Canadians are angry because of “climate change” says Trudeau

The_Foxer

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Well he's almost right. We're sick of his misguided climate change policy and how he's transformed our economy into a dumpster fire. Sooooo... yeah, gonna give him points for that.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Well he's almost right. We're sick of his misguided climate change policy and how he's transformed our economy into a dumpster fire. Sooooo... yeah, gonna give him points for that.
Serious question. I know you'd blame a rainy day on True Dope, but do you really think he controls the economy?

I mean, when you're not hissing "Curssssse the Trudeauses! We hates them forever, precioussss!"
 

The_Foxer

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Serious question. I know you'd blame a rainy day on True Dope, but do you really think he controls the economy?
There can be no doubt that economic policy plays a very significant role in the economy. I don't think anyone disputes that. If you, for example, choose to dump 20 billion in unearned dollars into the economy in the form of benefits checks, that is going to have an impact. Even the banks have pointed to that.

And if you choose to impose a large carbon tax on producers, shippers stores and consumers, that's going to have a major impact on the economy as well. (if it doesn't why the hell are we even doing it).

The gov't also plays a large roll in attracting business to the country by way of taxation and regulation. Or helps drive it away (like, to pick something at random, suggesting there's 'no business case' for one of the hottest commodities in europe right now).

If you mean 'controls' in the sense of they have ABSOLUTE control then no, that would be silly. But they exercise a great deal of control and influence over it.

I mean, when you're not hissing "Curssssse the Trudeauses! We hates them forever, precioussss!"
But we do! We do hates them forever! :) And stop calling me 'precious', you're making it weird.

But i can still be level headed in analyzing the data. Just like i thought harper was great but can analyse his mistakes and where he fell short, or where previous gov'ts were responsible for things that happened during his time.

There was no way to not go into debt over covid, and no way to come out without inflation especially with the war. But it is far far worse than it needed to be and the recovery will be slower and weaker that it should have been by miles.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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OK, you don't understand quotation marks either.

Here's the key question, Skippy. If a President or PM can control the economy, why do we ever have downturns? Surely no President or PM is dumb enough to think that would get her or him re-elected (though Trump and True Dope come close).
 

The_Foxer

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OK, you don't understand quotation marks either.
Sure, my reply was intended to be entirely serious there :) (that was sarcasm btw. Figured i better spell it out :) )
Here's the key question, Skippy. If a President or PM can control the economy, why do we ever have downturns?
Why wouldn't we? That's like saying 'if doctors know about medicine why do we get sick"? The question is more along the lines of are we having more or less and are they as bad or less than they would have been if the gov't had done something different. Your question proposes the idea that control is either absolute or nonexistant. You don't really need me to explain why that's silly right?

Surely no President or PM is dumb enough to think that would get her or him re-elected (though Trump and True Dope come close).
Sure they do. Trudeau is a prime example - he grossly overspent during the pandemic because even tho it would create economic challenges later it was very popular at the time. He had hoped that would lead to a majority in 2021. It did not. BUt if it had - he'd have had time for the economy to get worse and then improve before he had to answer for it again.

Politicians frequently avoid doing the RIGHT thing in favour of doing the popular thing. Also - some are just idiots.
 

The_Foxer

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Not really. The obvious answer is "doctors don't control when we get sick." But you seem to think Presidents and PMs do control the economy
The fact that doctors can't control when we get sick doesn't mean they don't know anything about medicine or can't exercise control over medicine or our health. They absolutely can and do. You literally made my point :) Which is why your premise was flawed.

A doctor may not know when you're going to get into a car crash, but he CAN greatly influence whether you get healthy or die. Doctors can ALSO control your treatments to help prevent or cure problems. So doctors DO have a lot of control even tho it's not absolute. The fact we get sick doesn't mean doctors have no control over our health.

And it is the same with gov'ts. They actually have MORE control than doctors over their respective area. It is beyond silly to suggest that if the control isn't absolute then it's non existent. So 'why do we have economic downturns if they have some control' is a silly question. Why wouldn't we.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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The fact that doctors can't control when we get sick doesn't mean they don't know anything about medicine or can't exercise control over medicine or our health. They absolutely can and do. You literally made my point :) Which is why your premise was flawed.

A doctor may not know when you're going to get into a car crash, but he CAN greatly influence whether you get healthy or die. Doctors can ALSO control your treatments to help prevent or cure problems. So doctors DO have a lot of control even tho it's not absolute. The fact we get sick doesn't mean doctors have no control over our health.

And it is the same with gov'ts. They actually have MORE control than doctors over their respective area. It is beyond silly to suggest that if the control isn't absolute then it's non existent. So 'why do we have economic downturns if they have some control' is a silly question. Why wouldn't we.
I didn't say it did.

Y'know, when you dream up a statement, ascribe it to me, then argue against it, you're really just talking to yourself.
 

Ron in Regina

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OK, you don't understand quotation marks either.

Here's the key question, Skippy. If a President or PM can control the economy, why do we ever have downturns? Surely no President or PM is dumb enough to think that would get her or him re-elected (though Trump and True Dope come close).
Government can influence the economy both positively & negatively. They do not outright “control” the economy but they can nudge it in a direction to influence it to everyone’s benefit, or they can nudge it in other directions that (like an accident that you can see happening but are unable to stop) doesn’t bode well for future well-being. Is that a statement that both can agree upon??
 
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The_Foxer

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Government can influence the economy both positively & negatively. They do not outright “control” the economy but they can nudge it in a direction to influence it to everyone’s benefit, or they can nudge it in other directions that (like an accident that you can see happening but are unable to stop) doesn’t bode well for future well-being. Is that a statement that both can agree upon??
Well i'd say the do a lot more than 'nudge' but it's not far off my position so sure. Of course - gov'ts CAN 'control' the economy to whatever degree they want, and many do, we just don't do that here as completely. So the amount of control (or influence if you prefer) is a decision and does vary over time.

Trudeau is on the high end. Seriously - repressing the energy industry, the carbon tax, the spending, the regulation - it's hard to catagorize that as mere 'influence'. That's a pretty major direct affect on the economy, that is exerting a fair bit of control some would argue ,
 
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Serryah

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Government can influence the economy both positively & negatively. They do not outright “control” the economy but they can nudge it in a direction to influence it to everyone’s benefit, or they can nudge it in other directions that (like an accident that you can see happening but are unable to stop) doesn’t bode well for future well-being. Is that a statement that both can agree upon??

My take on it is... Trudeau - and every other world leader, honestly - was fucked from the get go in this pandemic.

If they DIDN'T send out incentives, money, etc, people would have been seriously screwed for their finances.

But because they did fork out cash - cash that I think not just Canada but, again, most countries didn't really have - now we're in the mess we're in.

Did Trudeau make it worse? Eh...

NB has a 'surplus' of 100 million (IIRC), and you know why, because our fucking idiot Premier didn't take what was offered and give it to the people who needed it most. Instead he denied/stuffed it away to claim the surplus.

And now our health care and education is suffering even more because of it.

Nurses and other health professionals were supposed to get 'bonuses' for working the Pandemic. We got SFA.

Because he said no.

And now he's crowing about 'surplus'. And ironically wants the people of NB to "give opinions about where it should go".

...

Back to Trudeau; yeah, he could have done lots more and handled it a lot better.

But we could also be worse off too; he could have done SFA for anyone.
 
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petros

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You forgot to replace yourself and now there is no one to take care of you even though there is money.

The people you needed to take care of you were aborted 25 years ago.
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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Government can influence the economy both positively & negatively. They do not outright “control” the economy but they can nudge it in a direction to influence it to everyone’s benefit, or they can nudge it in other directions that (like an accident that you can see happening but are unable to stop) doesn’t bode well for future well-being. Is that a statement that both can agree upon??
Correct. "Influence." A couple of percent either way. And should do whatever it can. And True Dope isn't doing very well, probably through ignorance of the levers and tools he does have and indifference to the economy in his priority list.

But I get sick of whimpering morons who blame ONE prime minister of ONE small country (no intent to insult y'all or put you down, but <40 million population is "small") for a global surge in gas prices.
 

Serryah

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Correct. "Influence." A couple of percent either way. And should do whatever it can. And True Dope isn't doing very well, probably through ignorance of the levers and tools he does have and indifference to the economy in his priority list.

But I get sick of whimpering morons who blame ONE prime minister of ONE small country (no intent to insult y'all or put you down, but <40 million population is "small") for a global surge in gas prices.

But, but... it's Trudope! And Biden! It's all their fault gas is so high and the prices of food are so high! If it wasn't for them, things would be FINE!
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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Regina, Saskatchewan
There can be no doubt that economic policy plays a very significant role in the economy. I don't think anyone disputes that. If you, for example, choose to dump 20 billion in unearned dollars into the economy in the form of benefits checks, that is going to have an impact. Even the banks have pointed to that.

And if you choose to impose a large carbon tax on producers, shippers stores and consumers, that's going to have a major impact on the economy as well. (if it doesn't why the hell are we even doing it).

The gov't also plays a large roll in attracting business to the country by way of taxation and regulation. Or helps drive it away (like, to pick something at random, suggesting there's 'no business case' for one of the hottest commodities in europe right now).

If you mean 'controls' in the sense of they have ABSOLUTE control then no, that would be silly. But they exercise a great deal of control and influence over it.
Last week’s visit to Canada by German Chancellor Olaf Scholz did little to help ease his country’s energy crisis. Germany desperately needs Liquified Natural Gas (LNG) now, not hydrogen that won’t be available in smallish quantities until years from now.

The visit also opened more wounds with Alberta, as the prime minister scoffed there is no “business case” for LNG exports to Germany — a comment that surprised many participants at the Canadian Energy Executive Association Forum held in Banff last Thursday.

If anyone can judge whether LNG will be profitable or not, it’s an oil and gas industry willing to invest billions of dollars in it. The real reason Canada still does not have LNG exports today is not the “business case” but the “political case”: federal regulations focused on GHG emissions to the exclusion of Canada’s interest in contributing to the world’s energy and security needs.


LNG is a big business that can generate billions of dollars of GDP for a country. Each ton of exported LNG is worth, according to this week’s spot prices, US$830 when sold to Japan and US$1,800 when sold to the European Union. For Australia, LNG exports add up to over AU$50 billion, almost 2.5 per cent of the country’s GDP.

So, what have we achieved in Canada? A big fat zero. We do have one plant being built by LNG Canada in Kitimat, B.C. with capacity to export 14 million tons a year starting in 2025. But that’s a far cry from the many LNG proposals that have fallen by the wayside in the past 15 years. Natural Resources Canada reports that 13 west coast and five east coast proposals have been made over the years totalling 216 million tons.

Not all proposals would have gone ahead but some certainly would have if not for the federal and Quebec governments discouragement of resource development.

The main argument against further oil and gas development is that it would increase Canada’s GHG emissions. Maybe so. But would it increase global emissions?
 

The_Foxer

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Back to Trudeau; yeah, he could have done lots more and handled it a lot better.

But we could also be worse off too; he could have done SFA for anyone.
Well the fact that someone can do 'worse' isn't really a measure of how they did :) Very few people in history have ever done the 'worst' possible' :)

But there's little doubt you're correct that something had to be done and we were going to take a hit, which i believe i mentioned earlier. But - it's not JUST the pandemic - he went 100 billion into debt BEFORE the pandemic, during our 'Good times" that harper set him up for. It was supposed to be 10 billion over budget for three years total - remember that? But he wound up going 100 billion in the 5 years before the pandemic hit - and we dragged that inflated spending into the pandemic with us, making things worse before the first CERB check ever went out.

ANd his response after has been pretty horrible too, again adding to the problem.

I'm inclined to give him some slack for the problems with his policy for the first year of the pandemic. It would be unfair to blame him for not having a plan to deal with something nobody could really plan for.

But when he gives 70 million to a chinese company just because it's partly owned by a buddy in montreal INSTEAD of giving 20 million to a western based well respected pharma company who helped develop mNRA tech to begin with and says they can be up and running a few months after moderna? (we never got a drop of that chinese product either - they used our cash to develop it and sold it to others).

And the insane amounts given to perfectly healthy businesses to 'retain employees' that just went to profits?

And weaponizing mandates to win an election while turning the country against itself? That literally broke up families.

And now - his impact on the economy is horrible. And will be generational.
 
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