Canada-China Crisis

Twin_Moose

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Apr 17, 2017
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John Ivison: Beijing gets a helping hand from Liberals and their willing accomplices

Garnett Genuis, the young Edmonton area Conservative MP, offered a fiery little speech that deserved a larger audience than the one offered by the near empty chamber.
He talked about how people in Hong Kong love freedom “with an electrifying and inspiring passion”.
The measures proposed by Beijing would sweep away even the pretence of democracy that currently exists, he said.
“The Canadian government thus far has lacked the strength and moral clarity that is needed. Our foreign affairs minister chose to take a wait-and-see approach, while the prime minister simply called for a de-escalation of tensions and genuine dialogue. It is disgraceful that we have such a mealy-mouthed response from the government on a clear cut moral issues… One wonders if after reading about the American civil rights movement, the prime minister reflected that what was really needed was just a de-escalation of tensions,” he said.

Kevin Lamoureux, the Liberal MP who is as ubiquitous in the House as blackflies in his native Winnipeg, questioned why Genuis wanted to bring up Hong Kong when the House was busy extending its current suspension for another four months, in favour of the special committee on COVID that has been meeting three times a week.
“We are fighting an epidemic,” Lamoureux said.
Genuis could barely contain himself. “That is a bizarre and disgraceful intervention,” he said. “His insinuation is that we should not be talking about what is happening in Hong Kong right now… I think Canadians want our Parliament to be active and engaged with all the issues, including the attempt by authoritarian powers all over the world to use and abuse the coronavirus as an excuse to abuse fundamental human rights.”
The race should go to the swift and the argument to the eloquent but it doesn’t work like that when back-room deals have been struck.
The Liberals want to close down Parliament, in favour of the special committee, which by definition confines itself to scrutinizing the response to COVID. The NDP is backing the Liberal plan, in exchange for the government’s pledge to work with the provinces on a new program for guaranteed sick leave.
Thus, when the motion on the Canada-China committee went to a vote, 24 Liberals, four New Democrat MPs and one Green member voted it down.
NDP officials said the Conservatives brought forward an amendment without consulting anyone and the party remains open to calling back the committee in the future. But they had their chance and they blew it. Good luck to them next election when they look to get any credit for the concessions they’ve wrung from the Liberals.
Jagmeet Singh’s predecessor, David Lewis, played a similar game with the current prime minister’s father between 1972 and 1974. In the event, Lewis got the blame for the bad things the Trudeau government did and none of the credit for the good things. He lost half of his caucus at the next election.
Quashing the Canada-China committee means Parliament will not debate events as they unfold in Hong Kong.
Xi Jinping must love it when a plan comes together.
 

Twin_Moose

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Today's court decision on Meng Wanzhou's extradition could rattle the Canada-China relationship

No matter how the ruling goes today in the case of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou, it will have an impact on the fraught relationship between Canada and China.
A B.C. court is expected to issue a ruling today on the question of so-called "double criminality" in Meng's extradition case — whether what Meng is accused of in the United States would be a crime in Canada. The judge could end up ruling in her favour, although Canada could appeal.
Tuesday, China's foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian issued a warning to Canada in his daily news conference.

"China's position on the Meng Wanzhou case is consistent and clear," he said. "The U.S. and Canada abused their bilateral extradition treaty and arbitrarily took compulsory measures against a Chinese citizen without cause. This is entirely a serious political incident that grossly violates the legitimate rights and interests of the Chinese citizen."

Zhao — who has used his Twitter account to promote a conspiracy theory claiming that a visiting U.S. military sports team deliberately released the novel coronavirus in China — continued:
"The Canadian side should immediately correct its mistake, release Ms. Meng and ensure her safe return to China at an early date so as to avoid any continuous harm to China-Canada relations."
Optimism in party circles
The Global Times, the English-language mouthpiece of the Chinese Communist Party, wrote this week that "legal experts are cautiously optimistic" and say that "Meng is 'highly likely' to be freed from a purely legal perspective if Canada truly has the judicial system completely independent from any political influence, as it always boasts."
Lynette Ong, director of China initiatives at the University of Toronto's Munk School, said Chinese officials seem genuinely to believe that the facts of the case, and Canadian law, favour Meng.
"I think they are expecting a favourable outcome," she told CBC News. "I think that would be seen as a rightful and fair decision" in Beijing, rather than just a capitulation to Chinese pressure, because Meng's lawyers have done a good job of raising doubts about the federal Department of Justice's claim that Meng violated Canadian laws, she added.
On the other hand, Ong said, a ruling against Meng would be sure to renew Chinese allegations that Canada's courts are not independent.
"Put it this way — no court in China is independent of the government. Therefore, the dominant mindset is that the Canadian courts are not independent either, not independent of the Canadian government and also not independent of the U.S. government," she said.
Prominent Chinese academic and dissident Xiao Qiang agrees. "They see everything as politics, rather than an independent judicial system."
Xiao Qiang is director of the Counter-Power Lab at UC Berkeley, which studies censorship, disinformation and propaganda with a strong focus on China.
"If the result is what China's government welcomes, then they will interpret it as their pressure on Canada worked. If the result is not what China wanted, then they will see that as the Canadian government not giving them what they want."
Reciprocity not guaranteed
The Chinese side may be optimistic, but any Canadian hoping that a favourable decision in the Meng case might lead China to quickly release Canadian detainees Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor would have found little to celebrate in Zhao's statement yesterday.
"They were involved in activities endangering China's national security," Zhao said in his statement. "In accordance with law, China's judicial authorities have been dealing with the cases independently and ensuring their legal rights. China urges the Canadian side to respect the spirit of the rule of law and China's judicial sovereignty and stop making irresponsible remarks."
Chinese officials have steadfastly refused to acknowledge suggestions that Kovrig and Spavor are, in effect, hostages for Meng. Beijing's representatives — including Ambassador to Canada Cong Peiwu — also have declined to discuss the vast differences in the treatment experienced by Meng and the two Canadians.
Kovrig and Spavor are being held alone in solitary confinement without access to lawyers or family members. Meng, meanwhile, took advantage of her generous bail conditions on Saturday to stage a celebratory photo shoot outside the B.C. Supreme Court.
Quid pro quo ... or no?
Beijing has insisted that the two Canadians were arrested on legitimate national security grounds, and repeatedly denied they were being held in retaliation for Meng.
China has been censured by several other countries over the case, including the U.S., U.K., Germany and Australia.
Xiao Qiang says it would now be difficult for Beijing to follow Meng's release with a swift liberation of Kovrig and Spavor without conceding that they were, after all, just bargaining chips.
"For that reason China may not release them."
China likely would want something like Richard Nixon's "decent interval" to pass before engaging in such a naked transaction.
Ong said the next steps China takes will be determined partly by the groundwork Canadian diplomats in Beijing have done to prepare for today's ruling.
"If Meng walks free, the two Michaels need to be released, they need to make sure that end of the bargain is fulfilled too," she said.
"I don't know what Ottawa is doing, but they really should be talking to their Beijing counterparts to discuss different scenarios of this case, and the implications for the fate of the two Michaels. I hope they are doing that."
CBC News put that question to Global Affairs Canada. Spokesman Adam Austen responded: "While we cannot comment on a matter before the courts, we are closely following the extradition case of Meng Wanzhou currently in its judicial phase.
"When it comes to China, our top priority continues to be securing the release of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor and calling for clemency for Canadians facing the death penalty in China, including Robert Schellenberg. We will continue to advocate on their behalf."
Pandemic politics
China's authoritarian government has been acting lately like an organization that knows it is living through a pivotal moment in its history. It has seen both danger and opportunity in the COVID-19 pandemic and has moved forcefully to forestall the former (as demonstrated by its PPE diplomacy around the world) and seize the latter — in Hong Kong, where it has proposed new national security laws that many see as an attempt to crush Hong Kong's autonomy.
But the party has never lost sight of the Meng case.
Lately, Beijing has made a modest effort at mending fences with Canada as part of its attempt to bend the narrative of COVID-19 to one of international collaboration.
"China and Canada have been cooperating in the anti-epidemic fight," opined the Global Times in its editorial Tuesday, "and are also cooperating on developing COVID-19 medicines and vaccines ... In February, when China was hit hard by the virus, the Trudeau government provided 16 tons of anti-virus supplies. Later in March, the Bank of China returned the favour ...
"Moreover, Canada has been keeping a rational attitude toward the U.S.'s well-calculated campaign of 'holding China accountable' for the COVID-19 pandemic," it said...….More

What is CBC trying to prepare Canadian's for?
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
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She did sweet F.A. as did Huawai.
It just means that China will put up a bigger better Google.
Its too late!!!
China go 6G
WARNING!!
Long Post-Dullards exit immediately!

"After booting up 5G networks across 50 cities early this month and ahead of its initial deployment deadline, China officially set its sights on 6G innovation. The Ministry of Science and Technology unveiled plans last week to launch a nationally coordinated research effort specifically focused on developing 6G technology.
Science- and policy-based experts spoke to Nextgov about what the sixth generation of mobile technology is and entails, as well as what federal leaders should take away from the announcement, as they work to advance the United States’ cellular landscape.
“I saw [the announcement] largely as typical Chinese exaggeration,” James Lewis, senior vice president and director of the Technology Policy Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said. “Part of it is that the Chinese are playing to a domestic audience that has to hear that the party, all-seeing and wise, is keeping them up with the Joneses. This is telephone envy by the Chinese. I don’t take it that seriously.”
Though 5G deployment is still in its infancy and most mobile users continue to operate on 4G networks, the country announced plans Thursday to launch two separate working groups that are specifically focused on advancing 6G. One group will be composed of relevant government departments, with the intent of promoting the development and implementation of 6G, while the other will be made up of people representing 37 universities, research institutes and enterprises, who will provide advice and insights on the technicalities of 6G deployment. It’s also important to note that while China may be one of the first countries to deploy a massive 5G system, it’s received international scrutiny in much of its efforts. "
BEWARE: THERE IS MORE INFORMATION.!!!
People with poor reading or concentration capabilities, pleas do not read, as your head may explode.
https://www.nextgov.com/emerging-tech/2019/11/china-said-its-developing-6g-what-does-mean/161225/




Just because you supply lots of BULLSH+T - that does NOT MEAN more is better BULLSH+T!


Red China is retaliating for EXACTLY the same reason Adolf Hitler ordered the destruction of Guernica in Spain



and Rotterdam in Holland by fire bombing!



Those who DEFY the dictators will be punished!


This DOES NOT MEAN that defying dictators is WRONG!



It just means there is a price to be paid for preserving freedom!


As the hard pressed people of Hong Kong can attest!
 

Ocean Breeze

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Why is Canada Soft ? Why are we Easy ?
CDA is caught in between two powerful nations CDa has to be very careful how it handles this mess. It is not time to see things in terms of weakness / strength.......but time to focus on the legalistic. The politics around this are volatile......but must not be the focus. China respects strength as in legal and intelligent handling. CDA has to keep focused ,and not get catgut up on the BS surrounding all this. China is going to get nasty.........but They cannot change our laws.........
We also must not react to them....stick to the law, and not get emotional. Nothing like being caught between the tyranny of China.....and the insanity of Trump. Both are nasty , but master manipulators. and have no humanity as power is all to both of them.
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
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http://globalnews.ca/news/6968640/justin-trudeau-china-meng-wanzhou/
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says he is not surprised to see that China‘s ambassador directly linked the country’s arbitrary detention of two Canadians with the legal arrest of Huawei CFO Meng Wanzhou in a recent interview with Global News.



During a daily media briefing at Rideau Cottage, Trudeau was asked by the executive producer of Global’s The West Block about a recent interview on the program in which Chinese ambassador Cong Peiwu denied the country’s detention of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor is a case of hostage taking.



Cong then proceeded to directly raise the Meng case.

“We have seen Chinese officials linking those two cases from the very beginning,” Trudeau said when asked about that direct linkage.

Canada has an independent judicial system that functions without interference or override by politicians … China doesn’t work quite the same way and doesn’t seem to understand that we do have an independent judiciary from political interference.”

Canadian authorities arrested Meng in December 2018 at the behest of American authorities, who are seeking her extradition on charges of skirting sanctions on Iran and stealing corporate secrets.

Days after Meng’s arrest, China detained Kovrig and Spavor.



The regime has since charged them with endangering national security but has denied them access to lawyers and recently cut off their access to consular visits, which they claim is because of the pandemic.

Meng, in contrast, is out on bail and living in her Vancouver mansion.



“There’s nothing like hostage taking. Those two Canadians are engaged in suspected crimes of endangering Chinese national security, so the competent Chinese authorities are handling the case according to law and I would like to tell you they are in good physical condition,” said Cong when asked about the fate of the two Michaels by The West Block‘s Mercedes Stephenson.

He then raised the case of Meng.

“But I would like to take this opportunity to point out that actually the biggest issue in our bilateral relationship is still Meng Wanzhou’s case, so that’s why we have made our position very clear to make sure that she’s back in China smoothly and safely.”

He refused to answer when asked twice why Kovrig and Spavor have not been allowed video consular calls, something Canadian officials have requested.

“Madam Meng should not be detained in Vancouver in the first place and the further two Canadian citizens, we are making sure that they receive all the treatments in accordance with law,” Cong said, adding that they and other detainees have been given “better food” to improve immunity.



“I think that my point is very clear. We want to make sure that the safety and health of those detainees are protected so as long as the situation gets better, we will resume these consular visits.”





Australia has INSISTED that there must be a public inquiry into the Wuhan Pestilence Mess!


And China has rfespondeed by BANNING various Australian imports such as Beef and Barley


in exactly the same way they banned imports of Cdn Pork and Cannola oil in response to the ARREST



of Huawei CEO MENG!


In the weeks IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Chines ban on Cdn Pork was implemented - MSN.CA web page started to display images



of Chinese restaurant patrons EATING WUHAN FRUIT BATS - which ARE BEING BLAMED for causing the Wuhan Pestilence


that is ravaging the planet!


Beijing Butchers banned Cdn Pork and accidentally UNLEASHED WUHAN VIRUS!


If the Beijing Butchers actually go ahead with the Australian Beef Ban - then Chinese will have NO CHOICE


but to shop at the filthy, disease ridden Wet Markets which have ALREADY PRODUCED SARS.Bird Flu, Swine Flu



AND WUHAN VIRUS!



GOD PROTECT US from whatever CRAP the Beijing Butchers will infect the world with if they stop eating Australian Beef!
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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'It just doesn't process': China refuses to believe Canada's legal system is independent, experts say

Daphne Bramham: With China threatening, what's next for Canada-China relations following Meng decision?
China might not "believe" that CDA legal system is independent because it does not suit the China narrative at the moment. Like anyone can really believe anything they say.(Think
the Virus that launched itself there).......they are flexing their power muscles.....and we can expect more of that. Their almost royalty......is in a negative spotlight and that is embarrassing. China does not do embarrassment all that well. Compared to how the two Michael are being treated in China..... she is living in luxury.
 

Ron in Regina

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Apr 9, 2008
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China might not "believe" that CDA legal system is independent because it does not suit the China narrative at the moment. Like anyone can really believe anything they say.(Think
the Virus that launched itself there).......they are flexing their power muscles.....and we can expect more of that. Their almost royalty......is in a negative spotlight and that is embarrassing. China does not do embarrassment all that well. Compared to how the two Michael are being treated in China..... she is living in luxury.


China is an Elephant in the room...not just a Gorilla. Its population is huge. Its Economy is huge. It's a Bully and it's use to getting it's way. We should have stuffed Meng Wanzhou in the trunk of a car the day she was arrested back in December of 2018 and popped the lid at the border and pushed her into the arms of US Officials within three hours max of her planes wheels touching the ground. I've said this since day one. Spilled milk now.



Canada has zero credibility in this issue between Justin and the whole SNC Lavalin Goat-Rodeo with Shenanigans surrounding his lies to the public and gagging (then throwing under the bus) of Wilson Raybould....and then claiming it was all over the 3000 jobs in Quebec while throwing Western Canada under the bus for 150,000-200,000 jobs at the same time, then the repeated Blackface episodes where Justin couldn't remember how many times he'd used his shoe polish for bronzer while stuffing a banana down his pantz's...while freakishly mishandling the Mark Norman affair....while claiming Canada is a country governed by the rule of law without political interference. It's not like the world wasn't watching (including China) as Canada's reputation was ****ed into a hole. Add to this Trump tweeting within less than two weeks of the Meng Wanzhou arrest that he'd trade her for better trade recognition between China & the US. As outlandish as what China is claiming....it's backed up between the actions of Trump & Trudeau Jr.

The Little Potato has little credibility outside of his minority liberal party in Canada, & Zero credibility on the world stage. Nice hair, weird socks, fluent in French (not so much in English), and that's about it. As much of a Bully as China is...it's politically astute. It's not an accident that the first thing China retaliated with towards Canada was a Canola ban. They (unlike even some members of this board) can clearly see Western Canadian Alienation in Canada that Ottawa only plays lip service to when they targeted Canola to stick a knife into Canada.



China, like the US, is a Superpower. Canada is going to be an example China makes to other countries about stepping on its toes. Justin Trudeau isn't the person we need to lead us through this. It's going to be ugly. Parliament is tied up until September 2020 due to Jagnut's Side-Deal with Justin, but we need him out on a Non-Confidence Vote (assuming Parliament gets back to sitting anytime in the near future) and we need a real Leader in place to take Canada through the next decade of ugly debt and recession and Chinese retaliation that we're going to be facing.





 

Hoid

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Oct 15, 2017
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We should extradite this Chinese woman to America to face the charges.

It's too bad about these Canadians in China and we should use whatever legal means we have to bring about their safe return - but we can't allow the Chinese to blackmail us.
 

Twin_Moose

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Apr 17, 2017
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We should extradite this Chinese woman to America to face the charges.
It's too bad about these Canadians in China and we should use whatever legal means we have to bring about their safe return - but we can't allow the Chinese to blackmail us.

When does the extradition hearing resume, after she sidetracked it with the unlawful detention motion?
 

Ocean Breeze

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China says Kovrig, Spavor may be freed if Canada ends Meng Wanzhou case
"may be" freed. Right. The Chinese want to negotiate from a potion of strength........and preserve THEIR dignity. Meng did not help herself with her motion......... as it has the flavor of revenge & distraction,& manipulation. There is no leadership in the US at the moment......so that does not help the situation much.
 
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Twin_Moose

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Apr 17, 2017
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I was with you until you drug Trump into it

Leadership has nothing to do with person of interest agreement hammered out years and years ago by many nations not just Canada and the USA