Canada's National Anthem - PC changes

[Risus]

I didn’t vote in the poll either, I think the poll is meaningless. And you are probably right; Harper suggested the change in order to go back to the older version (and not because he had any love for the gender neutral language), which would fit in nicely with the conservative philosophy (the older the better).

However, it was also the gender neutral version, so I assume many liberals would support it. Anyway, my hope would be that the next Liberal government does something about it, they obviously wouldn’t care what conservative supporters think.

Quite so, Machjo. Canada is a liberal, progressive nation, it always moved forward with the times. Even the conservatives here are comparable to the Democrats in USA, they are not really much further to the right of Democratic Party (otherwise they wouldn't get elected in Canada). There are some extreme nutcases of course.

So freeze the culture? Perish the thought. Our identity is always changing, always evolving.

LOL, for the topic being closed (your post #144) you are still doing a lot of blabbering about it...

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Methinks S.J. may have been rubbing off on him a bit.

Perhaps he is learning from the master, JLM. How to drive the conservatives apoplectic here without being insulting or rude.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I got a thick skin Gil, sometimes I blow it but generally get over it in a month or so. :smile: Anyway p*ssing me off is just wishful thinking on S.J.'s part.

You have a thick skin, JLM? Surely you jest.

 

[lone wolf]

Rudeness is also an air.

*sniff - sniff*


Yup.... He's been here....

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Again, how do we define conservative, SJP? The CPC was suggesting we re-adopt an earlier version. That would seem not just conservative but even reactionary. Though their reasoning was that it was more inclusive of women. Of course that is likely what caused it to blow up in their faces; conservative supporters unaware that they were not proposing a 'new' anthme but rather going back to an old one led to a backlash against 'political correctness'.

This was a rare instance where what Harper wanted to do would have had more support from liberals than from conservatives. I for one wouldn't mind going back to the older version if it is more gender neutral.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

No, I don't mean abolish it. I mean de-officialize it. This would mean that the government would no longer recognize any one anthem over any other. By the way, God Save the Queen is not official in the UK either, nor is the English national anthem (in fact, there are at least two contenders for that position at the moment). Sweden's Du Gamla Du Frieden is not offical either. And have those countries simply vanished nto thn air owing to the lack of an official verion of their anthem?

Yes, I see what you are getting at, it might work. I was told that India also has two national anthems, there is a Hindi one and a Sanskrit one.

 

[Machjo]

This was a rare instance where what Harper wanted to do would have had more support from liberals than from conservatives. I for one wouldn't mind going back to the older version if it is more gender neutral.

Another option would be this one:

O Canada! Terre de nos aïeux,
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!

Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.

Et ta valeur, de foi trempée,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

Seeing that this version, simply a mixtures of the two already-official versions, is already well-known among Canadian bilinguals, why not just adopt this version? It removes all references to God and any potentially sexist language while sticking to a version that is already commonly known among Canadian bilinguals.

I would still prefer the option of simply de-officializing it though since that way it puts both Euro-Canadians and indigenous Canadians on an at least somewhat more equal footing.

 

[Machjo]

Yes, I see what you are getting at, it might work. I was told that India also has two national anthems, there is a Hindi one and a Sanskrit one.

Why wouldn't it work?Then we'd each be free to sing the anthem of our choice. Let the anthem evolve.

 

[Machjo]

Yes, I see what you are getting at, it might work. I was told that India also has two national anthems, there is a Hindi one and a Sanskrit one.

Another point with this. If it were de-officialized, then those who prefer the curent vesions could continue singing them, while others would experiment with other versions. We might see for example that certain women's groups would prefer to adopt an alternative version. Some more Anglophilic groups might choose to go back to the Maple Leaf forever. Loyalist types might want to go back to God Save the Queen. Other groups might experiment with other versions on occasion.

My guess is that at least in the short term, any major event organizer would play it cautiously with the more common one. However, if an alternative version should ever prove particularly successful in future, then we might start to see that one at major events too. It would lead to a naturally evolving situation.

 

[gerryh]

and when you're in a stadium, a dozen different versions get sung at the same time... wouldn't that be lovely.

 

[Machjo]

and when you're in a stadium, a dozen different versions get sung at the same time... wouldn't that be lovely.

Of course the organizers would select a version and have it sung. My guess is that the same or similar would happen here as in the UK and Sweden, for example. The commonly known version is the one most, in fact the vast majority, of organizers would go with. Less commonly known versions would likely become known only within certain specific circles. The predominant version would not likely be dethroned unless something significantly better should go along. The UK has no official version either any more than Sweden, yet there is a version all seem to know and sing to at events. Why would it be any different in Canada?

 

[Risus]

Rudeness is also an air.

*sniff - sniff*


Yup.... He's been here....

Actually thats JP smoking...

 

[JLM]

"What they wanted was an insipid genderless, and 'God' less version,"

Oh- I was always under the impression Harper was a God fearing man.

 

[JLM]

Well, wifey already emailed the gov't and asked them if there's nothing more important that needs "fixing" than the anthem. I echo her sentiments. With all that is wrong with the country now, they want to waste money to "fix" the anthem? Bloody lunacy.

Even if they were crazy enough to change it, it shouldn't cost too much- a little "white out" should do the trick. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Another point with this. If it were de-officialized, then those who prefer the curent vesions could continue singing them, while others would experiment with other versions. We might see for example that certain women's groups would prefer to adopt an alternative version. Some more Anglophilic groups might choose to go back to the Maple Leaf forever. Loyalist types might want to go back to God Save the Queen. Other groups might experiment with other versions on occasion.

My guess is that at least in the short term, any major event organizer would play it cautiously with the more common one. However, if an alternative version should ever prove particularly successful in future, then we might start to see that one at major events too. It would lead to a naturally evolving situation.

Quite so, many would still continue singing the current anthem. But people will be free to experiment, and slowly the current anthem will probably replaced by a more suitable one.

As to singing it at the Olympics, let the gold medalist choose which version he/she wants sung.

 

[JLM]

My point was that it's pretty sad that someone takes pride in pissing people off rather than being sociable, especially if the only gain is personal enjoyment. It's a small-scale psychosis.

Hey, people tend to do what they can.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

"What they wanted was an insipid genderless, and 'God' less version,"

Oh- I was always under the impression Harper was a God fearing man.

There is nothing wrong with genderless and Godless version, JLM. As to Harper being a God fearing man, we just don't know. It may be that he has adopted the God fearing facade to placate the religious right. Or he may belong to it himself. If he ever gets a majority, we will see his true colours. At present he is doing whatever necessary to stay in power.

 

[JLM]

Only 3/4? You are being too kind, JLM. And yes, in my opinion, the forum is dominated by conservatives. Anyway, now I know a surefire way of p*ssing you off.

Let's just say for sake of argument that most of the posters here are Conservatives. Conservatives like other parties are nice intelligent people so, WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Let's just say for sake of argument that most of the posters here are Conservatives. Conservatives like other parties are nice intelligent people so, WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

There is no need to shout, JLM. My point is that conservatives are more likely to oppose any changes in the national anthem than liberals. Conservatives instinctively oppose anything new, any new initiative. And that explains the poll result. That really was my point.

 

[lone wolf]

There is no need to shout, JLM. My point is that conservatives are more likely to oppose any changes in the national anthem than liberals. Conservatives instinctively oppose anything new, any new initiative. And that explains the poll result. That really was my point.

You don't like the poll because it doesn't support your claims. Just admit you're incorrect and only human....