Canadian gun rights.

[CDNBear]

well golly gee whiz....look at that.... 5 very good, comprehensive reasons for not having gun control and she didn't have to pull the red menace card or the brown shirt card. F*cking amazing I tell ya.

I think you missed the fact that that was a recap of what has already been hashed out...:roll:

 

[Machjo]

This is just following in USA’s foot steps slavishly, nothing more. There is a faction of conservatism in Canada, which would copy USA in each and every detail, try to replicate USA here in Canada. Their motto is American good, Canadian bad.

I take offense at the assumption that any idea I support that happens to also be recognized in US law, I support specifically because it is recognized in US law. I'm not referring to weapons policies per se here, but anything in general. If I support a particular idea that is currently legal in Canada, I do not support it specifically because it happens to be legal in Canada. If I see an idea I like from anywhere in the world, I like it independently of whether I like the country it comes from.

I don't consider myself a conservative necessarily, but I think it is insulting to suggest that if a person supports this or that idea it's because of the country it comes from. It insults their intelligence. Yes, I know there are idiots in the conservative camp, but you seem to be assuming that all conservatives are idiots.

Also, such argumentation is pointless in its illogicality. No intelligent person would ever argue that an advanced modern transportation infrastructure is a bad idea because the Nazis were the first ones to build such an infrastructure. By definition, an intelligent person can dissect the idea from its source, and acknowledge that a good idea is a good idea even if it comes from a fool, and a bad idea is a bad idea even if it comes from a genious.

USA has the highest crime rate in developed world, and almost no gun control. In my opinion the two are related, it is not just a coincidence. Even within USA, the states which have gun culture, where guns are revered only next to Jesus, the murder rate in such states (Bible Belt) is very high. Somebody gave the example of Alabama. Look up other Bible Belt states, (Texas, Mississippi etc.), where the mode of living is, Bible in one hand, gun (or a semi automatic) in the other. You will probably find that the murder rate there is high as well.

Perhaps a point worth considering, and I'd certainly like to see the reserch correlating the two. However, why did you not start with this paragraph instead of the one above aimed not at intelligent debate but rather empty anti-American rhetoric?

In face of such highly probable relationship between gun ownership and high crime, it is only the slavish follower of USA which would want to abolish all the gun regulation Canada. Incidentally, it is the same crowd which wants American style totally private health care in Canada.

Honestly, I'm somewhat undecided on both health care and gun ownership. Personally, I take good care of my health and have no need for a weapon. However, I also recognize that some may be born with health issues not of their doing and that some people need weapons for their livelihood. I'm always open to ideas from anywhere that can find a balance between these competing issues.However, I can guarantee you that even when I'm open to flirting with ideas that are common in the US, it's not because they are American ideas. I like the ideas on their own merit independently of whether they're US ideas.

I like the school voucher system for example. Are you now going to say I'm a blind worshiper of everything Swedish because of that? I also like some aspects of the Swedish healthcare system, and am undecided on a Swiss-style army, though I do like the Swedish idea of neutrality. Now are you going to say that I worship Sweden and Switzerland because of that?

I like the idea of advanced public transit as they have it in Tokyo and Hong Kong, and their efficient use of urban pace. Am I a worshiper of everything Japanese and Chinese as a result?
I'm pro-life, US law isn't, though the Philippines' laws are. So am I a worshiper of the Philippines now?
I support the freedom of schools to teach Esperanto as an alternative second language as is the case in the UK, Italy, Hungary, Poland, the US, and a few other countries (including a school in Halifax starting this past September). Does that mean I worship all these countries?

I don't know about you, but as for me, I support ideas on their own merits and not on whether they're supported or not in this or that country.

As far as I'm concerned, using such argumentation is not only offensive, but shows laziness in taking a cheap shot at the idea instead of actually dissecting it rationally.

You may be right about the correlation between gun ownership and crime, and perhaps we do need some kind of laws to regulate it to some degree. My issue is not with that but rather with your attempt at insulting the opposition's intelligence by linking it to worship of the US.

I'm sure you see the irrationality of assuming a person supports this or that idea just because it comes from this or that country.

But then I have this perennial question in my mind. If Canada is such an evil place (strict gun control, government controlled medicine, no death penalty etc.) and if USA is such a paradise, why don’t these people move to USA? If I felt such contempt for Canada and such awe for USA, I would move to USA in a flash.

I'm not necessarily opposed to public healthcare nor to gun control myself. However, to suggest that those who are are so specifically owing to a hatred of Canada is just as irrational and insulting as those who suggest that Canada is evil for having such.

I don't necessarily disagree with some of your arguments here, but the way you go about it is irrational and insulting.

 

[gerryh]

I think you missed the fact that that was a recap of what has already been hashed out...:roll:

I didn't miss anything. The biggest difference in her recap and this thread, is she didn't find it nesasary to pull the fear mongering cards like Bob and Colpy.

I guess she has more confidence in her position.

 

[Machjo]

And SJP, if you are as educated as you portray yourself to be, certainly you can see the fallacy in assuming a person supports this or that idea just because it stems from this or that source. An intelligent person support an idea on its own merits, regardless of its source.

 

[AnnaG]

You restrict crime by sensible gun control. This has worked in every developed country. The one country where there is no gun control of any kind, USA also has the highest crime rate in the developed world. To me, that is enough of a correlation to support gun control.

Nuts. They have murders in Japan (about half our rate, which isn't big to begin with) and there's NO guns at all allowed there. They put their energies into drugs, kidnappings, and rapes.

 

[Avro]

Oddly enough, if our friend was camped out with the Militias in North Dakota, he would be considerably safer than he would be in Canada.

The murder rate in North Dakota in 2008 (the latest year available) was 0.5 per
100,000. The murder rate in Canada in the same year was 1.8 per 100,000.....

In North Dakota, any law-abiding citizen MUST be issued a license to carry a handgun concealed upon request. There is no licensing to own any firearm,
no restriction on so-called "assault" rifles, 30 round mags for semi-autos are okay, the state scores 4 out of a possible 100 on Sarah Brady's gun "safety" scale.....

Murder rate one third that of Canada.

Perhaps you best re-think your arrogant assumptions...

I've seen you haul out this nonsense before Colpy....always makes me laugh.:lol:

Okay....what about this.


Country Murders Population Rate (per 100,000)
-----------------------------------------------------------
United States 13,429 254,521,000 5.28
Switzerland 97 6,828,023 1.42
Canada 128 27,351,509 0.47

Both Canada and Switzerland have much stricter gun control than the US.

Are you gonna compare a single town somewhere now to the entire planet?:roll::lol:

 

[CDNBear]

I didn't miss anything. The biggest difference in her recap and this thread, is she didn't find it nesasary to pull the fear mongering cards like Bob and Colpy.

I guess she has more confidence in her position.

:roll:

 

[Colpy]

You restrict crime by sensible gun control. This has worked in every developed country. The one country where there is no gun control of any kind, USA also has the highest crime rate in the developed world. To me, that is enough of a correlation to support gun control.

define "developed".

In this case, I guess it means "countries with a lower crime rate than the USA".

Canada has a higher crime rate than the USA, just for starters.

Look it up.

Oh yeah, he can't hear me.....lol

 

[gerryh]

:roll:

yup....down to empty.... just suckin air.

 

[AnnaG]

I didn't miss anything. The biggest difference in her recap and this thread, is she didn't find it nesasary to pull the fear mongering cards like Bob and Colpy.

I guess she has more confidence in her position.

I do because my points are backed by the evidence. But mostly, my points are my points because they are rational.

 

[CDNBear]

yup....down to empty.... just suckin air.

That's absolutely correct, I often run out of patience when dealing with people like you, mhz, eao, Jbee and so on. At least I'm sucking that air through my mouth.

 

[gerryh]

That's absolutely correct, but at least I'm sucking it through my mouth.

uhhhhhh...no..... cause you have not shown, at all, where I am wrong.

 

[AnnaG]

And SJP, if you are as educated as you portray yourself to be, certainly you can see the fallacy in assuming a person supports this or that idea just because it stems from this or that source. An intelligent person support an idea on its own merits, regardless of its source.

I keep telling you people that this is the way he is; he views things through political filters rather than reasons of merit and then he ASSumes everyone else does the same.

 

[Avro]

define "developed".

In this case, I guess it means "countries with a lower crime rate than the USA".

Canada has a higher crime rate than the USA, just for starters.

Look it up.

Oh yeah, he can't hear me.....lol

I did....um....did you?

 

[DaSleeper]

yup....down to empty.... just suckin air.

That's absolutely correct, I often run out of patience when dealing with people like you, mhz, eao, Jbee and so on. At least I'm sucking that air through my mouth.

uhhhhhh...no..... cause you have not shown, at all, where I am wrong.

That's what I like to see.....two old friends....just hangin' out having fun......stirin' and stirin':smile::lol:;-)

 

[Machjo]

I keep telling you people that this is the way he is; he views things through political filters rather than reasons of merit and then he ASSumes everyone else does the same.

He does come across as intelligent though. I get the impression that he's not that ignorant, but rather just too lazy or prejudiced to restrain himself from cheap shots at another country as a means of arguing without having to dig up a bunch of facts.

I don't get the impression he's so stupid as to actually believe what he writes here, but rather that he's just trying to be manipulative, though it irritates me just as much if not more so. Ignorance can be forgiven. Willful manipulation is, well, willful, intentional, premeditated.

 

[Colpy]

I've seen you haul out this nonsense before Colpy....always makes me laugh.:lol:

Okay....what about this.


Country Murders Population Rate (per 100,000)
-----------------------------------------------------------
United States 13,429 254,521,000 5.28
Switzerland 97 6,828,023 1.42
Canada 128 27,351,509 0.47

Both Canada and Switzerland have much stricter gun control than the US.

Are you gonna compare a single town somewhere now to the entire planet?:roll::lol:

Quote your source please.......the Canadian murder rate has NEVER been anywhere close to as low as o.47 per 100,000....in fact, it is 4 times that.....

The Swiss rate quoted is low as well, and the Swiss are the heaviest armed people on earth.......every male keeps a fully automatic rifle at home until his years of military service are done, then he can have it converted to semi-automatic and keep it as a personal weapon...........

Of course, the military weapons kept at home during service are not counted as weapons personally owned.........still, the Swiss rank third in the world for PRIVATE firearms ownership, with 46 guns per 100 people.

That fact speaks for itself.

 

[AnnaG]

I've seen you haul out this nonsense before Colpy....always makes me laugh.:lol:

Okay....what about this.


Country Murders Population Rate (per 100,000)
-----------------------------------------------------------
United States 13,429 254,521,000 5.28
Switzerland 97 6,828,023 1.42
Canada 128 27,351,509 0.47

Both Canada and Switzerland have much stricter gun control than the US.

Are you gonna compare a single town somewhere now to the entire planet?:roll::lol:

Um, tables don't translate too well into CanConese. lol
I think it's a matter of attitude. I think more Canadians (per capita) consider firearms to be tools rather than weapons and people in the States think the other way around, In Switzerland the things are considered strictly as tools only to be brought out of the cabinet when required. In Japan, I think they've had enough of killing and are mortified by it. I don't think laws have anything to do with the issue farther than reflecting the populations attitude.

 

[gerryh]

That's what I like to see.....two old friends....just hangin' out having fun......stirin' and stirin':smile::lol:;-)

What friends? You talkin about me and that drunk, wagon burnin, government teat suckin, half breed? ROFLMFAO

 

[DaSleeper]

I keep telling you people that this is the way he is; he views things through political filters rather than reasons of merit and then he ASSumes everyone else does the same.

Naaah!! He's just trolling:roll: