Christ became saviour when he died or when he rose?

[Cliffy]

Sal & Gerry, I think He was Savior even prior to His arrival on earth. His birth came at the appointed time so He would dwell with us upon earth, but I think he is/was always Savior. (So, even before "conception"). Old Testament messianic prophecies - the coming of the Christ (Messiah).
Certainly something to boggle our minds with.

Yes. I would say you are sufficiently boggled.
Jesus, the person, Christ, the enlightened one and messiah are not synonymous. The OT prophesied a warrior messiah. Jesus did not fulfill that prophesy, nor did the prophesy say he would be the only son of god. The messiah was supposed to come baring a sword and drive the Romans from Israel and restore the kingdom. He did neither. From all accounts (outside the bible) he was an enlightened being so he was honoured with the title of Christ, which he wore with humility by being a servant of the people.

 

[cj44]

Yes. I would say you are sufficiently boggled.
Jesus, the person, Christ, the enlightened one and messiah are not synonymous. The OT prophesied a warrior messiah. Jesus did not fulfill that prophesy, nor did the prophesy say he would be the only son of god. The messiah was supposed to come baring a sword and drive the Romans from Israel and restore the kingdom. He did neither. From all accounts (outside the bible) he was an enlightened being so he was honoured with the title of Christ, which he wore with humility by being a servant of the people.

Cliffy, must you at this late hour! You have not only stumbled over the stumbling block, you have tripped, flipped and completed a triple plus half gaynor twist and landed on your behind. I am distracted by an unusal squirrel situation and am unable to tend to your madness at this moment. But, there is always tomorrow Cliffy! Though I do hope Motar is online to deal with you shortly.

To think Cliffy would have Jesus locked and loaded with machine gun and ammo! Perhaps, now I see where you derailed.

 

[lone wolf]

It never ceases to amaze me the people who can't accept someone else's faith is their own comfort and not something to be regulated by a Book which, in itself, is contradictory and incomplete.

 

[Praxius]

In a nutshell, he became the savior of men when he turned to God and said "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

He could have instead said "Father, pop a cap in their @sses, b*tches be crazy!" but he asked God to forgive them (humanity) for killing him... his son.

Thus, humanity wasn't obliterated.

He became the savior shortly before he died.

Or so the story goes.

 

[gopher]

Jesus answered him, 'Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:39-43 NIV)

Jesus did not go to Heaven for three days. Therefore this translation is incorrect.

As for the OP question, I believe Jesus was savior before he died. This because whenever he healed the sick he said "thy sins are forgiven". Thus, by forgiving sin, and presumably conferring redemption, he demonstrated that he was savior.

 

[cj44]

It never ceases to amaze me the people who can't accept someone else's faith is their own comfort and not something to be regulated by a Book which, in itself, is contradictory and incomplete.

Wolfy, i like to think Cliffy & I have an endearing bantor. He knows I am giving him some jazz. Take it easy. Perhaps I need sensitivity training?

Maybe this response would satisfy sensitive ears: My dear Cliffy, I rather disagree. Yet, you are a fine fellow and perhaps when morning comes you will see the light. Now if you will excuse me, there seems to be a number of squirrel running through my rafters.

Now Wolfy, A likely response from Cliffy would be: You've got more than squirrels running around that thick skull of yours.
Actually Cliffy's response would be more colorful and the asterik key would be heavily used.

 

[Walter]

He becomes saviour when you accept Him as that.

 

[Motar]

Jesus did not go to Heaven for three days. Therefore this translation is incorrect.

Nothing wrong with the translation, Gopher. God does not keep time like we do:

"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." (2 Peter 3:8 NIV)

 

[gerryh]

He becomes saviour when you accept Him as that.

No, he would be the Saviour whether you accept him or not. An individuals acceptance has nothing to do with what he is.

 

[Walter]

No, he would be the Saviour whether you accept him or not. An individuals acceptance has nothing to do with what he is.

You're wrong, if you don't accept him He's not your saviour.

 

[Motar]

He becomes saviour when you accept Him as that.

Agree, Walter. Recognizing that a king must have willing subjects to be a king: "The king of Sodom said to Abram, 'Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.” (Genesis 14:21 NIV) In the same way, a savior must have imperiled people to be a savior.

 

[Cliffy]

Wolfy, i like to think Cliffy & I have an endearing bantor. He knows I am giving him some jazz. Take it easy. Perhaps I need sensitivity training?

Maybe this response would satisfy sensitive ears: My dear Cliffy, I rather disagree. Yet, you are a fine fellow and perhaps when morning comes you will see the light. Now if you will excuse me, there seems to be a number of squirrel running through my rafters.

Now Wolfy, A likely response from Cliffy would be: You've got more than squirrels running around that thick skull of yours.
Actually Cliffy's response would be more colorful and the asterik key would be heavily used.

I don't care what you believe or what brings you comfort, but if you are going to make false statements on a public forum, you can expect that someone is going to take you to task. (see no asterisks).

When I was a teen, my best friend's neighbour would always refer to me as his squirrely friend. I hope you didn't harm any of my furry cousins running around in you rafters.

 

[cj44]

I don't care what you believe or what brings you comfort, but if you are going to make false statements on a public forum, you can expect that someone is going to take you to task. (see no asterisks).

When I was a teen, my best friend's neighbour would always refer to me as his squirrely friend. I hope you didn't harm any of my furry cousins running around in you rafters.

Cliffy - I am not sure what false statements you are referring to - just my opinions?

Is your opinion that low of me that you imagine I would harm a squirrel? Now you have gone to far. I often prepare a banquet for Frank (squirrel) and his buddies. I certainly would not hurt him in any way. The matter ended peacefully last night with the help of peanut butter toast.

 

[Cliffy]

Cliffy - I am not sure what false statements you are referring to - just my opinions?

Is your opinion that low of me that you imagine I would harm a squirrel? Now you have gone to far. I often prepare a banquet for Frank (squirrel) and his buddies. I certainly would not hurt him in any way. The matter ended peacefully last night with the help of peanut butter toast.

What kind of pin head would give you a neg rep for that post? And, no, I don't have a low opinion of you. There is only one or two on here that I have a low opinion of (I suspect the one who gave you the neg rep is one of them).

The false statement would be the one where Jesus fulfilled OT prophesy. But then you would have to study the Hebrew messianic movement of the time, which would require looking away from the bible for a bit. History is not on the side of bible literalists.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Christ became saviour when he died or when he rose?

Does any Christian know the answer?

Are those the only two options?

 

[Cliffy]

Are those the only two options?

They are if you are a christian.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

They are if you are a christian.

Damn. I was gonna set up a pool.

 

[cj44]

What kind of pin head would give you a neg rep for that post? And, no, I don't have a low opinion of you. There is only one or two on here that I have a low opinion of (I suspect the one who gave you the neg rep is one of them).

The false statement would be the one where Jesus fulfilled OT prophesy. But then you would have to study the Hebrew messianic movement of the time, which would require looking away from the bible for a bit. History is not on the side of bible literalists.

Cliffy - Duty calls this morning, but I shall return a little later to address your comment. In the meantime, please explain why you think Jesus did not fufill OT prophesy.
I think the negative rating came because I was too rough on you Cliffy old boy! I am sorry - I see I should have minded the squirrels first and commented later. Haste makes stupid stuff spring forth from my mouth.

 

[MHz]

Christ became saviour when he died or when he rose?

Does any Christian know the answer?

Yes.
Yes.

Thank you that will be $50. E-transfers accepted 24/7

Whoospi almost forgot the boss's view on the issue.

1Co:15:32:
If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus,
what advantageth it me,
if the dead rise not?
let us eat and drink;
for to morrow we die.

1Co:15:16-19:
For if the dead rise not,
then is not Christ raised:
And if Christ be not raised,
your faith is vain;
ye are yet in your sins.
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
If in this life only we have hope in Christ,
we are of all men most miserable.

Joh:7:39:
(But this spake he of the Spirit,
which they that believe on him should receive:
for the Holy Ghost was not yet given;
because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Joh:20:22:
And when he had said this,
he breathed on them,
and saith unto them,
Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Damn. I was gonna set up a pool.

Puts lots of cornstarch in it.

 

[gopher]

Nothing wrong with the translation, Gopher. God does not keep time like we do:

"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." (2 Peter 3:8 NIV)

Then why say "this" day:

Greek Lexicon :: G4594 (KJV)