Canadian soldier killed in accidental shooting in Afghanistan

[MikeyDB]

Eaglesmack

If you're right and a Canadian was responsible for an AD that took the life of a comrade, that's a lack of training and a reflection of the enthusiasm Canadians have for appearing on the world stage beside their American counterparts who spend far more on training and equipment than any beer swilling Canadian arsehole would dream as appropriate...

If it was simply carelessness and dereliction of duty ...I would expect there to be consequences for that behavior...

After NOT being given the order to engage the "hostiles" on the ground an American pilot killed Canadians anyway....

what happened to that airman?

 

[MikeyDB]

Eaglesmack

I agree wholeheartedly...when Canada forgoes international law the weight of the international court should be brought to bear...

While Americans don't believe that International law should be recognized those nations that do should be held to a higher standard...no argument at all...

If Americans don't feel that international law has any place in foreign affairs and decides that unilateral action is accpetable...why should anyone get upset when the U.S. suffers something like 9/11?

 

[snfu73]

Funny, I've had firearms around me my whole life. I don't even know anyone personally who has had a mishap, although there have been plenty of p[[prtunities for mishap.
Toys? They are tools. There's a difference. As with any tool, people can abuse them or use them.
Friendly fire in friendly surroundings (I am guessing that the airfield is secure)? I really think "friendly fire" is actually negligent homicide.

I dunno...mostly when I hear military guys talk about guns...they are toys... Military weapons are pretty sick tools if you ask me....they are designed to kill people. And, as long as large masses of people insist on carrying them and engaging in war for whatever reason, people are going to accidentally be killed. What can I say? Like I said before...it's a numbers game...eventually the numbers are going to catch up with you. Of the thousands upon thousands of bullets being fired daily in Afghanistan, the odds are good that one of them are going to end up in another human being, and it might not be the human being the bullet was intended for.

 

[EagleSmack]

Eaglesmack

If you're right and a Canadian was responsible for an AD that took the life of a comrade, that's a lack of training and a reflection of the enthusiasm Canadians have for appearing on the world stage beside their American counterparts who spend far more on training and equipment than any beer swilling Canadian arsehole would dream as appropriate...

If it was simply carelessness and dereliction of duty ...I would expect there to be consequences for that behavior...

After NOT being given the order to engage the "hostiles" on the ground an American pilot killed Canadians anyway....

what happened to that airman?

I don't think it was a lack of training. Again we a speculating because we don't know the specifics. I think it was carelessness. I was a Marine and I have seen accidental discharges of fire arms. However even though it was an accident it equates to negligence.

I don't know the details of that case. I've actually been trying to see what happened because I think they were convicted and sent to prison. I THINK. I will check further.

 

[EagleSmack]

Eaglesmack

I agree wholeheartedly...when Canada forgoes international law the weight of the international court should be brought to bear...

While Americans don't believe that International law should be recognized those nations that do should be held to a higher standard...no argument at all...

If Americans don't feel that international law has any place in foreign affairs and decides that unilateral action is accpetable...why should anyone get upset when the U.S. suffers something like 9/11?

Because a lot of times International Law is directed to the shake down of the US. Countries in the UN say this should happen and that should happen but ignore when it affects them. Do you think the US is the only country that ignores International Law?

The US will not be dictated to by other countries and that is that. Nor will Canada or any other country. It is only when the US is ACCUSED of violating International Law that everyone jumps up and down about. People go on about this war being illegal according to International Law but not a word was said about Yugoslavia.

It was a Civil War and Canada had no right whatsoever in being there. Nobody did... but we all winked at each other and went in anyways. Why was that OK? The UN did not approve.

I don't think many people outside the US got upset after 9/11. Outwardly they showed remorse and shock but I believe inside most other nations thought we deserved it. They all put their hands up and said

"Hey don't look at us! We had nothing to do with it."

That was out of fear and fear only. Someone was going to get it.

 

[Avro]

Yugoslavia was a NATO lead mission which btw is far more legitimate than the rag tag coalition of the willing.

Civil war within the confines of Europe and genocide to boot was justification enough to aide our NATO allies from a conflict that could have spilled across boarders.

Iraq had no WMD's, no moblie weapons factories, no unmanned drones, no nuke program, no links to Al Queada, no links to 9/11, no threat to the U.S., was not in a state of civil war, was not a haven nor a training ground for terrorists.....etc etc.

The differences are staggering and to bad for you no sign of hypocrisy.

It's arguments like yours that show how desperate the Iraq war crowd has gotten.

 

[snfu73]

I think Canada has shown that it will deal with unacceptable incidents and behaviour quite well. If we look at the response following the horrible scandal involving Canadian troops in Somalia...where a whole...what...section, platoon, division, I don't know what it is called...was disbanded we see that the situation was taken VERY seriously. Nothing was swept under the rug. Nothing was covered up...wait...I hope I'm right on this....anyone have more information?

 

[Logic 7]

You play with guns...it's gonna happen. Everyone gets so SHOCKED when these accidents happen. Surprise! Guess what...all these guns around...all these war toys...all this crap...sooner or later, something is going to happen. Not that I don't feel for the guy or his family....BUT...realistically, come ON...it's a war zone, everyone has a gun, something is going to happen to someone...and USUALLY, unfortunatly, it ends up happening to an innocent Afghan civilian....sooooo....

Exactly those who live by the swords will die by the swords, there is nothing to understand in this, it is just a reality.
And when it happens to afganies being shot for no reason, nobody cares.

 

[EagleSmack]

Yugoslavia was a NATO lead mission which btw is far more legitimate than the rag tag coalition of the willing.

Civil war within the confines of Europe and genocide to boot was justification enough to aide our NATO allies from a conflict that could have spilled across boarders.

Iraq had no WMD's, no moblie weapons factories, no unmanned drones, no nuke program, no links to Al Queada, no links to 9/11, no threat to the U.S., was not in a state of civil war, was not a haven nor a training ground for terrorists.....etc etc.

The differences are staggering and to bad for you no sign of hypocrisy.

It's arguments like yours that show how desperate the Iraq war crowd has gotten.

Nevertheless it was illegal according to International Law. It was not approved by the UN. Face it... it was illegal and Canada participated. What makes NATO the deciding factor on what international law is?

Canada thought it was a good cause to go and she broke International Law to do it regardless of the reasons. It was a Civil War between Yugoslavians that posed no threat whatsoever to Canada. None. The case that it would spill over into other countries is foolish and hollow. It is just an excuse because it was hurting the European economy. Money and the Market was the real reason. There are many differences between the two wars but that does not make your involvment in Yugoslavia LESS ILLEGAL.

No WMD's? Ask the Kurds about that.

Just to be clear about my views on the war... I want it over. I was not very keen on the idea of going in the first place. But now that we are there we need to stick it out.

 

[EagleSmack]

I think Canada has shown that it will deal with unacceptable incidents and behaviour quite well. If we look at the response following the horrible scandal involving Canadian troops in Somalia...where a whole...what...section, platoon, division, I don't know what it is called...was disbanded we see that the situation was taken VERY seriously. Nothing was swept under the rug. Nothing was covered up...wait...I hope I'm right on this....anyone have more information?

We are going to find out. However it has been a few days and they have not even said who shot the soldier. When the USAF bombed those soldiers it was all over the news who did it.

I wonder why Canada is silent on this?

 

[DurkaDurka]

We are going to find out. However it has been a few days and they have not even said who shot the soldier. When the USAF bombed those soldiers it was all over the news who did it.

I wonder why Canada is silent on this?

I think it's probably easier to trace where an airbourne missle came from compared to a stray bullet?

 

[Colpy]

I think Canada has shown that it will deal with unacceptable incidents and behaviour quite well. If we look at the response following the horrible scandal involving Canadian troops in Somalia...where a whole...what...section, platoon, division, I don't know what it is called...was disbanded we see that the situation was taken VERY seriously. Nothing was swept under the rug. Nothing was covered up...wait...I hope I'm right on this....anyone have more information?

Let's see:

The Airborne Regiment disbanded in disgrace, despite the fact a new commander had imposed tough discipline and cleaned up the obvious problems.

A lowly private the only one sentenced to prison time, while commanding officers blame everyone else below them for the Regiment's problems, in direct opposition to the honourable military tradition that the commander takes the fall for any flaw in his command.

The Somalia Inquiry shut down and shut up in mid-stride.

Private Brown, although he admits to striking the youth, was the ONLY trooper (of several who knew Matchee was torturing the lad) who went to an officer and tried to get them to stop Corporal Matchee from killing the boy. Private Brown went to prison for manslaughter. Can you say "scapegoat"? (Matchee tried to kill himself by hanging, and is a vegetable)

During the inquiry, troops in the former Yugoslavia are in combat with the Croats in the Medak Pocket, a fact which the government tries to cover up because they don't want it known (in the light of Somalia) that Canadian soldiers are killing people. The troops are not recognized for their efforts.

Personally, I think Canada has FAILED MISERABLY to show "that it will deal with unacceptable incidents and behaviour quite well"

 

[snfu73]

Let's see:

The Airborne Regiment disbanded in disgrace, despite the fact a new commander had imposed tough discipline and cleaned up the obvious problems.

A lowly private the only one sentenced to prison time, while commanding officers blame everyone else below them for the Regiment's problems, in direct opposition to the honourable military tradition that the commander takes the fall for any flaw in his command.

The Somalia Inquiry shut down and shut up in mid-stride.

Private Brown, although he admits to striking the youth, was the ONLY trooper (of several who knew Matchee was torturing the lad) who went to an officer and tried to get them to stop Corporal Matchee from killing the boy. Private Brown went to prison for manslaughter. Can you say "scapegoat"? (Matchee tried to kill himself by hanging, and is a vegetable)

During the inquiry, troops in the former Yugoslavia are in combat with the Croats in the Medak Pocket, a fact which the government tries to cover up because they don't want it known (in the light of Somalia) that Canadian soldiers are killing people. The troops are not recognized for their efforts.

Personally, I think Canada has FAILED MISERABLY to show "that it will deal with unacceptable incidents and behaviour quite well"

Oh.

Well...that shut me up.

Good job. Okay, well, I was very wrong then, based on this new evidence. Ah well. I learnt.

 

[Curiosity]

Thank you Colby for stepping up to the plate on this issue.... a good memory of Canada shone through for me reading your account. Added to your rep.

 

[EagleSmack]

I think it's probably easier to trace where an airbourne missle came from compared to a stray bullet?

Again this is speculation but it happened in his tent. If I had to make a guess I would think that there was an accidental discharge of another soldiers weapon right there in the tent.

However the Canadian Govt. refuses to say how he was shot. I think they are waiting to release the actual facts when there is another big story going on so this can be buried on page 7 or so.

 

[snfu73]

Again this is speculation but it happened in his tent. If I had to make a guess I would think that there was an accidental discharge of another soldiers weapon right there in the tent.

However the Canadian Govt. refuses to say how he was shot. I think they are waiting to release the actual facts when there is another big story going on so this can be buried on page 7 or so.

I think that's overly sceptical. I think the opposition parties aren't going to let this die. I don't the families are going to let this die. I don't think Canadians will let the government let this die.

I don't know what happened. If they know, well, it will most likely come out in time. Again, there are thousands of bullets being shot in afghanistan everyday...it might not be as cut and dry as we would all love it to be.

 

[EagleSmack]

Let's see:

The Airborne Regiment disbanded in disgrace, despite the fact a new commander had imposed tough discipline and cleaned up the obvious problems.

A lowly private the only one sentenced to prison time, while commanding officers blame everyone else below them for the Regiment's problems, in direct opposition to the honourable military tradition that the commander takes the fall for any flaw in his command.

The Somalia Inquiry shut down and shut up in mid-stride.

Private Brown, although he admits to striking the youth, was the ONLY trooper (of several who knew Matchee was torturing the lad) who went to an officer and tried to get them to stop Corporal Matchee from killing the boy. Private Brown went to prison for manslaughter. Can you say "scapegoat"? (Matchee tried to kill himself by hanging, and is a vegetable)

During the inquiry, troops in the former Yugoslavia are in combat with the Croats in the Medak Pocket, a fact which the government tries to cover up because they don't want it known (in the light of Somalia) that Canadian soldiers are killing people. The troops are not recognized for their efforts.

Personally, I think Canada has FAILED MISERABLY to show "that it will deal with unacceptable incidents and behaviour quite well"

Yikes... you have a "big set" posting this here. It is funny how people neglect to mention these facts while pursuing their quest to bash others.

 

[snfu73]

Yikes... you have a "big set" posting this here. It is funny how people neglect to mention these facts while pursuing their quest to bash others.

What do you mean??

 

[Avro]

Nevertheless it was illegal according to International Law. It was not approved by the UN. Face it... it was illegal and Canada participated. What makes NATO the deciding factor on what international law is?

Canada thought it was a good cause to go and she broke International Law to do it regardless of the reasons. It was a Civil War between Yugoslavians that posed no threat whatsoever to Canada. None. The case that it would spill over into other countries is foolish and hollow. It is just an excuse because it was hurting the European economy. Money and the Market was the real reason. There are many differences between the two wars but that does not make your involvment in Yugoslavia LESS ILLEGAL.

No WMD's? Ask the Kurds about that.

Just to be clear about my views on the war... I want it over. I was not very keen on the idea of going in the first place. But now that we are there we need to stick it out.

I said more legitimate than the rag tag coalition of the willing and since you agree that your country invaded another for no apparent reason what should the punishment be?

It could have spilled across the boarder, did you miss WWI?

We served under NATO with our allies to protect our allies.

We also had the sense to stay out of your imperialistic war of BS in Iraq.

The Kurds? Are you kidding? That was in 1988, where are these so called WMD's that were a threat to the U.S. national security? interesting how we called Saddam a monster for gassing the Kurds to maintain control but worshiped Sir Winston Churchill for doing the exact same thing.

No, of course you weren't crazy about the Iraq war, in fact, it's hard to find any con who supported it nowadays....interesting isn't it? Except for the odd screw ball that still thinks it was about the war on terror like some of those empty headed morons over at Fox News.

You better stick it out, you made the mess and made the threat of terror worse.

Way to go America. :roll:

 

[EagleSmack]

I think that's overly sceptical. I think the opposition parties aren't going to let this die. I don't the families are going to let this die. I don't think Canadians will let the government let this die.

I don't know what happened. If they know, well, it will most likely come out in time. Again, there are thousands of bullets being shot in afghanistan everyday...it might not be as cut and dry as we would all love it to be.

All about the country side there are shots fired... granted. But this was a secure area and in his tent. I may be over speculating but not over sceptical. Blue on Blue has been a favorite tool to bash the US Military because we have thousands in theaters all over the world. We get into far too many conflicts and the odds are that if we are fighting year after year we will have a lot of Blue on Blue.

Listen, I am no hero but I have been to combat. I was in Panama. It is nothing compared to what these kids in Iraq are going through. We lost a person in my battalion to freindly fire. I was on a listening post myself and was fired upon by other Marines. I can see how it happens... and easily.

When myself and another Corporal set in for the night in the jungle we found that the position we were assigned provided 0 Visibility. I crawled back to the Sgt. and told him I was dropping back 10 meters from the planned position and to pass the word down what we were doing.

During the night we were fired upon by a Marine who didn't get the word and thought people were sneaking up on us when it was US he was firing on. Luckily he missed.

It happens and it is unfortunate.