Chavez ... Human Rights Violator ... and Liar
- Thread starter Nascar_James
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Re: RE: Chavez ... Human Righ
yep.......as that is the only type of "dialogue" that the US knows.or understands now.. :x
...............and that is very sad. Makes one wonder how they (in their arrogance) can even condemn another leader or nation now....... as their own is no great shakes.....having regressed to a militant mentality of another less civlized era.
an example for the world??? NOT IN YOUR DREAMS. An example of human rights, etc ??? Not a chance. May have been at one time.....but that time zone has passed.
Reverend Blair said:
yep.......as that is the only type of "dialogue" that the US knows.or understands now.. :x
...............and that is very sad. Makes one wonder how they (in their arrogance) can even condemn another leader or nation now....... as their own is no great shakes.....having regressed to a militant mentality of another less civlized era.
an example for the world??? NOT IN YOUR DREAMS. An example of human rights, etc ??? Not a chance. May have been at one time.....but that time zone has passed.
It's funny...I brought up using oil, gas and electricity to fight the USA's illegal softwood tariffs. One of the first responses of the Bush supporters was to say that they could invade us.
Something that Chavez has been showing the world is that the US cannot just invade a country, run a coup, or cheat in an election if the people of that country stand up and say no.
That scares the hell out of the failing empire on our southern border.
Reverend Blair said:
Indeed it does scare them. ergo the Rambo responses.....as if that will impress or even scare anyone . They are losing it and big time. The more leaders and respected people start standing up to the US the more they might have to realize that things have CHANGED. There is a momentum afoot.... and maybe this is why bolton is jerking the UN around even more now.....
It is the most insane that would now follow threats of invasion with invasive /military action. Not only is the empire wannabee....failing.......but it has become a loose and dangerous cannon..... The world is WATCHING this closely. That too might be a tad scary.......but heck ........they are the author of their own misfortune..... in every aspect of all this.
Well, if you're over there and need gas, pick it. No need to make a special trip though.
They are. It's interesting to watch the US yell louder and louder even as the rest of the world pays less and less attention. Bush got his ass kicked in Venezuela, then he went to China and accomplished nothing but managed to look foolish a few times.
I went to find the answer and there is a very good piece in the Spanish Wikipedia. Unfortunatley, the English Wikepedia has a very different perspective, and leaves out a lot of the details from the Spanish version. hmmm.
I will post both links. The Spanish version is a good summary of events. Spanish Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Chavez
Quick translation/summary:
The failed coup was handled very astutely by ex-president Caldera, who at the time was the leader of the Cristian Democrats (COEI) and a member of congress. In a speech before Congress, the day after the coup attempt, he ruthlessly criticized President Carlos Andres Perez, even suggesting that the public uprising was understandible. Eventually, as a result of this speech and some shady politics, Perez was removed from power (May 2 1993). This was a trampoline for Caldera, who was re-elected as president for a second term 1994-1998. Chavez spent two years in Yare prison and was freed when Caldera granted amnesty, as part of a political agreement, in exchange for the support of the left for his precarious government.
The article goes on to mention the irony that Caldera was the one that made Chavez' ascent possible.
This has been a fascinating thread to read.
Actually, everyone in this thread has contributed many pieces to the puzzle. Many sides to the Chavez and Venezuela story there is.
Yoda in time far ago, before humans discovered the worm hole near Pluto, sat near the Angel Falls of Venezuela and much splendor there is he found.
He knew that a people needs a leader, not a committee to get things done, not an oligarchy to get things done, but he knew that at some point the passing of the baton to others to hold the power was necessary much.
He saw the process outsiders must journey through to know what they are watching and much time this requires.
He saw this in the mobius strip of time.
Note:
"You may now all return to your regularly scheduled programming."
This has been a test of the emergency cyber optic cable system. Had this been an actual emergency, you would need to report to your nearest Mother Ship representative."
Good night and Happy Thanksgiving, dear citizens.
Actually, everyone in this thread has contributed many pieces to the puzzle. Many sides to the Chavez and Venezuela story there is.
Yoda in time far ago, before humans discovered the worm hole near Pluto, sat near the Angel Falls of Venezuela and much splendor there is he found.
He knew that a people needs a leader, not a committee to get things done, not an oligarchy to get things done, but he knew that at some point the passing of the baton to others to hold the power was necessary much.
He saw the process outsiders must journey through to know what they are watching and much time this requires.
He saw this in the mobius strip of time.
Note:
"You may now all return to your regularly scheduled programming."
This has been a test of the emergency cyber optic cable system. Had this been an actual emergency, you would need to report to your nearest Mother Ship representative."
Good night and Happy Thanksgiving, dear citizens.
I second that. Thanks Ted.
I like that Boston got a good deal from Chavez.
Much enterprising cat this Chavez is.
But hope in one man should make us all ponder the future.
I like that Boston got a good deal from Chavez.
Much enterprising cat this Chavez is.
But hope in one man should make us all ponder the future.
Re: RE: Chavez ... Human Rights Violator ... and Liar
don't think it is just one man.......as much as the process he has initiated. It is the dynamic that is more important than the individual in most cases.
good info Ted. Thanks.
jimmoyer said:
don't think it is just one man.......as much as the process he has initiated. It is the dynamic that is more important than the individual in most cases.
good info Ted. Thanks.
The movement behind Chavez is all about wanting a better change of course. Now it is with Chavez.
But there are no structural checks and balances in this strong executive position and the power of the vote is the least check there is.
But there are no structural checks and balances in this strong executive position and the power of the vote is the least check there is.
Yoda understands this Chavez as he listens to the Angel Falls in the mobius strip of time.
This said needs be must.
This said needs be must.
But hope in no one is worse. Even if Chavez turns out to be corrupt or brutal, at least for a time he was a symbol of what our leaders might be.
We need to be reminded of that from time to time, especially given the lack of admirable politicians in the world. I think a lot of the cynicism we have in politics is because we always seem to be choosing the least unpalatable leader, rather than the most desirable.
Here's another article I found:
Venezuela is Cuba all over again
Venezuela is Cuba all over again as the Venezuelan revolution is proving to be the same unmitigated disaster. To secure the absolute power necessary for his communist vision, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has dispatched with the most basic rights of mankind to achieve absolute power. The Venezuelan government's ongoing violations of civil, political and human rights are unparalleled by any current South American nation and match the worst violations of Cuba.
In his column “So, how goes the Venezuelan revolution?” (The Journal, May 20), Jack Gilroy cites both the disturbing militarization of Venezuela and strengthening ties between Cuba's communist dictator Fidel Castro and Chavez. Remarkably, Gilroy omits widely documented rights violations as he comes to support the regime of Venezuela's fascist dictator. In Amnesty International's most recent report on Venezuela, the organization notes that President Chavez' administration is increasingly averse to scrutiny by international human rights groups. Amnesty also reports that journalists who criticized the Venezuelan government were reportedly threatened or attacked. Likewise, striking workers who participated in a national work stoppage to protest the Chavez administration were beaten by Venezuela's National Guard.
The Economist magazine regularly reports on property takings directed by Chavez. Under Chavez' agrarian reforms, Venezuela troops forcibly seized a farm from a family who had owned it for more than 100 years. Venezuela's land re-distribution program mimics the nationalization programs prosecuted by Cuba and will likely lead to the same dramatic decreases in agricultural output. Meanwhile, Venezuela's state-owned oil production company has seen production fall. Chavez' response has been to send soldiers to investigate the oil company's managers and to threaten foreign oil companies with contract cancellation and tax hikes. The situation is critical and is worsening as oil provides more than half of the government's funds.
As for the civil freedom represented by an independent judiciary, Chavez expanded the number of Supreme Court judges in order that his appointees represent a majority. Political opponents have been subject to assassination attempts which have gone unprosecuted.
Having recently met Leopoldo Lopez, mayor of Chacao, a metropolitan area within Caracas, I am convinced that the Chavez revolution is a failure. (Mayor Lopez has a master's degree in public policy from Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government.) Not a dupe for Chavez' populist revolution, he has been a constant critic of President Chavez. Mayor Lopez explained to me that he has had three attempts on his life. He and other political opponents have been falsely accused of more than 100 felonies by a single Chavez crony acting as a federal prosecutor. Targeting Lopez's dissention, Chavez has clamped down on Chacao's citizenry by overseeing the withdrawal of all federal funds from Chacao's social programs.
In the recent recall referendum, exit polls showed 58 percent of Venezuelans favored a recall election while only 41 percent wished to retain Chavez as President. Yet, announced results were quizzically reversed with 58 percent favoring Chavez and 41 percent supporting recall. Protesters gathered in a public square to question the accuracy of the results. The non-violent protesters were soon set upon by Chavez supporters who were wearing his trademark beret. Other Chavez loyalists who displayed the government-funded “Bolivian Circle” insignia shouted “we own the country now” and began shooting at the crowd with hollow-point bullets. Eight people were critically injured including an opposition party Congressman and a 61-year old grandmother. The latter is my friend's mother. Tragically, my friend and many other Venezuelans bore witness to the crime as it was broadcast on live television. Spectacularly, no one has been brought to justice for this horrific crime on humanity.
Though already having the Western Hemisphere's largest proven conventional oil reserves, Chavez recently announced plans for developing a nuclear energy source. In citing the need for nuclear energy, Chavez snubbed the nuclear technologies of France, Japan and the United States, as he declared that he would seek Iran's help in developing nuclear technology. His support for the rogue nation of Iran should come as little surprise for Chavez oft cites Castro's vision as that which Latin America must duplicate.
The economic, civil, political and human rights violations by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez are widely noted and, sadly, worsening. The Venezuelan revolution is a disaster. Any other conclusion is delusional. For those not alive for the Cuban revolution, the Venezuelan revolution is Cuba all over again.
Venezuela is Cuba all over again
Venezuela is Cuba all over again as the Venezuelan revolution is proving to be the same unmitigated disaster. To secure the absolute power necessary for his communist vision, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has dispatched with the most basic rights of mankind to achieve absolute power. The Venezuelan government's ongoing violations of civil, political and human rights are unparalleled by any current South American nation and match the worst violations of Cuba.
In his column “So, how goes the Venezuelan revolution?” (The Journal, May 20), Jack Gilroy cites both the disturbing militarization of Venezuela and strengthening ties between Cuba's communist dictator Fidel Castro and Chavez. Remarkably, Gilroy omits widely documented rights violations as he comes to support the regime of Venezuela's fascist dictator. In Amnesty International's most recent report on Venezuela, the organization notes that President Chavez' administration is increasingly averse to scrutiny by international human rights groups. Amnesty also reports that journalists who criticized the Venezuelan government were reportedly threatened or attacked. Likewise, striking workers who participated in a national work stoppage to protest the Chavez administration were beaten by Venezuela's National Guard.
The Economist magazine regularly reports on property takings directed by Chavez. Under Chavez' agrarian reforms, Venezuela troops forcibly seized a farm from a family who had owned it for more than 100 years. Venezuela's land re-distribution program mimics the nationalization programs prosecuted by Cuba and will likely lead to the same dramatic decreases in agricultural output. Meanwhile, Venezuela's state-owned oil production company has seen production fall. Chavez' response has been to send soldiers to investigate the oil company's managers and to threaten foreign oil companies with contract cancellation and tax hikes. The situation is critical and is worsening as oil provides more than half of the government's funds.
As for the civil freedom represented by an independent judiciary, Chavez expanded the number of Supreme Court judges in order that his appointees represent a majority. Political opponents have been subject to assassination attempts which have gone unprosecuted.
Having recently met Leopoldo Lopez, mayor of Chacao, a metropolitan area within Caracas, I am convinced that the Chavez revolution is a failure. (Mayor Lopez has a master's degree in public policy from Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government.) Not a dupe for Chavez' populist revolution, he has been a constant critic of President Chavez. Mayor Lopez explained to me that he has had three attempts on his life. He and other political opponents have been falsely accused of more than 100 felonies by a single Chavez crony acting as a federal prosecutor. Targeting Lopez's dissention, Chavez has clamped down on Chacao's citizenry by overseeing the withdrawal of all federal funds from Chacao's social programs.
In the recent recall referendum, exit polls showed 58 percent of Venezuelans favored a recall election while only 41 percent wished to retain Chavez as President. Yet, announced results were quizzically reversed with 58 percent favoring Chavez and 41 percent supporting recall. Protesters gathered in a public square to question the accuracy of the results. The non-violent protesters were soon set upon by Chavez supporters who were wearing his trademark beret. Other Chavez loyalists who displayed the government-funded “Bolivian Circle” insignia shouted “we own the country now” and began shooting at the crowd with hollow-point bullets. Eight people were critically injured including an opposition party Congressman and a 61-year old grandmother. The latter is my friend's mother. Tragically, my friend and many other Venezuelans bore witness to the crime as it was broadcast on live television. Spectacularly, no one has been brought to justice for this horrific crime on humanity.
Though already having the Western Hemisphere's largest proven conventional oil reserves, Chavez recently announced plans for developing a nuclear energy source. In citing the need for nuclear energy, Chavez snubbed the nuclear technologies of France, Japan and the United States, as he declared that he would seek Iran's help in developing nuclear technology. His support for the rogue nation of Iran should come as little surprise for Chavez oft cites Castro's vision as that which Latin America must duplicate.
The economic, civil, political and human rights violations by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez are widely noted and, sadly, worsening. The Venezuelan revolution is a disaster. Any other conclusion is delusional. For those not alive for the Cuban revolution, the Venezuelan revolution is Cuba all over again.
pastafarian said:
So true - brilliant, actually. But just to add, the most desirable candidates - those with the best credentials - wouldn't be caught dead in the political arena.
Percy
National Endowment for Democracy Funded Venezuelan Coup Perpetrators
Someone should tell the NED that a coup is the opposite of democracy
In a stunning revelation the New York Times reported on April 24, 2002 that the US-government funded nonprofit agency called the National Endowment for Democracy - whose board chairman is former Republican Congressman/Super Lobbyist Vin Weber, had funneled more than $877,000 into Venezuela opposition groups in the weeks and months before the recently aborted coup attempt.
Specifically, the New York Times point to $154,000 given by the endowment to a Venezuelan labor union that led the opposition work stoppages and worked closely with Pedro Carmona Estanga, the businessman who led the coup.
The endowment also gave money to the US Republican and Democratic political parties for work in Venezuela (!) The International Republican Institute, apparently an arm of the US Republican party that has an office in Venezuela, recieved a grant of $339,998 for "political party building." On the day of the coup, this group that received money from the US government to promote democracy, hailed the takeover. The former president of the Institute has close ties to the Bush administration, and is now the assistant secretary of state for democracy, human rights and labor! The Institute itself also embraced the coup.
The NED's senior endowment officer, Chris Sabatini, said it had hurriedly funnelled money to Venezuelan opposition groups in the past year as "Mr Chavez and his supporters restricted press freedoms and sought to suppress growing dissent against his leftist policies." Which is a completely ludicrous statement, given that the Venezuelan media led the campaign against Chavez!
Even the right wing Cato Institute knows about the Orwellian name of the NED - it is a specifically anti-democratic actor that, because of its "unofficial" status can escape the scrutiny that would regularly attach to governmental actions and funding.
Barbara Conry, an analyst at Cato, was quoted in the Times as saying, "You [have] the worst of both worlds...Everybody knew it [NED actions in the 1980s in Chile and Nicaragua] was directly funded by Washington. That didn't fool many people. But it wasn't really accountable."
http://www.venezuelafoia.info/articulosa2.html
Someone should tell the NED that a coup is the opposite of democracy
In a stunning revelation the New York Times reported on April 24, 2002 that the US-government funded nonprofit agency called the National Endowment for Democracy - whose board chairman is former Republican Congressman/Super Lobbyist Vin Weber, had funneled more than $877,000 into Venezuela opposition groups in the weeks and months before the recently aborted coup attempt.
Specifically, the New York Times point to $154,000 given by the endowment to a Venezuelan labor union that led the opposition work stoppages and worked closely with Pedro Carmona Estanga, the businessman who led the coup.
The endowment also gave money to the US Republican and Democratic political parties for work in Venezuela (!) The International Republican Institute, apparently an arm of the US Republican party that has an office in Venezuela, recieved a grant of $339,998 for "political party building." On the day of the coup, this group that received money from the US government to promote democracy, hailed the takeover. The former president of the Institute has close ties to the Bush administration, and is now the assistant secretary of state for democracy, human rights and labor! The Institute itself also embraced the coup.
The NED's senior endowment officer, Chris Sabatini, said it had hurriedly funnelled money to Venezuelan opposition groups in the past year as "Mr Chavez and his supporters restricted press freedoms and sought to suppress growing dissent against his leftist policies." Which is a completely ludicrous statement, given that the Venezuelan media led the campaign against Chavez!
Even the right wing Cato Institute knows about the Orwellian name of the NED - it is a specifically anti-democratic actor that, because of its "unofficial" status can escape the scrutiny that would regularly attach to governmental actions and funding.
Barbara Conry, an analyst at Cato, was quoted in the Times as saying, "You [have] the worst of both worlds...Everybody knew it [NED actions in the 1980s in Chile and Nicaragua] was directly funded by Washington. That didn't fool many people. But it wasn't really accountable."
http://www.venezuelafoia.info/articulosa2.html