Chavez ... Human Rights Violator ... and Liar

[I think not]

I'm just curious about something Peapod. Do you want a board to debate and exhange views? Or just a boring board to pat yourselves on the back while rolling your eyes and insulting posters that don't comform with the left-leaning views?

I mean I don't get it. Every person has different views, just because they don't agree with you doesn't give you any right to call them sheepel. Calling them as you see them and directed solely towards posters that don't quite see the world the way you do, quite frankly, is hypocritical.

 

[peapod]

He is still here isn't he :roll: so there goes your theory down the tubes eh? And if Jay can post his stupid remarks, well so can I. Get it! got it! Why don't the two of you get a room!
Say what you like, the fact that the two of you defend the actions of the united states government in undermining a government that was elected by a democratic vote, but have nothing to say about shaking and baking people with chemicals, the very chemical that your goverment listed saddam using, well frankly it makes me sick! and I am half french and have red hair, which makes me cranky. But please do continue on with your defense of your governments shameful actions.

 

[I think not]

He is still here isn't he :roll: so there goes your theory down the tubes eh?

My theory has long been proven based on previous actions, but that's not what I said. I said you have NO RIGHT, to call anyone sheepel simply because he/she doesn't agree with your views in addition to violating your own rules at the same time.

If you have double standards around here, I think we at the very least deserve to know about it, instead of "whining" as you call it everytime someone to the right of you gets insulted. At least we know where we stand and we choose to come here or not.

Quite frankly, I can care less what your hair color and background is, how is that relevant to hypocrisy?

 

[Nascar_James]

He is still here isn't he :roll: so there goes your theory down the tubes eh?

My theory has long been proven based on previous actions, but that's not what I said. I said you have NO RIGHT, to call anyone sheepel simply because he/she doesn't agree with your views in addition to violating your own rules at the same time.

If you have double standards around here, I think we at the very least deserve to know about it, instead of "whining" as you call it everytime someone to the right of you gets insulted. At least we know where we stand and we choose to come here or not.

Quite frankly, I can care less what your hair color and background is, how is that relevant to hypocrisy?

Double standards is nothing new to the far left, ITN. It is a way of life with them. You either see things their way, or the highway. Just look at the far left Canadian gov'nt as an example. They have supported using the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to protect miority rights and override the traditional values of the average Canadian by legalizing SSM. Yet they have a double standard in that the charter applies only to the Gay community, not the Polygamous community. Last I checked the Polygamous community is a minority group as is teh gay community. Call it "double standards" or "hypocracy", doesn't matter, it all comes down to the same thing. Those on the far left have two sets of rules. One for them, and one for the rest of us.

 

[no1important]

RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

Liberals far left? your kidding right? They are more centre if not right of centre.

 

[Jay]

I don't see how advocating a national daycare program, being the biggest obstacle to a normal healthcare system, making everyone register their guns, draconian taxes, etc, etc, equals "more centre if not right of centre".

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

You guys should wander back towards the topic. It isn't peapod or this site, it's Chavez and the USA's actions in Venezuela.

The USA's actions are pertinent because they played a major role in the political instability in Venezuela and the economic downturn that followed.

 

[peapod]

Framing Venezuela
By JUSTIN DELACOUR

In analyzing U.S. press coverage of Venezuela, it is instructive to examine how U.S. news reports "frame" the political issues. Operating on the basic assumption that framing is a process of selecting certain fragments of a perceived reality and making them more prominent in a text, one can deduce that news frames are not necessarily neutral in a political or ideological sense. By emphasizing certain fragments of a perceived reality and omitting (or downplaying) others, U.S. media can promote their own political agendas.

http://www.counterpunch.org/delacour06012005.html

Spin the lies all you want, the american governments record on undermining and interfering with the the goverments of other countries is well documented.

A statement released on March 8 and signed by almost 400 Venezuelan journalists accused the US government and media of a campaign to prepare the ground for a US military attack on oil-rich Venezuela.

According to translation of the statement posted at the Venezuela Analysis website, it begins by declaring: “As it was done in the past to Guatemala, the Dominican Republic, Chile, Grenada, and Haiti, the government of the United States today targets the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela with all its media and propaganda power. In those brother nations, such campaigns served as the preamble for an armed invasion by the main global military power.”

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/619/619p17.htm

We see through your american goverment propaganda :?

 

[PoisonPete2]

I speak with quite a few small business people in Venezuela. They worry for the Bolivarian Revolution failure and the return of dictatorship under American support. There is resentment that the rich and powerful of Venezuela, in concert with American interests, destabilized the country through economic means (factory lockouts, oil resource interference, violent protests) and left the poor to suffer.

This economic bludgening has also hit the small businessman, the shopowners, small hoteliers, craftworks, etc. The point where some are making inquiries on moving to Canada. One restaraunt owner, a naturalized Venezuelan who has raised his four sons in his adopted land (makes the absolute best braized chicken I have ever tasted) is very despondent about the probable overthrow of Chavez. This man came from Iran following the overthrow of the Shah. He had no problem with living under the rule from the right, but was jubilant when the new Constitution was adapted and Chavez returned to govern under its Laws. He was very proud of that Constitution and the freedoms it engendered. I partied with him the night of that election, but now that joy is gone. He wants to move his family to Vancouver. I had to tell him of the government sponsored racism against Iranians in Canada.

I have had a few long discussions with a small hotel owner in. He is a retired U.S. Marine, a naturalized Venezuelan through marriage. He has seen the changes sweeping over Latin America as a popular social rising. He sees the U.S. government attempt to impose neo-liberalism in South America through support of corrupt Rightist governments, and 'free trade' of the Americas as economic colonialism. He supported Chavez' view that the CIA was spying on Venezuela. They flooded the airspace with flyovers and on the ground were busy busting small-time pot farmers, growing for the tourist trade in Trinidad. (As an aside he suggested that the original invasion plan for Iraq was supposed to be over 400,000 troops. This was from 2001, but Bush chose to go to war with insufficient troops and poor protection for ground forces. It angers him that once again the U.S. government has gone to war ill-prepared to win the peace.)

On buses I talk to many people. They all speak of similar things such as, for the first time seeing a doctor, of now receiving medicine, of being able to read (adult learning centre), of sending their children to school, and of having pride in and feeling part of their society.

And so many people are upset because they believe America is going to come and crush their freedom. From monitoring the American media, and ever ratcheting up of 'anti-Chavez' rhetoric, I feel they have reason for concern.

 

[pastafarian]

see that pastaman has shown you for sheep you are

Peapod, please don't ever attribute motives to my posts again. Thanks.


What I'm trying to do is to have a discussion with Jay. If either of us posts things that make us look stupid or uninformed, then that's the way we'll look. It's one of the risks of posting on discussion forums.

Now, I know from other forums that there are posters who post just to stir things up, who are immune to reason, etc, etc. Maybe Jay is like that. I don't know, I'm relatively new here.

I do know that most people are pretty resistant to admitting they've lost a debate, so I never expect it, no matter how soundly they've been trounced. What tends to happen, when they have some brains and are interested in learning is that their strident tone tends to moderate over time, and they become capable of compromising to the point where they're debating rather than just arguing.
A few posters have shown that they fall into the "immune to reason" category, so I treat their posts with the (lack of) respect they deserve. As I say, I'm not sure Jay falls into that category.

Jay, I want to continue the discussion. I just wanted to clear up where I'm coming from. If I think your arguments are weak and your assumptions unfounded, I will crush them, mwahahaha, but it's about making the propaganda you accept look foolish, not you.

Of course, anyone whose opinions are contradicted by the facts and has it pointed out to them and still holds that opinion is a fool.

 

[peapod]

Chavez calls them as he see them, about time somebody did. They want his oil and they will kill for it. Never mind that chavez is a democratically elected head of state, who won a national recall referendum approved by international observers. Nah, none of this means anything to the imperialists. Further reading into the bullies attempts at murder, from these de-classifled documents.




http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB4/

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Of course, anyone whose opinions are contradicted by the facts and has it pointed out to them and still holds that opinion is a fool.

indeed. (and that is worthy of quoting under "Quotes and WISDOMS".......... :wink:


seems the bashing of Chevez etc......is just another diversional tactic to take the attention off the REAL PROBLEM......which is the current USR....

Not to worry........seems Chevez can handle the crap that comes out of the US.....now. ( dirty tricks and all.) editorial.: it is really pathetic to see the USR and its devotees stoop as low as they keep doing now. They will take shots......cheap and othewise at anyone/thing to deflect from their own illness/pathology/CRIMINALITY.

seems very important to look at the process as opposed to the details..

 

[PoisonPete2]

The USA "appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Bolivar 1918.

Chavez is trying to remain faithful the the new Constitution by not suppressing his opposition, Thus the print Media and television (privately owned) are rabid in denouncing his government. Radio is more in the hands of the People, and served to rouse his support during the coup.

 

[Jay]

Isn't the new Constitution is Chavez's constitution? I would hope he sticks by it.

http://archives.cnn.com/1999/WORLD/americas/12/16/venezuela.chavez.01/

 

[Jay]

see that pastaman has shown you for sheep you are

Peapod, please don't ever attribute motives to my posts again. Thanks.


What I'm trying to do is to have a discussion with Jay. If either of us posts things that make us look stupid or uninformed, then that's the way we'll look. It's one of the risks of posting on discussion forums.

Now, I know from other forums that there are posters who post just to stir things up, who are immune to reason, etc, etc. Maybe Jay is like that. I don't know, I'm relatively new here.

I do know that most people are pretty resistant to admitting they've lost a debate, so I never expect it, no matter how soundly they've been trounced. What tends to happen, when they have some brains and are interested in learning is that their strident tone tends to moderate over time, and they become capable of compromising to the point where they're debating rather than just arguing.
A few posters have shown that they fall into the "immune to reason" category, so I treat their posts with the (lack of) respect they deserve. As I say, I'm not sure Jay falls into that category.

Jay, I want to continue the discussion. I just wanted to clear up where I'm coming from. If I think your arguments are weak and your assumptions unfounded, I will crush them, mwahahaha, but it's about making the propaganda you accept look foolish, not you.

Of course, anyone whose opinions are contradicted by the facts and has it pointed out to them and still holds that opinion is a fool.

Excellent Pasta. I'm not sure what pea's intentions were there, but I doubt they were good intentions.

Personally I think the debate is won. I think that we reached an agreement already on this.

.....that charges are being brought against opponents of the Chavez regime in order to stifle dissent. I agree that these represent abuses of power.

I’m happy to continue with this…and thanks for clearing up your intentions, it is more unfortunate that you had to, but hey, that’s how it goes.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Personally I think the debate is won.

:?: :?

 

[Jay]

Apperantly Ocean has something to add to it....?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Chavez ... Human Righ

I don't know if Ocean does, Jay, but I do. I don't think the debate has even really begun.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Chavez ... Human Rights Violator ... and Liar

Apperantly Ocean has something to add to it....?

not at the moment, thank you.......but IMHO.......it is presumptuous to ASSUME the debate is "won" or over.

.....seems like an underhanded "tactic".. :roll: ---and not sure anyone is keeping score..


.........the Chevez topic is far from over. He has just started.......so there is bound to be more bashing from those that are so insecure as to be "threatened" by him...( as in psychological threat )

 

[Jay]

No tactics, and even if it was a tactic, I doubt Pasta would fall for such things. I give him far more credit than that.

I made a statment that's all that happened.