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eh1eh

Blah Blah Blah
Aug 31, 2006
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If 'atheism" is not a religion....why the need to organize and publicize?

Because I am sick of having to cow tow to someones 'beliefs' The point is many, many people choose to avoid throughing themselves blindly down on their knees to 'worship' a 'god'. If we have a truly free country then why did we not have Sunday shopping for so many years. I'll tell you why. The populous was subjected to the oppressive religious doctrines stated in a book written by men to control men. You can take your 'religious control' and enjoy it on your own time.
I am a freeman and intend to stay that way!
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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If 'atheism" is not a religion....why the need to organize and publicize?

To reduce the amount of people who join up in the other beliefs they think are crap.... to show that there's another option.

What is worst???

An angry Bible thumping Christian?

or

An Angry self-centered atheist?

You can answer that question with another question...... which of the two is more likely to resort to violence to defend what they believe in?

A bible thumping Christian can justify blowing up an abortion clinic, the killing of someone, continued harassing, or the severe beating of someone in the name of their God, thus more inclined to resort to violence...... the worst you have to worry about with an angry self-centered atheist is a bad attitude.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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To reduce the amount of people who join up in the other beliefs they think are crap.... to show that there's another option.



You can answer that question with another question...... which of the two is more likely to resort to violence to defend what they believe in?

A bible thumping Christian can justify blowing up an abortion clinic, the killing of someone, continued harassing, or the severe beating of someone in the name of their God, thus more inclined to resort to violence...... the worst you have to worry about with an angry self-centered atheist is a bad attitude.

Are you seriously saying that atheists wouldn't resort to attacking institutions that they think are a threat to them? That atheists are more mentally stable somehow? LOL. Sorry, but no. Don't kid yourself like that. Organizing is the first step toward atheism becoming no different whatsoever, including spurring on the mentally unstable.

And I'll add too, that the fact is that any organization advertising in an 'us versus them' fashion like you see with some atheist advertising and some Christian advertising, you'll get more and more risk of some lunatic seizing the message and running off on a tangent with it.
 

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
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I am offended also, why did they leave out Rhea and Kronos the mother and father of Zeus? Least we forget the descendants of Gaia, the earth, and Uranus, the sky. The humanity of it all will it never end.

I like the belief that the goddess Athena sprang from the head of Zeus when Hephaestus struck Zeus a blow with an axe! Now, as it turns out, Hephaestus was simply trying to cure Zeus's headache. There's a manly religion! Not wussy like others I won't dare name as feelings are easily hurt!
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Are you seriously saying that atheists wouldn't resort to attacking institutions that they think are a threat to them?

Based on their personal "Religious Beliefs" or l lack there of..... it's unlikely. Whatever anybody does outside of their personal religious beliefs is all up in the air.

That atheists are more mentally stable somehow? LOL. Sorry, but no. Don't kid yourself like that.
Show me examples where atheists are strapping on suicide vests, blowing up abortion clinics or even churches, or gunning down people, or using car bombs to kill and injure or scare/threaten people in the name of their God or lack there of.... or in order to force people to believe what they believe out of fear...... and maybe I might agree with you...... but since I can't recall any notable amount of Atheists going around and committing violent attacks on other people like religious people do..... generally speaking, it is safe to claim they are more mentally stable as a whole.

There will always be one or two wing nuts in a group..... but while religions have a long list and a long history full of wing nuts doing things in the name of their God(s)...... I'm still waiting to see the list of Atheists out there who have done similar acts in the name of their belief.

Organizing is the first step toward atheism becoming no different whatsoever, including spurring on the mentally unstable.
Organizing people of like-minded beliefs is no guarantee of anything of the sort.... otherwise we'd also be worrying about what those girl guides are really selling door to door...... once you toss in some religious deity we're all supposed to worship, or else.... that's where the problems begin..... since they don't have one to justify any actions that goes against current laws and rights, I think you're stretching the hypothetical a little too much at this stage.

Most of those forceful bible thumping religious type feel it's their duty to meddle in your personal life because they have some obligation to save you..... or if they don't force their beliefs on you or don't sway you to their beliefs in some fashion, they fear punishment from their God(s) in the after life, so they're more inclined to use force, violence, threats and other means of oppression to get people to believe what they believe.

Atheists don't worry about eternal punishment or threats of a horrible afterlife, there is no deity that exists that threatens you with punishment if you don't recruit your quota of new followers..... you believe what you believe and that's it...... and if others don't believe what you believe, you may think they're idiots.... but you're not going to go out and kill the person because of it.

And I'll add too, that the fact is that any organization advertising in an 'us versus them' fashion like you see with some atheist advertising and some Christian advertising, you'll get more and more risk of some lunatic seizing the message and running off on a tangent with it.
It's possible, but none of their advertisements to date (that I've come across so far that is) ever noted it as a mere "Us vs. Them" fashion...... they're just presenting questions and asking people to think about things......

"There probably isn't a God" ~ Isn't telling people there is or isn't without a doubt, nor are there any claims that what they think is probable, is in fact true, nor is it any form of demand for people to believe or think the way they think..... unlike many religious advertisements that dictate what's right and what's wrong in the eyes of god and their religion, and then followed by the punishment one should expect if you don't agree or follow what they dictate.

And even if there was an "Us vs. Them" mentality....... tell me who started that little scenario.

The religious who for centuries, dictated how everybody should live their lives, in church, outside of church and even in our personal lives, regardless of what we personally believe...... it was always the Christian, the Muslim or the Jewish way of doing things, because anybody else who thinks differently are evil, followers of the devil, or out to corrupt you and send you into damnation.

But now that groups of people in recent decades have begun to join together and correct this and stand up for their own rights to determine what they should believe in, how their lives should be run, etc...... suddenly they're creating an "Us vs. Them" situation.

I suppose you would have preferred all of these people to just sit down, shut up and continue to allow religions to dictate how to live their lives and the laws in our societies?

The only time I could see Atheists getting to the point of resorting to violence and oppression like religions have done, is if and when the religions start to imply more forceful tactics on Atheists and further attempt to unfairly oppress their lives..... in that situation, they'd have every right to defend themselves and send some of those tactics back at the religious wing nuts who escalated the situation to begin with.

If religions don't resort to violent or oppressive tactics and allow the situation to remain at just words and debate..... there shouldn't be anything to worry about.
 
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karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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The only time I could see Atheists getting to the point of resorting to violence and oppression like religions have done, is if and when the religions start to imply more forceful tactics on Atheists and further attempt to unfairly oppress their lives..... in that situation, they'd have every right to defend themselves and send some of those tactics back at the religious wing nuts who escalated the situation to begin with.

If religions don't resort to violent or oppressive tactics and allow the situation to remain at just words and debate..... there shouldn't be anything to worry about.

And there you have it.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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the fact that you would assume all atheists are just like you, and all religious are another way, just reinforces my point eh.
 

eh1eh

Blah Blah Blah
Aug 31, 2006
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the fact that you would assume all atheists are just like you, and all religious are another way, just reinforces my point eh.

Well I don't and I don't. I can only speak for my own ideals in this matter. It is always problematic to speak in generalities on any topic.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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the fact that you would assume all atheists are just like you, and all religious are another way, just reinforces my point eh.
Yup, people is people. It don't matter where they are coming from, some are violent or prone to it and some are peaceful and mind there own business.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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Are you seriously saying that atheists wouldn't resort to attacking institutions that they think are a threat to them?

Based on their personal "Religious Beliefs" or l lack there of..... it's unlikely.

I'm skicking with Praxis on this one....
.... I can only speak for my own ideals in this matter. It is always problematic to speak in generalities on any topic.

Well, if it's problematic to speak in generalities, don't jump in and agree with them, I guess.

The fact of the matter is, anyone passionate enough about their lack of belief to join an organization devoted to that lack of belief, in order to protect their right to lack that belief, is going to be prone to the same zealousness as someone holding the belief they lack.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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And there you have it.

Not much of an argument on your part considering the Atheists in the above hypothetical would only be defending their own freedoms and rights to believe what they want and live the way they choose.

But I like how you tried to spin it as though it would be the Atheists' fault for the religious oppressing them or threatening their lives to create such a hypothetical where they'd retaliate in a similar fashion as those religious people attacking them...... since in any other situation where someone or some group was attack in an oppressive or violent manner would have the same right in defending themselves.

But hey, if you want to believe both are the exact same, you go right ahead.
 

eh1eh

Blah Blah Blah
Aug 31, 2006
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Under a Lone Palm
Well, if it's problematic to speak in generalities, don't jump in and agree with them, I guess.

The fact of the matter is, anyone passionate enough about their lack of belief to join an organization devoted to that lack of belief, in order to protect their right to lack that belief, is going to be prone to the same zealousness as someone holding the belief they lack.

Good point. I just happen to agree with many of the points Praxis made. None the less I am like most athiests, generaly speaking, and don't belong to any organization. In fact, personally, I feel it is the organization itself that is actually the problem with religious people, not the people themselves. Which I suppose only bolsters your point. Wow.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
Well, if it's problematic to speak in generalities, don't jump in and agree with them, I guess.

The fact of the matter is, anyone passionate enough about their lack of belief to join an organization devoted to that lack of belief, in order to protect their right to lack that belief, is going to be prone to the same zealousness as someone holding the belief they lack.

You continue to avoid the real fact of the matter where if one group wasn't constantly attacked and oppressed or have to face laws dictated by religious dogma everyday of their lives and not allowed to live their own personal lives as they see fit..... that one group of people wouldn't have to join an organization in the first place in order to defend themselves better.

In other words, who created the situation?

Who started flinging their poop first?

One group has spent centuries in meddling in the affairs of every single person's life they could meddle in.... the other group is trying to fight for freedom from such meddling while at the same time, that other group isn't shoving its finger in the faces of the other group doing the oppression.... they're not trying to tell religious people how they should live their lives other then to mind their own damn business.

And that's what it all boils down to..... minding your own damn business and letting other people live their lives as they see fit. If the religions in the world as a whole began to stop meddling in the affairs of people's personal lives and trying to force people to do certain things or live a certain way through fear, threats, violence and segregation..... a lot of the world's problems would be solved...... and people like Atheists wouldn't see the need to form in a group in the first place.

It's like the hostage taker crying foul when they're gunned down by the police after killing several hostages...... oh the police resorted to violence to stop more violence..... yet if the idiot didn't take a bunch of hostages and killed a couple of them in the first place, the police wouldn't have had to come along and gun him down.

One is an action.... the other is a response to said action...... placing all the blame or finger pointing at Atheists for what Religions started makes no sense.

I suppose all the women who fought for women's rights should have never formed up organizations either and should have just shut up and put up with the way life was........ or blacks...... or gays for that matter....... don't forget that much of the oppression and inequality women, blacks and gays all had to go through came mostly from religious beliefs of them all either being inferior or just plain evil..... and it wasn't until they unified, joined various organizations and made their voices louder that they finally began to gain some equality and freedom in their lives from others dictating what they were, what freedoms they should have and how they should live their lives.

So don't blame Atheists for what Religions started..... and don't blame Atheists for trying to get their voices heard.
 

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
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I suppose all the women who fought for women's rights should have never formed up organizations either and should have just shut up and put up with the way life was........ or blacks...... or gays for that matter....... don't forget that much of the oppression and inequality women, blacks and gays all had to go through came mostly from religious beliefs of them all either being inferior or just plain evil..... and it wasn't until they unified, joined various organizations and made their voices louder that they finally began to gain some equality and freedom in their lives from others dictating what they were, what freedoms they should have and how they should live their lives.

So don't blame Atheists for what Religions started..... and don't blame Atheists for trying to get their voices heard.

"Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

" Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

"And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour."

Leviticus 25:44-46 (KJV)