China's protection of human rights differs from West

[MikeyDB]

I don't understand how so many people can continue to shovel this bullshyte!

On one hand Colpy's talking about how oppressed or potentially oppressed the owners of firearms may be in this country.... Many posters have hinted at the fact that the United States...land of "freedom" and "a nation of laws" ranks very highly on the scale of who imprisons the most numbers of its own citizens..... You have no "rights"....you have the "right" to watch as your government screws you over and steals from you and under-cuts your "rights".... and I've still got no answer to what the reaction would be if you dared put up a clothesline in your neighborhood.... If you don't cut your "lawn" the city will do it for you and send you a bill or they'll fine you under a by-law of some sort and collect from you anyway. If your employer decides he doesn't like your haircut...your gone...and there's no court in Canada that would even fool with the idea that the employer doesn't have the right to fry your ass if that's what he feels like. You have the right to sit transfixed by investigations and committees and inquirees....that achieve absolutely nothing! Your government conducts the business of government behind closed doors in meeting to which you aren't only not invited but physically prevented from attending..... Our police from CSIS to the RCMP are complicit in illegal actions that have seen Canadian taxpayers paying penalties to Canadian citizens for being kidnapped off aircraft in America and sent to Syria to be "questioned".... The list of "freedoms" you have are about as long as your arm and while that may in fact be more "freedoms" than anyone in China can claim....to think you're a freely independent person in Canada is the epitome of self-delusion. Call any Canadian government office and just try to get an explanation about why the fees and licensing structures of cable television providers is structured the way it is! Try to have a Member of Parliament explain why despite the fact that the vast majority of Canadians day after day and year after year receive advertising junk mail that is put immediately into the garbage can...that there's some reason why it makes sense to cut down trees to make garbage that is then sent to fill landfil sites all over this country....

Have them explain to you why in an oil producing nation, Canadians are paying the American "rate" for gasoline and petroleum products..... Have them tell you why after abandoning our armed forces for years they need to rent heavy-lift air transport to get our DARE teams where they're needed? The list goes on and on and on...any Canadians think they're "free"???

Apathetic fools.

 

[Scott Free]

I agree.

We are too brainwashed in this country - the USA also.

 

[Scott Free]

Oh RIGHT!
How many animal rights activists do you know that are serving prison terms for speaking their minds/ Or WTO activists, who, in China, would have been shot dead on the street or murdered in prison for their activities. Even communists in the USA during the McCarthy era were very rarely imprisoned, to say nothing of executed, and that was over 50 years ago.

Anyone who speaks to incite violence is going to go to jail. So too is anyone conspiring to carry out terrorism. There is a big effort on right now to expand the definition of terrorism to include all kinds of dissidents.

Tell that to the Falun Gong, of which thousands have been arrested, and twelve leaders have been murdered in prison. Tell that to the leaders of the 750 churches closed down last year, simply because their pastors were not gov't approved.........and, many religions include witnessing for that religion to be a vital part of the faith.......

and 50 decades on:

Yeah... I smell a hypocrite... oh those bad, bad Chinese ain't nothin' compared to the good white folk of the USA!!! Huh?

Well, 2 out of 4 ain't bad.....the concept of war being "legal" or "illegal" is simply ridiculous...........

To a criminal I'm sure.

and this centuries greatest war crimes? I HOPE you mean in the last eight years.......

I do.

you know, the 21st century, because if you mean in the last 100 years, you are living on a different planet. As for the greatest war crimes since 2001, I can't remember a SINGLE "war crime" not created in the fertile imagination of the brain-dead left.

So 1 million dead and two million displaced in an illegal made up war isn't a crime?

Gee, and your defense is that Hitler and Stalin did worse - nice company you keep.

What, they didn't have a jury? in China, they'd have put these kids down like dogs, no bother in trying to give them a fair trial..... And for crimes a LOT less serious than murder. I agree, if you're 13 and a lookout, life is a harsh sentence. If you are 16 and pull the trigger.....see ya. BTW.......you should ask the inmates if they'd rather face a noose......

It seems to me you don't give most of your citizens a fair trial either, just the white ones:

I don't THINK our system is superior....

I noticed.

no civilization in history has made so many people so rich, and so free......because liberty not only frees the individual in his political or religious activities, it frees him to invent, to create, to imagine, to build, to innovate...........

You made a lot of people wealthy only because you had a virgin continent to rape. Today there is no difference in social migration rates of Great Britain and the USA.

Welcome to the real world.

how many Nobel Prize winners in sciences from China? How many from the west?

Your seriously going to compare a third world nation to a 1st world? Pathetic.

The Chinese are gaining power in the world because of their population......and the technology handed them from western hands......or stolen.

Thanks to the system your so in love with.

Your assessment is false anyway. Your resources are depleted which is why they have gotten the upper hand. Originally you had cheap fule from wood, then coal then oil. Now your on a more level playing field - and guess what? Your wiping out!

Like I said, welcome to the real world.

1000 Chinese spies to steal technology....in Canada alone.

That's business. Seriously, after all the BS the west has pulled around the world your going to cry foul! :roll:

Sometinmes, in the USA, and it is usually volunteer, and they ALWAYS get paid. NOT slavery.

Yeah right, try again. I have known a few people from your prison system and thats not what they told me. You don't have to work if you don't mind solitary.

Listen, sonny, I've spent almost 40 years fascinated with politics, history, and the development of western civilization............I actually went to school and got a degree, a major in History, a minor in poly-sci, in which my GPA was 4.1.....and I've never stopped reading in the subject, and I sure as hell don't need insults from ignorant little pissants like yourself that are so ****ing spoiled by their priviledge that they don't even know how damned lucky they are.

And this is how you write?

Do you sell bridges too?

Until you grow up, pull your head out of your arse, and look around, thinking is an impossibility for you. Obviously.

This is the best you have? You don't like my opinion so you have a tantrum? This is how you got a 4.1 GPA? By dodging reality with rhetoric?

Sad Colpy, very sad :-(

 

[Colpy]

Anyone who speaks to incite violence is going to go to jail. So too is anyone conspiring to carry out terrorism. There is a big effort on right now to expand the definition of terrorism to include all kinds of dissidents.

What effort?

There is a bill before Parliament or the US Congress? A move to amend our constitutions?

Inciting violence will land you in jail in any nation on earth.....as it should. Are you living on this planet?

We are trying to compare the USA, Canada and China. Try to focus. My God, man. you are a musician...........I'm willing to bet some of your music would land you in jail for 10 years in China. (if it is at all political)

Now, let me say this.....I think the Patriot Act and our anti-terror legislation are a travesty. They need to be withdrawn. They are a serious infringement on our rights.......but despite the fact we have fallen far in the past 7 years, we are still head, shoulders, torse, and knees above the Chinese when it comes to respect for human rights.

Yeah... I smell a hypocrite... oh those bad, bad Chinese ain't nothin' compared to the good white folk of the USA!!! Huh?

Excuse me? When did I mention race? AND you can compare racial attitudes and liberty in the USA and China when the CHINESE have a Tibetan running in a free and open election for the most powerful position in the country...........with an extremely good chance of winning.

So 1 million dead and two million displaced in an illegal made up war isn't a crime?

Divide by 10, and you'd be closer to the real figure in Iraq. A fiasco, the Iraq thing, it is true. But come back in 20 years, we'll take a look and see whether it was worth it.

Once Chinese premier Chou En-Lai (a history buff) was asked if he thought the French Revolution was a good thing for mankind..........his reply? "It's too early to tell".

It seems to me you don't give most of your citizens a fair trial either, just the white ones:

​

​

This has what to do with the comparison with China? Try being Tibetan, or Muslim in China.

AND yes, they got a fair trial.....

You made a lot of people wealthy only because you had a virgin continent to rape. Today there is no difference in social migration rates of Great Britain and the USA.

Bull****, and what does that mean?

Your seriously going to compare a third world nation to a 1st world? Pathetic.

​

You think China is a third world country?

Pathetic.

Your assessment is false anyway. Your resources are depleted which is why they have gotten the upper hand. Originally you had cheap fule from wood, then coal then oil. Now your on a more level playing field - and guess what? Your wiping out!

They have the upperhand economically because their people are not paid well, and they artifically hold their currency at a very low level..........they pay the same price for oil we do.......

That would be because you don't know what your talking about.

You think you do which is very scary.


Quoting Colpy THINK before you post.

Good advice. I think you should take it.

In closing, let me say this: if you want a polite debate, I can give you that. In you want to roll around in the mud, don't whine at me when you get smeared......

Absolutely typical of what one would expect from someone that approves of the behaviour of violent WTO protesters........throw rocks, then cry "foul" when your head gets tapped with a baton.

Two words explain your attitude:

Spoiled Rotten​

 

[MikeyDB]

Colpy

Why are there WTO protesters?

 

[Curiosity]

Colpy

Thank you - I hope you know you are a refreshing read when I visit this forum. You never fail to bring some hope and positive affirmation I have not chosen badly when I have such
personal gratification and experience from living and now belonging in the U.S. It has been nothing but rewarding for me.

There is no way to explain my fascination at the desperate need of many here and appreciate your ability to see past the bull....Curio

 

[Colpy]

Colpy

Why are there WTO protesters?

A number of reasons.....some legit, some not so legit.

They have every right to protest, to yell, holler, hold up signs, march, make speeches, talk to reporters, make their objections known..........

They have no right to stone police, cross barricades, or engage in an orgy of destruction, mostly aimed at the possessions of innocent people.

Four tried very hard to beat a lone officer to death with iron bars at Quebec City.

The kid killed by police in Milan......a counter culture hero now.....ever see the vid? Three cops in a little car, unable to move in the crush of people, a 2x4 has been smashed completely through the windows,...... in the passenger, out the driver's........the cops inside can hardly move, when this kid runs up with what appears to be a large fire extinguisher held high over his head, VERY obviously intending to smash the cop's brains out with it.......and the cop shoots in self-defense.......

WAH say the lefties.....the GALL of them to shoot at us while we're trying to kill them!

The fact fact remains.........had these happened in China, there would be thousands of protesters shot dead on the spot, thousands more jailed for years, the leaders executed.

Remember Tianamen Square?

Yet idiots like Scott Free, who have been brought up in a society that has forgiven them there narcicism, their ignorance, their disrespect for their own priviledge, they DARE compare the Chinese gov't with that of western nations......and find China superior.....conveniently ignoring that the Chinese Communist Party is responsible for more death than ANY other regime in mankind's bloody history., forgetting Tibet....and this on VE Day.......which he probably doesn't even know.

Get the feeling this **** pisses me off?

 

[Colpy]

Colpy

Thank you - I hope you know you are a refreshing read when I visit this forum. You never fail to bring some hope and positive affirmation I have not chosen badly when I have such
personal gratification and experience from living and now belonging in the U.S. It has been nothing but rewarding for me.

There is no way to explain my fascination at the desperate need of many here and appreciate your ability to see past the bull....Curio

WOW!

Thanks Curio........that means a lot, coming from you.........

I hope my loss of temper immediately above doesn't change your mind......

 

[MikeyDB]

Colpy

You're perfectly happy to have the WTO discussions attended only by corporate lobyists and people who have their "bottom-line" as the focus of attention as opposed to the "bottom-line" of several billion people who will have no choice but to live in the world these people's greed will create?

 

[Colpy]

Colpy

You're perfectly happy to have the WTO discussions attended only by corporate lobyists and people who have their "bottom-line" as the focus of attention as opposed to the "bottom-line" of several billion people who will have no choice but to live in the world these people's greed will create?

It is, after all, the World Trade Organization.....if you aren't involved in trade in a big way......you don't belong inside.........your representatives from the government you elect belong inside, because you are the producer and consumer......and it is perfectly acceptable to protest outside........but who else would you expect them to bring inside?

 

[Curiosity]

Haha Colpy

We are all writing from our particular point of view - Uncle also had her opinions as does Mikey - and China. We are also writing our present 'mood' and some may need to focus on the negative today rather than struggle to understand and see any good in an issue at all.

Whether they feel they are 100% or not - at least we all have that freedom (so far) and I hope it continues. We are reading people from other places and maybe some understanding will occur.

I am always desperate for someone to give the U.S. its props once in a while - knowing there are huge problems for them as there are for many nations - but while I am a beneficiary of all the things promised in their "patriotic messages" I have nothing but
gratitude I am here contributing. I would be a hypocrite to agree with some of the things written here and on other threads. I can only express it this way: I felt I was always waiting for the bus to pick me up and take me on life's journey - but in the U.S. I found I can find my own way and reach my own destination in control.

But you Colpy....

....you don't change - you haven't in the years I have read your posts - always fair and positive - and I especially love it when the topic is firearms - an area I knew nothing about until you started writing on it and its use within domestic society and the laws governing personal ownership.

I see you as a free thinker willing to consider and reconsider - and that is more than many will offer us. We can nod in from year to year and see they are still selling the same papers with the same messages...... all negative. No hope allowed to enter.

 

[MikeyDB]

Colpy

And in whose "interest" do governments operate?

I think I'm beginning to see you more clearly here Uncle Bob....

You like being led around by your appetites so long as you're satisfied that your perception of justice and equality isn't placed in jeopardy.

Essentially...."Hey we're all consumers and will revel in our consumption as dictated by the wealthy and powerful...and that's the morally correct vision that everyone ought to subscribe to...."

Why not have your corporate heroes simply install chips in our brains that give them even more control?

 

[Avro]

But you Colpy....

....you don't change - you haven't in the years I have read your posts - always fair and positive - and I especially love it when the topic is firearms - an area I knew nothing about until you started writing on it and its use within domestic society and the laws governing personal ownership.

I see you as a free thinker willing to consider and reconsider - and that is more than many will offer us. We can nod in from year to year and see they are still selling the same papers with the same messages...... all negative. No hope allowed to enter.

Your first paragraph contradicts your second one.

Colpy is and always has been a right winger, hardly a free thinker.

 

[Scott Free]

What effort?

There is a bill before Parliament or the US Congress? A move to amend our constitutions?

No. It is a push by our prosecutors.

Inciting violence will land you in jail in any nation on earth.....as it should. Are you living on this planet?

But that's wrong if its China right? Political persecution is OK in Canada and the USA but not OK in China?

If someone were actively trying to force communist reforms in Canada or the USA they would land their asses in jail, that is if they weren't just summarily executed, and yes CSIS and the CIA both have that power to safeguard our democracy. Many communists were murdered this way in the USA as well as native leaders and black leaders - even union leaders!

I think you either have a double standard or don't know our system very well.

We are trying to compare the USA, Canada and China. Try to focus. My God, man. you are a musician...........I'm willing to bet some of your music would land you in jail for 10 years in China. (if it is at all political)

I could write any number of songs that land me in jail. I know what subjects I can write about and which ones I can't - just like, I'm sure, any Chinese musician is aware off their limits.

Topics that would land my ass in jail:
Holocaust denial.
Hate against a racial group.
Hate against homosexuals.
etc..

The only reason you don't know this is that you think our limits are reasonable, well, maybe many Chinese also think theirs are? I'm sure many don't either... you know, like here :roll:

Now, let me say this.....I think the Patriot Act and our anti-terror legislation are a travesty. They need to be withdrawn. They are a serious infringement on our rights.......but despite the fact we have fallen far in the past 7 years, we are still head, shoulders, torse, and knees above the Chinese when it comes to respect for human rights.

Really? And you know this how? Because ABC, NBC, FOX, CNN don't show it to you, thats why, they only spin China as the new evil empire.

Excuse me? When did I mention race? AND you can compare racial attitudes and liberty in the USA and China when the CHINESE have a Tibetan running in a free and open election for the most powerful position in the country...........with an extremely good chance of winning.

You said human right abuses of which racial abuse certainly qualifies (unless you think other races aren't human). We abuse our minorities to a ridiculous extent in Canada and the US. Canada is considered one of the top abusers and worst in the world for its treatment of its aboriginal people. Not China and Tibet but Canada and Natives - go figure huh? But that isn't from Canada or the US that's the UN talking.

Divide by 10, and you'd be closer to the real figure in Iraq. A fiasco, the Iraq thing, it is true. But come back in 20 years, we'll take a look and see whether it was worth it.

Worth it to whom!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!

I have a child and no amount of reform in this country would be worth watching her die!?!

What the hell is wrong with you? You would kill your child to reform Canada - sick!

Interesting that your so quick to sacrifice other peoples children...

Once Chinese premier Chou En-Lai (a history buff) was asked if he thought the French Revolution was a good thing for mankind..........his reply? "It's too early to tell".

China has an ancient history and that is a mature and long sighted view.

Compared to China our cultures are barely out of diapers. It is a common trait of youngsters to try and reform everyone around them, maybe nations are no different? Seems like they aren't huh?

This has what to do with the comparison with China? Try being Tibetan, or Muslim in China.

Like being black in the USA or native in Canada - get real, your perspective is very privileged indeed!

AND yes, they got a fair trial.....

Since I'm not a racist I can see by the disparity in conviction rates that that is profoundly untrue!

Bull****, and what does that mean?

How can you call bull and then ask what I mean? That's funny :lol:

You think China is a third world country?

Pathetic.

Definitely it is but it is starting to emerge into the 1st world.

I can't believe you don't know that 8O I think I see the problem we're having.

They have the upperhand economically because their people are not paid well, and they artifically hold their currency at a very low level..........they pay the same price for oil we do.......

That's because they're still a third world country... jeebsus, you sure want to eat your cake and have it too huh?

In closing, let me say this: if you want a polite debate, I can give you that. In you want to roll around in the mud, don't whine at me when you get smeared......

I have been being polite. Review the thread if you want to know who is being rude.

Absolutely typical of what one would expect from someone that approves of the behaviour of violent WTO protesters........throw rocks, then cry "foul" when your head gets tapped with a baton.

So you don't recognize their miss treatment but certainly condone it... unreal.

Violence has its time and place. Like I appreciate the French revolutionaries I also appreciate the efforts of those fighting global control by the elites now.

Two words explain your attitude:

Spoiled Rotten

Why, because I don't agree with you?

Since we're being honest here: I think your ignorant of fact and misinformed, unintentionally racist and your narcissism blinds you.

 

[Curiosity]

Your first paragraph contradicts your second one.

Colpy is and always has been a right winger, hardly a free thinker.

Still giving out hate in one-liner labels eh Avro - talk about a stunted life.

 

[unclepercy]

This is the one thing Colpy said that really struck me right between the eyes:

"A fiasco, the Iraq thing, it is true. But come back in 20 years, we'll take a look and see whether it was worth it."

This is SO true - I always tend to look at how a country treats its women and children. China will forever be on my sh** list. And Iraq, Iran, the ME in general. But, in 20 years, if we look back and see that the war has brought more attention to women's and children's rights in Iraq, then every death will count for something. If gays gain a few steps in their fight, the every death will count for even more.

I would hope in 20 years to see not just awareness, but real improvement. There will probably be many more findings that sift through the sands of time.

Uncle

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Chinas leadership sucks; yesterday they were on the news showing the world that they can mussel monks and nuns who have no guns. The losers looked so powerful, f cking idiots.

 

[china]

Socrates the Greek ,
In one of my early posts I've told you that the name you're using as an users name in your avatar is an insult to a great and wise man .Obviously you are hiding behind the wisdom of that man but still your own brain ain't worth a sh.t.Go fly a kite kid.

 

[Zzarchov]

Zzarchov

If there was a chance that an organ were to come from a Jew or an Israeli....?

I really have no idea what you are saying here as it didn't fit into the conversation in any way shape or form, even grammatically.

 

[Avro]

Still giving out hate in one-liner labels eh Avro - talk about a stunted life.

Tell me, how is what I said got anything to do with hate?