Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

[Logic 7]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

First of all, 9-11 there is no evidence that alqueada did it, so please stop using this.

Bin Laden: Yes, I did it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml

This article talks about the video, that US officials released in november 2001, found by us troops in afganisthan, this tape is highly disputed , no one except us officials says it is a really oussama bin laden, check fbi description of oussama, and it really doenst fit the guy who is on the tape.enough said, not only this , but to prove there is no evidence at all,fbi doesnt even link oussama bin laden to 9-11.


www.fbi.gov




You guys will believe anything your governement tells you, until someone from very high command tells you that it is a lie, just like some parents has to tell their children,
""ok you are 10 years old now,my boy and no, santa claus doesnt exist at all""
even though all evidence were right there all along.

 

[GentleGiant]

Logic7 Grow up.Al Jezeera showed the video on Arab TV that Bin Laden did in fact engineer 9-11 and there are many other sources that support that.

So are you a Muslim and supporter of Bin Laden the terrorist??

Sounds like you are !!

 

[GentleGiant]

Logic7 try this one: I know you won't like it because it is truth and fact.

-----------------------------------------


Last Updated: Thursday, 7 September 2006, 22:15 GMT 23:15 UK

Bin Laden '9/11 video' broadcast

Al-Jazeera did not say how it obtained the tape

Arabic TV channel Al-Jazeera has broadcast what it says is unseen footage of Osama Bin Laden meeting some of the 9/11 hijackers.
The channel said it showed al-Qaeda leaders "preparing for the attacks and practising their execution".

Bin Laden is seen walking outdoors in a mountainous area wearing a dark robe and white head gear.

The broadcast came four days before the fifth anniversary of the 11 September 2001 attacks.

'Suicide' videos

The footage also shows the al-Qaeda leader meeting senior figures Ramzi Binalshibh and Mohammed Atef in what al-Jazeera said were the mountains of Afghanistan.

Binalshibh was captured in 2002 and Atef was killed by a US air strike in Afghanistan in late 2001.


The tape also showed al-Qaeda training exercises

The BBC's Adam Brookes in Washington says it appears to be a meeting held just a few days before the 9/11 attacks took place.

He says that although there will be little current intelligence to be gleaned from the videotape, the images and their ghostly quality serve as reminders of the intricacy and potency of the 9/11 plot.

Al-Jazeera also showed a tape said to be of the new al-Qaeda leader in Iraq urging Iraqis to join with insurgents.

The speaker on the tape, identified as Abu Hamza al-Muhajir, says he is confident victory will be achieved.

Mujahir is said to have taken over al-Qaeda in Iraq after the killing of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in June.

Mujahir tells US forces not to be "proud of the number and the equipment", adding: "The war has just begun."

Al-Jazeera also showed "suicide" videos by Wael al-Shihri and Hamza al-Ghamdi, two of the hijackers who crashed planes into the World Trade Center.

The station did not say how it obtained the videos.

-----------------------------------------

So Illogical7 defend your previous erroneous post !!

 

[#juan]

Logic7 Grow up.Al Jezeera showed the video on Arab TV that Bin Laden did in fact engineer 9-11 and there are many other sources that support that.

So are you a Muslim and supporter of Bin Laden the terrorist??

Sounds like you are !!

It sounds very much like "you're with us, or you're with the terrorists". Still doesn't make any sense.

 

[athabaska]

Right or wrong there is no consensus in Canada that we should be in Afghanistan in a military role. That, itself, is a reason not to continue the war. Democracies should only be at war when it is agreed upon as an imperative by the overwhelming majority of its citizens. A military going to war without the country going to war is doomed to sputter and run out of energy and purpose.

 

[Gonzo]

If it's not the Taliban thats shooting at our soldiers it's the Americans. We should leave. What are they fighting for? Was it to capture Bin Laden? Yes, thats why we went. America was attacked by Bin Laden, we went to find him, he's not there, then lets leave.

 

[Logic 7]

Logic7 Grow up.Al Jezeera showed the video on Arab TV that Bin Laden did in fact engineer 9-11 and there are many other sources that support that.

So are you a Muslim and supporter of Bin Laden the terrorist??

Sounds like you are !!

Nobody will convinced me that those video's proved bin laden did 9-11, why this would be more convincing that the 2 statement by bin laden right after 9-11 where he states, that he wasnt involved, and yes the tape was found by US troops, and released by US officials, doesnt matter if aljazeerah published it.

I am not a muslim, i am not a bin laden supporter(if you look for their supporter, just follow the money-------bush-----saudi----cia---ISI----) i am not even a fan of their culture, but what the west are doing to them these days is a shame, the way lebaneses, palestinians, iraqies and afganies are threated by the west is also a shame, you should be ashame of yourself to support such a barbarian policy.

 

[Logic 7]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

First of all Osama has a history of attacks against the USA, both threatened and carried out. Then he CONFESSED! (That Osama! What a KIDDER! Life of the party!)

Secondly, "......all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." I would say negotiating with Islamists is much, much worse than doing nothing. We need to kill them, not negotiate with them. (Note I say ISLAMISTS, by which I mean radical Muslims that wish to destroy western civilization)

BTW, I was RAISED by fundamentalist Christians. Hardcore, backwoods Baptists, no drinking, no dancing, certainly no sex before marriage. Extremely conservative. They were (and my Mom still is) as gentle, as honest, as generous, and as straight forward as people can be. I never saw them try to force anyone to adopt their beliefs, and at the foundation of their religion was freedom of choice. So you're stepping on toes BIG time with your last crack, where you equate fundamentaliast Christians with Islamic terrorists.

Not that I'm surprized.

First of all, even FBI doesnt link oussma to 9-11, so check out your facts.

Secondly, the only one who can destroy the other one, is the west, not them, you can't be mad at them for being radicals towards you, look at you, no one has done anything to you, no arab nation are occupying your country, no one is threatened to occupied your country, still you are ready to kill them all, imagine if you were a muslim.

Third, i am not surprised that you were raised by fundamentalist, the way you spew your hatred, and the way you spew bs on them, support totally your claim, probably the only fact you got right on this forum.

 

[Hotshot]

[
It sounds very much like "you're with us, or you're with the terrorists". Still doesn't make any sense.

That comment by bushinski just shows the arrogant mentality (if he acuually has any) of the jerk. I would dare say that the majority of the population of the world did not support his illegal war.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

First of all Osama has a history of attacks against the USA, both threatened and carried out. Then he CONFESSED! (That Osama! What a KIDDER! Life of the party!)

Secondly, "......all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." I would say negotiating with Islamists is much, much worse than doing nothing. We need to kill them, not negotiate with them. (Note I say ISLAMISTS, by which I mean radical Muslims that wish to destroy western civilization)

BTW, I was RAISED by fundamentalist Christians. Hardcore, backwoods Baptists, no drinking, no dancing, certainly no sex before marriage. Extremely conservative. They were (and my Mom still is) as gentle, as honest, as generous, and as straight forward as people can be. I never saw them try to force anyone to adopt their beliefs, and at the foundation of their religion was freedom of choice. So you're stepping on toes BIG time with your last crack, where you equate fundamentaliast Christians with Islamic terrorists.

Not that I'm surprized.

First of all, even FBI doesnt link oussma to 9-11, so check out your facts.

Secondly, the only one who can destroy the other one, is the west, not them, you can't be mad at them for being radicals towards you, look at you, no one has done anything to you, no arab nation are occupying your country, no one is threatened to occupied your country, still you are ready to kill them all, imagine if you were a muslim.

Third, i am not surprised that you were raised by fundamentalist, the way you spew your hatred, and the way you spew bs on them, support totally your claim, probably the only fact you got right on this forum.

First of all OSAMA CONFESSED. What part of that is too complicated for you?

Secondly, Canadians died pn 9-11. Not only that, terrorist cells have existed in Canada, and have plotted to hit Canadian targets long before 9-11. Lastly, the United States is our ally, we have lived safely under the umbrella of their protection for more than one-half a century. We are signatories of treaties in which we agree that an attack on either nation is to be considered an attack on both. Time to step up to the plate.

Thirdly, do you know my parents? Perhaps it would be wise if you didn't speak about things that are beyond your limited understanding.

It always amazes me that you "progressives" espouse tolerance to the point of surrender in the face of those that would destroy you, and then turn and heap scorn and abuse on the philosophies that are the very foundation of the civilization that has made you rich and free.

How stupid is that?

 

[gc]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

First of all, even FBI doesnt link oussma to 9-11, so check out your facts.

Please answer me this question, I asked it in another thread but I don't think you responded....

If the government is behind 9/11, or even behind some sort of cover-up, why would the FBI not implicate bin laden for 9/11? Think about it, if the government wants people to think bin laden was behind 9/11 why wouldn't the FBI also say that bin laden was behind 9/11. The FBI is afterall a government organization right? The argument that bin laden didn't do it because the FBI doesn't say he did it doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[gc]

RE: Canada should pull it

Here's an interesting article from the CBC today Link

I haven't actually watched this videotape, but if it does indeed show bin laden planning 9/11, then I'd say that's pretty good proof right there.

 

[Colpy]

I do fear for this country. All this talk of abandoning the fight in Afghanistan........this is not the country I used to know.

Have we become so weak, so ineffective, so unsure of ourselves that we can not absorb 32 dead in 4 YEARS?

I've just been reading of another fight on a foreign shore.....a fight against an enemy that HAD NOT attacked Canada, a fight undertaken only because our greatest ally of the time was threatened.

In that fight, on the beaches of France at Dieppe, we lost 907 killed IN NINE HOURS! The attack was poorly planned, inadequately kept secret, plaqued by bad luck, and cursed with a lack of support................total Canadian casualties were over 3300 out of a force of 5000.

Did Canada turn tail?

No.

And who today would say we should have abandoned the cause?

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

I do fear for this country. All this talk of abandoning the fight in Afghanistan........this is not the country I used to know.

Have we become so weak, so ineffective, so unsure of ourselves that we can not absorb 32 dead in 4 YEARS?

I've just been reading of another fight on a foreign shore.....a fight against an enemy that HAD NOT attacked Canada, a fight undertaken only because our greatest ally of the time was threatened.

In that fight, on the beaches of France at Dieppe, we lost 907 killed IN NINE HOURS! The attack was poorly planned, inadequately kept secret, plaqued by bad luck, and cursed with a lack of support................total Canadian casualties were over 3300 out of a force of 5000.

Did Canada turn tail?

No.

And who today would say we should have abandoned the cause?

We were fighting Hitler! We were fighting against an occupation! We weren't the occupation. We weren't killing innocent locals because we didn't know who the hell has us in their scopes.

Enough with your WW2 justification. I would hear all about the Battle of Britain throughout my whole childhood. My Dad would tell me over and over and over again about how the spitfires saved England. I grew up on all those grainy film reels of the second world war.

But get this...

for the first time in my life, because of Blair and his support for Bush with the war on Iraq, and what has happened with this Iraq War; pushed forward on the international stage by England — my Dad told me he feels a shame he never felt before.

That really chokes me!

Record causalities aren't an indication of our bravery. It's what a soldier faces head on that determines their bravery. That could mean no casualties. It’s the same damn thing.

And then what determines the soldiers virtue is what he is fighting for. On those beaches Hitler presented a clearly defined goal.

We are all over the map in the Middle East. All over the map with religious fractions, tribal fractions, angry villagers, angry neighbouring countries, no defining enemy presented before us... and why? Why? because they want our help to become modern like us?!

They don't give two craps about adopting our culture. Sure they want our luxuries, our security, maybe even a more representational political system. But from one end to the other end it’s BS if you tell me they are in agreement with what the hell they want from us.

Some just want us to get the hell off their land.

We already blew up those training camps. We took out the leadership that gave refuge to Bin Laden, but guess what... everyone else? You ever hear of six degrees of separation?

With that being the reality we are going to end up killing everyone or just getting ourselves killed. This guy was this guy’s brother was this guy’s friend was this guy’s neighbour, etc. etc. etc.

The WW2 analogies piss the hell out of me. It’s totally different!

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

The Defense Minister recently said that right now we can only hope to contain not conquer the Taliban.

This is our Defense Minister!

It kinda sounds like something Harper supporters would jump on if someone here gave this statement. But this is coming from our Defense Minister. In related CTV news, NATO officials are saying the Taliban are gaining momentum. In fact, the word is there might not be enough troops there to really deal with the problem of the Taliban. That the Taliban seems to be getting significant local support.

And then there are other NATO officials saying that perhaps this isn’t altogether a military solution. That some different approaches may be needed.

So is this why Harper is so silent? Keeping a distance from something he’s so strongly preached on us?

I’ve cared about our troops and our country from the very beginning. I’ve cared about our troops and this country not just with my heart, but with my head. We want the best possibly reality for our troops, and for our country, and of course for our planet. However, we have to be as much a realist as we are an idealist or else the equation might just not add up to our hopes.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060907.wnato0907/BNStory/International/home

 

[Colpy]

The entire debate seems to hinge on why we are in Afghanistan.

As i have said before, if we succeed in keeping Afghanistan out of the hands of the Taliban, the mission will be a success. If we stabilize Afghanistan, it would be a miracle.

Yes, we occupy Afghanistan. WE WERE ATTACKED! People keep conveniently forgetting that. More people died at the WTC than at Pearl Harbour. The USA is our ally, and we needed to step in to help.

Leave Afghanistan now, and the Taliban take over. A Taliban that REALLY hates Canada now, whether we were right or wrong in going there. Guess what happens then?

My comparison was of the sacrifices we were willing to make at that time, and how unwilling we are to defend ourselves now in a comparative sense.

Good Lord, do you think the Taliban are decent folk? They are not.

Record causalities aren't an indication of our bravery. It's what a soldier faces head on that determines their bravery. That could mean no casualties. It’s the same damn thing.

As an indivuidual, yes. As a nation, the test is staying the course in the face of casualties.

And then what determines the soldiers virtue is what he is fighting for. On those beaches Hitler presented a clearly defined goal.

True, but times change, as do tactics, and geo-political considerations.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

Yes, we occupy Afghanistan. WE WERE ATTACKED! People keep conveniently forgetting that. More people died at the WTC than at Pearl Harbour. The USA is our ally, and we needed to step in to help.

I didn't see us occupying Japan.

 

[Jay]

You didn't or your not that old?

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

You didn't or your not that old?

It was a quick turnover when it was over. Not this occupation BS.

...

"or your not that old?" — I don't even know what the hell that was suppose to mean towards me. I've already heard peoples ages thrown around here somewhere but I do remember that I 'am older' than you if we are simply going on that.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Canada should pull its troops out of Afghanistan

Al Qaeda attacked the US. They are not a country. The Taliban took it on the chin because they allowed Al Qaeda to operate in their borders. Back then Al Qaeda was nothing compared to what it is now.

WE have ballooned the organization. WE keep giving people who would not have turned to Al Qaeda a ‘cause’ to search out any organization that will do to us what we are doing to some of the innocent lives back over there!

Afghanistan did not attack us. It was Al Qaeda that attacked. An organization is not a nation.

Tell me, how many people fought against the USA on US soil as to 911? What was it? I can’t remember clearly without looking it up. 12 people? 13 people? Thirteen people attacking Americans on American territory? How about the backers? A few camp sites during the time it all happened? Since blown away with the bombing campaigns? Those Saudi backers don't count. They are Americans friends after all.

But we haven’t stopped at Al Qaeda. The Americans blow up cities, towns, villages. Send bombs on everyone else who couldn’t have given two craps about us. Wouldn’t have given two craps about attacking us. Left them with broken homes, dead family members, and a wasted future.

Now they sure as hell do have a reason to fight back!

We didn’t defeat Japan to turn that country into an Afghanistan occupation. And I’ve never understand why the hell they took those FBI agents off those terrorist. What was it? 12? Thirteen that pulled all that off? Or why the hell they handed out medals to all those idiots that dropped the ball with all the warnings and the sleeve tugging to give them the warnings.

Terrorism is a domestic law enforcement issue. We don’t have our military kicking down the doors of Canadians to catch the terrorist. That is law enforcement all the way.

I’ll tell you right now. It’s not the fear of some Afghan that I have coming over to the city and blowing people up. Nor am I worried that the Afghans are going to start flying planes over Canada dropping bombs, or that they are going to be shooting missiles into our homes.

No, I worry about these politicians that we prop up shooting their mouths off and putting out policies that inflame people, and using our military for occupations and quagmires. Then I worry about the Canadian who turns from a moderate to a radical because he can’t take the BS hypocrisy anymore and viola we make our own terrorist.

That is the garbage in garbage out that WE have created.