Canadian Immigration

neocon-hunter

Time Out
Sep 27, 2005
201
0
16
Cloverdale, BC
RE: Immigration

Man, reguarding some of the comments I assume are from the right fringe (neocons) I am so dizzy from all their spin trying to justify their remarks.

no1important wrote:
There should be no borders and people should be allowed to move whenever and wherever they want to.

I agree but the right wing (neocon) governments of this world would rather fight and use their armies to control other countries than strive for world peace.
 

neocon-hunter

Time Out
Sep 27, 2005
201
0
16
Cloverdale, BC
RE: Immigration

Man, reguarding some of the comments I assume are from the right fringe (neocons) I am so dizzy from all their spin trying to justify their remarks.

no1important wrote:
There should be no borders and people should be allowed to move whenever and wherever they want to.

I agree but the right wing (neocon) governments of this world would rather fight and use their armies to control other countries than strive for world peace.
 

Vitamin C

Nominee Member
Sep 14, 2005
71
0
6
Ontario
Re: Immigration

Shiva said:
Immigration is allowed to happen because we have a need for skilled labour in certain communities. Immigrants are let in on the presumption that they're going to take their skills to the areas where they're needed, because if they weren't doing that, there'd be no reason to permit them entry! The fact that they're not going where they're needed is something that needs to be addressed. Since stopping immigration altogether would just be shooting ourselves in the foot, some other remedy is in order. If not this, I personally don't know what, but stopping the discussion of what to do altogether on ideological grounds is just supporting a status quo damaging to your fellow Canadians.

So not only do you want to tell people where they can live, but also what job they have to perform?

You think if someone trained as a <insert skill here> moves to Canada they should HAVE to move to nowhereVille because they need <insert skill here> there? Guess what, if they can get a job in Toronto, they ARE FILLING A NEED....

In communist Russia you were told what education you could take, what job you would have, and where you would live. Is that what you want?

Damn communists!
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Re: Immigration

In communist Russia you were told what education you could take, what job you would have, and where you would live. Is that what you want?

Ah, the old myths die hard. Can you tell us the one about how garbage men and doctors got paid the same wage too?
 

Shiva

Electoral Member
Sep 8, 2005
149
0
16
Toronto
Re: Immigration

Vitamin C said:
So not only do you want to tell people where they can live, but also what job they have to perform?

You think if someone trained as a <insert skill here> moves to Canada they should HAVE to move to nowhereVille because they need <insert skill here> there? Guess what, if they can get a job in Toronto, they ARE FILLING A NEED....

Actually, the system I'm proposing is one that most immigrants I know would prefer. Rather than filling the need of taxi drivers, labourers, and janitors, they'd be much happier working in small towns as engineers, doctors, etc. I never gave the issue much thought until my best friend's father went through so many hassles trying to find a job as an engineer, and he largely is the one who has mentioned these criticisms and possible solutions.

Vitamin C said:
In communist Russia you were told what education you could take, what job you would have, and where you would live. Is that what you want?

Damn communists!

Your comparison to communist Russia only emphasises how wrong that argument is. We're not talking about a controlled economy where people's educations have been chosen for them, their location has been chosen for them, etc. We're talking about a situation where a person has chosen his/her profession, chosen to move to Canada to work in his/her field, and is being asked to temporarily stay in a particular location until s/he becomes a Canadian citizen as a condition of their immigration. Any reasonable person can see the difference between the two situations. Would anyone object to the immigration of an individual who already has a job in advance to coming, and a place to stay? Would you call that communist? Obviously not!

You've been an ideologue on the issue from the get go and haven't mentioned anything at all that could possibly solve the issue. Call me a communist if you want- I don't care one whit of your opinion of me personally- but at least I'm trying to offer up something as a possible solution. It doesn't have to be what actually happens in the end, I was just trying to join the discussion. Whether you want to recognise it or not there is a problem, and the status quo is not beneficial to Canadians or to the immigrants themselves.
 

Hank C Cheyenne

Electoral Member
Sep 17, 2005
403
0
16
Calgary, Alberta.
RE: Immigration

Yup I agree with you shiva, some of the people on here are real morons. Immigrants who don't find the jobs in the big cities and end up as cab drives and working in MCdonalds is a disgrace. We need to work on putting these people in small towns where they are needed. Its better for Canada and the immigrants. Reverend Blair also makes some good points that if we leave it up to the province everyone gravitates to Ontario and Alberta.

Its not that these small towns dont have jobs its just that born Canadians leave becuase higher paying jobs are to be found in the city. Once an immigrant becomes a citizen then they can move where ever the hell they want, but I can guarantee you many will stay right where they are in small town canada.
 

Vitamin C

Nominee Member
Sep 14, 2005
71
0
6
Ontario
Re: Immigration

You don't understand the fundamental idea behind your arguement.

If an immigrant or any Canadian has the choice between a good paying job and a bad paying job, they should be allowed to take the good one.

If you are forcing someone to live somewhere, that means they don't want to live there. That means they could have gotten a better job somewhere else.

If an immigrant had a choice between being a taxi driver in Toronto or a Doctor somewhere else, I think they would become the doctor in the small town......

When you use the idea of "force" it means that they don't want to live there. Force means they have to give up, or sacrifice something. It means they have to take a job they don't want.

If there are in fact good jobs in these places, tell the immigrants about them and they will want to go there.....

The problem is there are no good jobs there. People who grow up there have to leave because they need to make money to be able to eat!

You think immigrants should have to live on less money than "normal" Canadians. That's what I'm getting from your arguement.
 

Hank C Cheyenne

Electoral Member
Sep 17, 2005
403
0
16
Calgary, Alberta.
RE: Immigration

Numure, Vitamin C, and NeoCON HUnter

you guys seem to be looking at this issue as a left vs. right stance. As in right wing wants to restrict and oppress immigrants and left wants to let them be free.

You coulden't be farther from the truth. Look at Rev Blair he is a leftie yet he can understand.....

Your partisan BS is getting in the way of your judgement. Only an uneducated person would bring up communist comments to the post made by Shiva.

..... but i guess my comments are dismissable because I am a relegious christian.
 

Vitamin C

Nominee Member
Sep 14, 2005
71
0
6
Ontario
RE: Immigration

Think about what you are suggesting. Forcing someone to live in a certain town.

Are you going to arrest them if they try to move?

Have checkpoints to make sure they don't leave?

It just seems ridiculous to me
 

Hank C Cheyenne

Electoral Member
Sep 17, 2005
403
0
16
Calgary, Alberta.
RE: Immigration

look at it like this

say there are 700 000 people applying to work in Canada, but we only import 250 000 every year.
150 000 are wanting to work in jobs in small centers across the country, and the 600 000 rest want to go to teh big cities. We would make sure 150 000 got to immigrate to the needed centers while the remaning top 100,00 can move to the Large cities.

....now if the big cities had an underimmigration problem then we could raise the leves so we don't negatively impact our "financial hubs". .
 

Vitamin C

Nominee Member
Sep 14, 2005
71
0
6
Ontario
RE: Immigration

And if they changed their mind when they got here? Then you arrest them and drag them back to the small town?
 

Hank C Cheyenne

Electoral Member
Sep 17, 2005
403
0
16
Calgary, Alberta.
RE: Immigration

once they are CANADIAN CITIZENS they should be free to move wherever they want to. Just don't forget we aint allowing immigrants in for no reason. They are filling in a need for Canada not the other way around. I mean if someone don't want to move here and work in a small town there are hundeds of thousands who would gladly take their place.

"And if they changed their mind when they got here? Then you arrest them and drag them back to the small town?"

... no we would not need to arrest them, if they do not want to work to become a citizen they would loose the work visa. And we should give the chance to another immigrant.
 

zenfisher

House Member
Sep 12, 2004
2,829
0
36
Seattle
Re: RE: Immigration

Hank C Cheyenne said:
once they are CANADIAN CITIZENS they should be free to move wherever they want to. Just don't forget we aint allowing immigrants in for no reason. They are filling in a need for Canada not the other way around. I mean if someone don't want to move here and work in a small town there are hundeds of thousands who would gladly take their place.

"And if they changed their mind when they got here? Then you arrest them and drag them back to the small town?"

... no we would not need to arrest them, if they do not want to work to become a citizen they would loose the work visa. And we should give the chance to another immigrant.

Who's going to pay to police this?
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Immigration

Since we need immigrants to fill jobs, and many of those immigrants need at least some certification to become Canadians, why not just tie it to their education? For that matter, why not do the same with people who were born here?

Nothing has to be forced, just offer to pay part or all of the tuition for training on the condition that the student spend a certain amount number of years working in a small town. If I was a doctor driving a cab in Toronto and could get certified and begin practicing by saying I'd spend 5 years working at the hospital in Thompson, I'd sure as hell take it.

That makes it a business deal. If the person doesn't met the terms of the deal, then they have to pay back the tuition.
 

Vitamin C

Nominee Member
Sep 14, 2005
71
0
6
Ontario
Re: RE: Immigration

Reverend Blair said:
Since we need immigrants to fill jobs, and many of those immigrants need at least some certification to become Canadians, why not just tie it to their education? For that matter, why not do the same with people who were born here?

Nothing has to be forced, just offer to pay part or all of the tuition for training on the condition that the student spend a certain amount number of years working in a small town. If I was a doctor driving a cab in Toronto and could get certified and begin practicing by saying I'd spend 5 years working at the hospital in Thompson, I'd sure as hell take it.

That makes it a business deal. If the person doesn't met the terms of the deal, then they have to pay back the tuition.

Exactly. That is why capitlism and freedom are so tied together. Competition is choice. And Choice is freedom. And if you want people to work in small towns just give them a good reason.

There lots of things you can do, lower taxes in small towns, etc....

It's interesting how "conservatives" turn into socialists and "liberals" turn into capitlists when talking about this issue. It goes to show you that it is wrong to label people as "right wing" or "left wing", because people have different views for every issue.
 

neocon-hunter

Time Out
Sep 27, 2005
201
0
16
Cloverdale, BC
Re: RE: Immigration

Hank C Cheyenne said:
Yup I agree with you shiva, some of the people on here are real morons.
.

So people with diferent views are morons? Pretty intelligant. Unlike Parts of Alberta we welcome immigrants and they blend in with little problems here.

everyone gravitates to Ontario and Alberta.

Actually BC gets a hell of a lot more immigrants than Alberta. Together, the big-city trinity attracted nearly three-quarters of the newcomers: Toronto claimed 43 per cent, or 792,000 people, while Vancouver collected 18 per cent and Montreal 12 per cent.

Numure, Vitamin C, and NeoCON HUnter

you guys seem to be looking at this issue as a left vs. right stance. As in right wing wants to restrict and oppress immigrants and left wants to let them be free.

What did I say that upset you Hank? That our Canadian constitution gives people the right of mobility? or the part where Iget dizzy where you , well neocons try to spin your discrimminatory views and views that people should be forced to live in certain areas? We are a free country.

FYI-
Vancouver is home to people of many ethnic backgrounds and religions. Chinese is by far, the largest visible ethnic minority group in the city. Vancouver contains the second largest Chinatown in North America (after San Francisco's), and many multicultural neighbourhoods such as the Punjabi Market, Japantown, Commercial Drive, and Koreatown which is developing synergy around Robson and Denman Streets in the West End. Street signs bilingual in English and Chinese or Punjabi can be seen at these centres of ethnic concentration. Prior to the hand-over of Hong Kong to China in 1997, many immigrants from Hong Kong made Vancouver their home, giving it the controversial nickname HongCouver. This continued a tradition of immigrants flocking from around the world to call Vancouver home. Statistics Canada data shows that 17% of the approximately 2 million people living in the metropolitan area are ethnic Chinese. Other significant asian ethnic groups in Vancouver are Vietnamese, Filipino, Cambodian, and Taiwanese

Much of the European population consists of persons whose origins go back to the U.K. as it was the number one ancestry according to the 2001 Census, and until recently it was a truism that British Columbians with UK ancestry most likely have that directly from the British Isles, rather than via Ontario or the Maritime Provinces. Other White groups consists of German, Dutch, French of both European and Canadian origin, Ukrainians, Italians, Yugoslavs, Greeks and, lately, numerous Russians and Poles. There is also a sizeable community of aboriginal people in Vancouver as well as in the surrounding metropolitan region, with the result that Vancouver constitutes the largest native community in the province, albeit an unincorporated one (i.e. not as a band government). There is an equally-large or larger Metis contingent, with these being a mix of traditional "real" Metis from the Prairies and others whose mixed native/non-native ancestry qualifies them legally as Metis.

Ethnic origin

* European: 1,200,010 or 63.5%
* Chinese: 332,560 or 17.6%
* Other Asian: 161,145 or 8.5%
* Filipino: 54,280 or 2.8%
* mixed ethnicity: 44,680 or 2.3%
* (based on single responses)

About half the population is Christian, the vast majority of them being technically Protestant,(I like this part) although Vancouver, like the rest of British Columbia, has a very low rate of church attendance compared to the rest of the continent and the vast majority of the population does not practice religion seriously. The Sikh, Hindu, and Buddhist populations are also very large, and within the growing Muslim population there is a large contingent of Ismaili Muslims who have settled in the area following their expulsion from Uganda.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Re: Immigration

Exactly. That is why capitlism and freedom are so tied together.

Ah, another myth. The way capitalism is practiced today has nothing to do with freedom or democracy. We are well on the way to oligarchy, and you are still promoting the same old fairy tales. If you look at the current pattern of corporate influence on government and the lack of real competition in the private sector, you'd see that Marx and Engels predicted this a long time ago.
 

Vitamin C

Nominee Member
Sep 14, 2005
71
0
6
Ontario
Re: Immigration

Reverend Blair said:
Ah, another myth. The way capitalism is practiced today has nothing to do with freedom or democracy. We are well on the way to oligarchy, and you are still promoting the same old fairy tales. If you look at the current pattern of corporate influence on government and the lack of real competition in the private sector, you'd see that Marx and Engels predicted this a long time ago.

You are certainly right. Today's markets here are not truly capitlistic, and that is the problem. Gov't needs to defend capitalism by ensuring fair trade practices, competition, etc.....

I was just making a general statement that competition and capitalism are linked freedom. I WAS NOT saying that we live in a society were competition and capitalism are king. Definately gov't needs to do more to protect these things.