Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

Yes, we occupy Afghanistan. WE WERE ATTACKED! People keep conveniently forgetting that. More people died at the WTC than at Pearl Harbour. The USA is our ally, and we needed to step in to help.

I didn't see us occupying Japan.

Ah, you should have.

The Allies occupied Japan from August 1945, until April 1952. General MacArthur was the first "Supreme Leader" and personally wrote the constitution under which the Japanese still live.

We also occupied Germany. The occupation by ALL Allied powers did not officially end until Sept. 12, 1990! (Much to my surprize)

Edited to say:

Besides, we were INVITED to Afghanistan by its elected government. In fact President Karzai will come to Canada later this month to plead with us to stay.

Strange "occupation"!

 

[GentleGiant]

It is amazing how many folks on here WANT terrorists such as Taliban and Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Tamil Tigers to occupy Canada full time and behead all of our women who go out without their husbands and and girls going to school. It would mean the end of all churches, no more unions, and farmland would become poppy fields that will produce opium. That is really what they are saying.

They have no concept regarding the war on terrorism and as a result they do not want Canadian Soldiers battling terrorists because in the end that would mean top notch protection for us Canadian citizens. These folks do not want that to happen. Wonder why??

 

[Logic 7]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

First of all OSAMA CONFESSED. What part of that is too complicated for you?

Secondly, Canadians died pn 9-11. Not only that, terrorist cells have existed in Canada, and have plotted to hit Canadian targets long before 9-11. Lastly, the United States is our ally, we have lived safely under the umbrella of their protection for more than one-half a century. We are signatories of treaties in which we agree that an attack on either nation is to be considered an attack on both. Time to step up to the plate.

Thirdly, do you know my parents? Perhaps it would be wise if you didn't speak about things that are beyond your limited understanding.

It always amazes me that you "progressives" espouse tolerance to the point of surrender in the face of those that would destroy you, and then turn and heap scorn and abuse on the philosophies that are the very foundation of the civilization that has made you rich and free.

How stupid is that?

First of all, oussama never confessed, the guy on the video isnt oussama bin laden, check the video and check the description of the fbi here

www.fbi.gov


Tell me where on their web site, it says, oussama bin laden is wanted for 9-11?

Tell me how come oussama on the video you claim he did confessed, he became right handed?? when fbi says he is left handed, how come bin laden became so fat suddently?? why does he wear a gold ring, which is forbidden by extremist islamist?

Not only this, but he denied any involvement on twice occasion right after 9-11, the video brought by us officials isnt credible at all, just like everything they did since 2001, even fbi doesnt go with it, so please get your facts straight, i know it is hard for a fundamentalist whatever you are.


Don't worry , no arab nation is on a position to destroy me, in fact the west are in a very good position to kill them all, and it is pretty well started with their greath fascist friends which are israel(look at palestine, lebanon, iraq, are you that naive?) and usa, the reason why you are ready to kill them all just in case for your own security, is only for one reason/word. it is because you are a coward at the highest level.

 

[Logic 7]

It is amazing how many folks on here WANT terrorists such as Taliban and Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Tamil Tigers to occupy Canada full time and behead all of our women who go out without their husbands and and girls going to school. It would mean the end of all churches, no more unions, and farmland would become poppy fields that will produce opium. That is really what they are saying.

They have no concept regarding the war on terrorism and as a result they do not want Canadian Soldiers battling terrorists because in the end that would mean top notch protection for us Canadian citizens. These folks do not want that to happen. Wonder why??

ahahahahah , that is the most funniest thing i ever read on any forum, according to the UNited nations, taliban got rid of 90% of opium production around the world in 2000, the biggest coup in history, then the invasion came, all this opium got back to the market.


And tell me how, alqueada, taliban etcc would be able to invade canada?

You guys have reach a new level of stupidity by saying this.

 

[I think not]

You guys have reach a new level of stupidity by saying this.

I'm waiting to see when you will use your infamous phrase; The Axis of Coward Chicken Bastard.

 

[Colpy]

Logic 7, you are becoming quite irritating.

Perhaps prozac would help.

You don't know a damned thing about anything. Every argument you enter into reveals the depth of your ignorance, both figuratively and literally.

You grasp at straws. Osama denied involvement when he was trying to keep us from invading his adopted home and base of operations.....Afghanistan.

Not that you will be swayed by that. I become increasingly convinced that you have serious mental problems. Seek help.

 

[GentleGiant]

Colby:

Illogic7 doesn't understand the word "help". He doesn't know that terrorists are already here in Canada and have been for years. He doesn't know that Osama Bin Laden did orchestrate the attack on September 11th and admitted it sometime later on Al Jazeera TV.

He doesn't understand that there was a terrorist training camp north of Barrie Ontario run by Islamic terrorists in Toronto. He doesn't know why this country has a military.

He doesn't know that the Tamil Tigers who are terrorists conduct fund raising every week in Toronto to send money overseas to purchase arms and explosives to kill men women and children in Sri Lanka. He doesn't know that Paul Martin and the Lieberals supported a fund raising dinner in Scarborough with Paul Martin being the guest speaker.

He doesn't understand truth facts and reality. Wonder which dope house he resides in?

 

[Logic 7]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

Logic 7, you are becoming quite irritating.

Perhaps prozac would help.

You don't know a damned thing about anything. Every argument you enter into reveals the depth of your ignorance, both figuratively and literally.

You grasp at straws. Osama denied involvement when he was trying to keep us from invading his adopted home and base of operations.....Afghanistan.

Not that you will be swayed by that. I become increasingly convinced that you have serious mental problems. Seek help.

Let's make it clear,You just can't debate, once all your arguments has been killed, you try to make me look like a fool, but sorry, what you just said, proved my claim.Thankx.

 

[GentleGiant]

No one is trying to make illogic7 look or behave like a fool simply because he is so good at doing that on behalf of himself. That is just about the only thing he is good at.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

The Allies occupied Japan from August 1945, until April 1952. General MacArthur was the first "Supreme Leader" and personally wrote the constitution under which the Japanese still live.

We also occupied Germany. The occupation by ALL Allied powers did not officially end until Sept. 12, 1990! (Much to my surprize)

I’m not talking about a more symbolic military presence following an already defeated country. The US is all over (were all over before Iraq) the globe in that regards. The US are basically still occupying the Philippines if we mean it in this sense. After all, there are even military operations that occur in the Philippines with the muslim south that involve some US assistance. Even if that amounts to logistics. They have huge military bases there.

I won’t stick my foot in my mouth however. I’m sure I’ll have points taken against me on a technicality that you’ve cornered me on. I just don’t view it the same way as occupation relative to Afghanistan with soldiers continuing to bomb positions, kicking down the doors of villages and participating in various sweeps. But yes, I am aware of US servicemen learning a lot of karate over a duration.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

The Allies occupied Japan from August 1945, until April 1952. General MacArthur was the first "Supreme Leader" and personally wrote the constitution under which the Japanese still live.

We also occupied Germany. The occupation by ALL Allied powers did not officially end until Sept. 12, 1990! (Much to my surprize)

Is this what you meant Jay? I kind of like the way Colpy laid it out for me.

Besides, we were INVITED to Afghanistan by its elected government. In fact President Karzai will come to Canada later this month to plead with us to stay.

Karzai is a whole other ball of wax. This is more of a propped up government than anything else. Oh but don't get me started on that one!

 

[Colpy]

I'm certainly not trying to play a game of semantics with you.........

The simple fact is we base our reactions to the Canadian presence in Afghanistan on different foundations, a different view of what is important, a different world view.

In my experience, it is important to recognize those who would harm you as enemies, and it is important to take the fight to them, it is important to support your allies, it is important to defend yourself and your friends, come what may.

If you will forgive my presumption, in your world there seems to be a different set of priorities. To you it is important that Canada maintain a position of neutrality in all things, it is important not to be judgemental, it is important that we harm no one, it is important we keep ourselves clear of harm.

The two world views are incompatible.

We'll never agree, but carry on. The debate itself is a decent exercise of the mind.

At least you are capable of linear thought, and are not usually arrogant and insulting, like certain others here we won't mention.

 

[#juan]

It is amazing how many folks on here WANT terrorists such as Taliban and Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Tamil Tigers to occupy Canada full time and behead all of our women who go out without their husbands and and girls going to school. It would mean the end of all churches, no more unions, and farmland would become poppy fields that will produce opium. That is really what they are saying.

They have no concept regarding the war on terrorism and as a result they do not want Canadian Soldiers battling terrorists because in the end that would mean top notch protection for us Canadian citizens. These folks do not want that to happen. Wonder why??

I wouldn't attack you personally gentle giant,

but this post is complete, asinine, childish, drivel. People who disagree with the American oil wars are not in favour of any terrorist group, and it is ridiculous to even think anyone would condone those groups in Canada. We have police, and if necessary, the military to handle that sort of thing in our own country. Afghanistan is not our country. That puppet the Americans put into office does not represent all Afghanis, or even most Afghanis. I doubt that anyone does, or ever will.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

No, no presumption. You are almost entirely right. I must add however that that I do believe in supporting allies. However I expect those allies to conduct themselves by very high standards. When they start acting 'as the rogue nation' they breach that glue that bonds us to their commitments, not necessarily our friendship.

I do believe in sacrifice. Actively protecting our way of life. However, I see war as a very last resort and one that comes truly in defense of the country. I know 911 is perceived as an attack on US soil but I view terrorism as a domestic security challenge to be handled by a nations laws/police and court system more than anything else. In some ways 911’s goal by the terrorists was to draw the US into a regional war with Arabs. They accomplished this as a much smaller organization than they are now. In this sense we have allowed them to succeed. That is a huge irony that glares back, and is hard for me to swallow as to this continent being so gullible at falling for it.

I don’t like to be judgmental in the sense that I feel everyone in the world, no matter where, has the potential to be noble. To be virtuous. To have a good heart. And I’ve witnessed that factually. Everyone has such stories that transcend the boundaries that would separate us. Therefore I believe that everyone is deserving of the same rope to create ties with us, or to hang themselves by. I believe at working with people’s good side and building bridges on common ground foremost than focusing greatly on differences and using violence to such a capacity to bring change. I believe friendships/mutuality does come about through kindness, and friendships therefore achieved has a greater capacity to influence positive direction.

If you will forgive my presumption, in your world there seems to be a different set of priorities. To you it is important that Canada maintain a position of neutrality in all things, it is important not to be judgemental, it is important that we harm no one, it is important we keep ourselves clear of harm.

I’m just throwing details at you now. This statement however is correct.

I will say Colpy that you astound me with this post. This is quite the bridge of clarity between us. I always appreciate moments where I am humbled in life. It takes me back to where I should be. 'My Zen' through which current political developments have somewhat shattered. And I WAS much better at 'Zen' than I am now. What a failing of myself, but how can I get back to my quiet stream of thought and demeanor now that even Global Warming dries up the waters?

Your right. In a kind way you’ve presented a truth that we will probably never agree with one another on some major issues. With that, I hope you will always appreciate the impasse in argument I will cause for you.

 

[WilliamAshley]

RE: Canada should pull it

Looking at economic statistic doesn't equate real wealth. Money is funneled from a central source and oddly with the unbacked currency system is based on "potential for trade" not for actual wealth. Actual wealth is natural resources and personal skills to effectively manage the environment for a sustainable and healthy/enjoyable human environment.

There may not be tons of oil in Afghanastan but there is potential for substancial natural gas. It as is the Center of Europe and Asia more or less.

Honestly imo, there is no reason for NATO to be in Afghanistan, and I firmly beleive that it is not an overall benifit for them to be in Afghanistan.

imo, Afghanistan is a NATO operation with strong leaning towards operational theatre, that is generally used to destabalize the Middle east, and weaken Pakistans effectiveness. Iran/Pakistan/Afganistan are seemingly closely tied to one another, and Iran tied to Syria and Lebanon loosely. The Iranians and Pakistan may be forming more with Russia and China in operational capacities but only lightly. There is honestly no reason to be there. In effect they are supporting the capacity to continue hostile and uneven operations in the area, and to use force to destabalize and realign the countries. Seeminly to little noticable change. It is a money trap for the military industrial complex.. fear mongering and incitment of miitant fundamentalism.

It plays out as a war of economic attrition. If you question what the goal of Canada is in Afghanistan, it is essentially to insure that Canadian values go into the decision making process of Afghani life. It is much the same as me telling my neighbour what to do with their yard.

When it is a "war" situation all "nicities" are cast aside. It is not a humanitarian mission it is a war of forced subjectivity, importing goods and services, and creating greater common standardization of key governmental insitutions. It is a global operation. They are opening a door to business, by way of cleaning house with anyone who stops it. It is not new from European or American economic policies of the past.

As for Canada's mandate the ONLY way you will have Canada out of Afghanistan before 2009 OR LATER.. is by electing NDP or supporting me for prime minister and voting a bunch of independant that agree with me in.

It's NATO. Canada has no legitimate reason for being in Afghanistan, plain and simple. It's nice to think that you can make a difference in aligning the world more to your values but is genocide of dissenters really an answer you'd support for the rest of your life?

 

[elevennevele]

RE: Canada should pull it

This is a great post WilliamAshley. And though I don't believe discussion forums are a place for giving praise I really appreciate this contribution as to describing the context of this Afghanistan Mission.

 

[GentleGiant]

Juan wake up. This is not about oil !! Fact !! Stop the BS! Please this is not about Oil never was and never will be!!

The UN sanctioned NATO to go into Afghanistan because their Government needed helpto eliminate the Taliban who are terrorists and kill innocent citizens in that country.

Juan you sound like an NDPer from BC and they are a huge problem in Canada.They support terrorism, corruption , lying and cheating.

Juan why do you support killing of women and girls who go to school? WHY?
Why do you support terrorism? WHY?

Juan are you ready when the terrorists blow up subways and transit systems in Vancouver and Victoria and kill men women and children?

Juan why do you support that kind of thing because it is obvious that you do?

Hey Juan I betcha that you would be happy when the terrorist kill all of the idiot NDPers in Nanaimo-Cowachin who are totally brainless!!

You would extoll terrorism then wouldn't you?

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !!!!!!!!!

 

[#juan]

Juan wake up. This is not about oil !! Fact !! Stop the BS! Please this is not about Oil never was and never will be!!

The UN sanctioned NATO to go into Afghanistan because their Government needed helpto eliminate the Taliban who are terrorists and kill innocent citizens in that country.

Juan you sound like an NDPer from BC and they are a huge problem in Canada.They support terrorism, corruption , lying and cheating.

Juan why do you support killing of women and girls who go to school? WHY?
Why do you support terrorism? WHY?

Juan are you ready when the terrorists blow up subways and transit systems in Vancouver and Victoria and kill men women and children?

Juan why do you support that kind of thing because it is obvious that you do?

Hey Juan I betcha that you would be happy when the terrorist kill all of the idiot NDPers in Nanaimo-Cowachin who are totally brainless!!

You would extoll terrorism then wouldn't you?

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !!!!!!!!!

Your post is total teenage blather. Not worth a reply.

 

[GentleGiant]

Juan Thank You You have proved my points absolutely.

Lefties are a problem in this country big time !!

Thanks again for proving it !!

 

[tamarin]

GentleGiant, when the Canuck kids come home. Exasperated, strained and many of them broken. I want you to pay for their rehabilitation.
This is a war they can't win. A war against fanatics who don't give a whit about their own lives. Who fight to maintain a dogma, a way of life and a culture we'll never understand.
We're there to do our two cents worth to counter terrorism. Fighting the constantly refortified and replenished Taliban on their own turf is stupid. The real battle is elsewhere. Their major safe area, Pakistan. And those other countries who form the backbone of their trade and supply. But don't send our kids in to fight where victory can't be won. That's unforgivable.