed at all. Christ was a title bestowed on him for being an enlightened being. In the original Aramaic texts, Jesus saidl, "I am a son of god" and ,"we are children of god." He never said he was the only son of god. That was added by the Romans and propagated by the Holy Roman Catholic Church for purely political reasons.

"Nobody is right if everybody is wrong." - Buffalo Springfield
Cliffy: What sort of God do you think God is? Don't ya know he loves us "insignificant specks of dust"? See I have joined these forums late in the game and do not know the basics of your (and others) beliefs/faiths. Are you a theist, an atheist, a agnostic, a mystic, a pantheist, spiritualist, Tao?, Buddhist????? Maybe I miss your intent altogether. Perhaps, just a sardonic reprimand?
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Yeah, so Jesus - He is most assuredly GOD.
 

Durry

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May 18, 2010
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Nah, no proof of any kind, scientific or any other kind of proof that a God exists.

It's a good crutch for those who need it, if it helps them, good for them.

But no proof at all. Kinda of a fairy tale actually, but hey, if you like it and believe in it, go for it !!
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
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Nah, no proof of any kind, scientific or any other kind of proof that a God exists.

It's a good crutch for those who need it, if it helps them, good for them.

But no proof at all. Kinda of a fairy tale actually, but hey, if you like it and believe in it, go for it !!
You are right. No one can prove there is or isn't a God. That is how God wants it. Only He will let you know he exists. Can't be explained. But......if you can muster a little bit of humility and then ask God about Himself, you just might be in for quite a surprise. Yeah, I know. That means you have to have a conversation/communication with a God that you don't even believe exists. That would make for a nice ice breaker. "Well, God. I don't even believe you exist so I may as well talk to my refrigerator. But this nutcase on a forum suggested I ask about you. So, now what?"
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Cliffy: What sort of God do you think God is? Don't ya know he loves us "insignificant specks of dust"? See I have joined these forums late in the game and do not know the basics of your (and others) beliefs/faiths. Are you a theist, an atheist, a agnostic, a mystic, a pantheist, spiritualist, Tao?, Buddhist????? Maybe I miss your intent altogether. Perhaps, just a sardonic reprimand?
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Yeah, so Jesus - He is most assuredly GOD.
I jokingly refer to myself as a spiritual anarchist or the high priest of spiritual anarchy: I have a following of one - me.

I have studies most religions, psychology, quantum physics. metaphysics, philosophy, history of religions and much more. I have a knowing that comes from my personal experiences with the divine and I encourage others to set off on their own journey and stop following others. There is no truth to be found in books or at the feet of teachers of religion. Your journey home is a personal one - the road less traveled. It is not the broad highway of religion. That highway is a dead end. Most holy books are sign posts pointing the way, but as Allan Watts put it, "most people stop to suck on the finger for nourishment instead of going off in the direction it is pointing."

If you want to be a true Christian, then follow his example. Do what he did, act like he acted and be as he was. Emulate his life instead of just worshiping things that are beyond your comprehension. Every great teacher made their personal journey, fought their demons and came to their understanding through their personal experiences with the divine. You cannot get that from reading books or listening to charlatans like priests or ministers and certainly not TV evangelists.
 
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cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
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I jokingly refer to myself as a spiritual anarchist or the high priest of spiritual anarchy: I have a following of one - me.

I have studies most religions, psychology, quantum physics. metaphysics, philosophy, history of religions and much more. I have a knowing that comes from my personal experiences with the divine and I encourage others to set off on their own journey and stop following others. There is no truth to be found in books or at the feet of teachers of religion. Your journey home is a personal one - the road less traveled. It is not the broad highway of religion. That highway is a dead end. Most holy books are sign posts pointing the way, but as Allan Watts put it, "most people stop to suck on the finger for nourishment instead of going off in the direction it is pointing."

If you want to be a true Christian, then follow his example. Do what he did, act like he acted and be as he was. Emulate his life instead of just worshiping things that are beyond your comprehension. Every great teacher made their personal journey, fought their demons and came to their understanding through their personal experiences with the divine. You cannot get that from reading books or listening to charlatans like priests or ministers and certainly not TV enangelists.
Well Cliffy, your response will yield more questions. When you say, "I have a knowing that comes from my personal experiences with the divine..." that suggests a belief in deity. And as a spiritual anarchist, you recognize no religion? And you mention, "your journey home is a personal one..." What is your belief on the afterlife? Would it be accurate to say that your personal experiences with the divine occur during meditation or walking in nature or wherever, whenever?
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Nakusp, BC
Well Cliffy, your response will yield more questions. When you say, "I have a knowing that comes from my personal experiences with the divine..." that suggests a belief in deity. And as a spiritual anarchist, you recognize no religion? And you mention, "your journey home is a personal one..." What is your belief on the afterlife? Would it be accurate to say that your personal experiences with the divine occur during meditation or walking in nature or wherever, whenever?
I spent ten years living in the forest and most of the rest living in close proximity. My experiences have permiated most aspects of my life. I have been in prayer meetings, ceremonies, spiritual and religious gatherings. I find truth by being open to it where ever and whenever it presents itself. It is a constantly evolving process.

Religion is for sheeple to fearful to make the journey themselves. They are satisfied to read about someone else's journey or at least someone else's account of that journey. The bible is nothing more than an opinion piece by those who were afraid to leave their comfort zone.

It would take several volumes to relate what I see as the afterlife. I do not know a judgmental, jealous or punishing deity. It does not exist. It is just a tale told to frighten children into behaving, just like the devil.
 

Omicron

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Jul 28, 2010
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In what way(s) does Christianity sharpen intelligence? In what way(s) is Christianity an education itself?

Uhm... lemme think. Towards the parts where it shows how Satan is governer of global corporations? Didn't Jehovahs Witnesses already know that, such that they were amonth the exterminated in the death-camps of Germany?

There you have it before you the presentation of the decision between Good and Evil, where evil means you get used up like hydrocarbon fuel, and Good means you figure out how to make good friends.
 

Durry

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May 18, 2010
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You are right. No one can prove there is or isn't a God. That is how God wants it.
at?"
Nah, absolute nonsense, just how do you know how God wants it??

Have you talked to him, is this what he told you???

If you talk to him again, ask him to give me a call, I have some fundamental questions I would like to ask him?? That is if he exists!!
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
DarkB: How did you arrive at this idea? How do "today's Christians" misrepresent Jesus - as you suggest? I am curious & hope you will further explain. Do you believe Jesus is just one of many with no particular difference? Where did these solar gods come from? Also, please explain what super powers the suns have.
Thanks

The first and fatal misrepresentation of Christ was to flesh him out in meat and bone and blood. Meat bagging a universal spiritual force like it was a sausage. Maybe you can imagine the revulsion by those who knew and taught better. That primal sin of ignorance plunged the old world into steep dark decline from which it seems we won't rise,but we will endure, like we always have in de pas.. Christ is in every corner of the universe sees all knows all is all you and I are born with the spark and obliged to keep it shinning, emulating the sun. The suns super power is the power of life, gods agent and herald in these regions. That's natural science condensed a bit.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
http://pc93.tripod.com/GNOSHIST.htmhttp://

Our Canonical Gospels are a Palimpsest, with one writing so elaborated over another that the first is almost crossed out, and the rest are thoroughly confused. Yet, the whole of them have to be seen through before the matter can be really read. By holding this Palimpsest up to the light, and looking at it long and closely, we can trace the large outline, the water-mark, of the Egyptian mythos, with its virgin-mother, who was Hathor-Meri—the Madonna—its child-Christ of 12 years, and the virile adult of 30 years, who was Horus, the anointed son of that Father in heaven whom he came to reveal. This is the earliest and most fundamental of the nuclei. Next we find a collection of Sayings as the nucleus of the Gospel of Matthew. These sayings were attributed to the Lord, and that Lord is supposed to have been a Judean peasant, as the original author! It is noticeable, though, that the title of the Lord is not once applied to Jesus by Matthew in the earth-life, but after the resurrection he is called the “Lord.” Now, it is well known to scholars that the Gospel according to Luke is based upon, or concocted, with suitable alterations, from an earlier “Gospel of the Lord.” That is, the latest gospel according to the Gnostics, preceded the earliest of those that were made canonical. This was called the “Gospel of the Lord”—the kurios—and it is commonly referred to as the gospel of Marcion, the great Gnostic. But the Lord, as known to the Gnostics, was not a character that could become historical. As Irenæus declares, according to no one gospel of the heretics could the Christ become flesh; consequently the gospel of Marcion, who was the arch-heretic and very Anti-Christ of the second century, in the sight of the incipient Catholic Church, could not have been a gospel of the Christ made historical; and we have now the means of proving that it was not. When once we know that the origins were mythical, that the Christ was mystical, and the teachings in the mysteries were typical, we shall be able to utilise the gospel of Marcion as a connecting link between the Egyptian Mythos, the epistle of the Word of Truth, and the canonical history according to Luke.

“The Lord” had been Horus by name in Egypt, and the Greek kuriou, or kurios, agrees with the Egyptian kheru, for the Word, Voice, or Logos, as in Ma-kheru (earlier, Ma-khuru). This was the Lord continued as the Gnostic manifestor, their Horus, or Christ.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
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In what way(s) does Christianity sharpen intelligence? In what way(s) is Christianity an education itself?

"I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves." (Matthew 10:16 NIV)

"Christ never meant that we were to remain children in intelligence: on the contrary. He told us to be not only ‘as harmless as doves’, but also ‘as wise as serpents’. He wants a child’s heart, but a grown-up’s head. He wants us to be simple, single-minded, affectionate, and teachable, as good children are; but He also wants every bit of intelligence we have to be alert at its job, and in first-class fighting trim." (C. S. Lewis, Mere Christianity)
 

Durry

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Well, presumably, the way things are must be the way god wants them to be, or he'd have made them be some other way. He can do that, ya know, :)
Nah, it's just a fairy tale.

These religious types they will use every excuse possible to support his existence!!

God only only exists in their fairy tale minds.