Boy shot neo-Nazi father as he slept

Machjo

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Maybe the S.O.B. needed shooting!

Or maybe he'd just slaped his child earlier in the day because the kid broke his dad's computer? How do we define abuse here? Just because he was a neo-Nazi does not automatically mean he'd beat his child black and blue.
 

gopher

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''Just because he was a neo-Nazi does not automatically mean he'd beat his child black and blue.''

Neo-Nazis have done that to innocents on the street. They always say violence is the final solution to all of their imagined problems. Thus, what happened here may well have been deserved as the father undoubtedly taught his son that violence was a good thing. I'm sure there was a better solution. But obviously the father did not teach that to his kid. Now he paid for his failings as a father.
 

JLM

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Or maybe he'd just slaped his child earlier in the day because the kid broke his dad's computer? How do we define abuse here? Just because he was a neo-Nazi does not automatically mean he'd beat his child black and blue.

I suppose the odd kid is born mean, but most of them aren't, more than likely just reflect the way they are treated. Kids and dogs have a lot in common!
 

PoliticalNick

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I would still place a limit on this. While we can debate a reasonable age, I'd say past a certain age, say 15 or so, then I would certainly have held him to account, figuring by then he would have been old enough to think more critically, have been more exposed to an education system that most certainly would have introduced him by then to the idea of human rights, police and other services that could help, and even turning to teachers for help.

But yes, for a 10 year old, I can definitely make an exception no problem.

What point? Self-defense? Maybe. Bear in mind though that regardless what kind of abuse the child may have received (for all we know we're talking about common tough love), the child will likely be affected by this for awhile.
Would that be common tough love on the mother too? Did you read the story completely?
 

Machjo

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''Just because he was a neo-Nazi does not automatically mean he'd beat his child black and blue.''

Neo-Nazis have done that to innocents on the street. They always say violence is the final solution to all of their imagined problems. Thus, what happened here may well have been deserved as the father undoubtedly taught his son that violence was a good thing. I'm sure there was a better solution. But obviously the father did not teach that to his kid. Now he paid for his failings as a father.

As mentioned before, I won't hold a 10 year old responsible for this act.

But we are making assumptions here. First off, what is meant by 'abuse'. Maybe he did beat the kid black and blue. Also, what do we mean by neo-Nazi. What if he believed in it but never actually broke the law and jsut had a regular job. We don't know. Being a neo-nazi is not a crime last I checked. Only actions can be crimes, not states of being or simple belief.

Would that be common tough love on the mother too? Did you read the story completely?

Yes, it says the child was tired of his father beating him and his mother. Now I'm guessing he likely means it like he says it, that his father actually beat him and his mother. However, that still doesn't answer to the degree of the beating: slapping or bone-breaking, or something in between?

Now I agree that no beating is acceptable, and it's really a moot point seeing that even if we should find that the beatings were mild, I would still not hold a 10 year old accountable for murder.
 

gopher

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Being a neo-nazi is not a crime

No one here said that it is. But you have to naive like hell to pretend these people do not preach violence. And as we all know, violence begets violence. He no doubt taught that to his kid and is now paying the price for his teaching.
 

Machjo

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No one here said that it is. But you have to naive like hell to pretend these people do not preach violence. And as we all know, violence begets violence. He no doubt taught that to his kid and is now paying the price for his teaching.

I never said he never taught his kid violence. I said he may or may not have committed a crime. From the article I get that the investigation is still ongoing. After all, the kid is undergoing a psych evaluation. Now teaching a child violence, depending on how we understand the term, cuold be a crime. Is teaching him how to use a gun teaching him violence? Some woudl say yes, some no. It's very open to debate here. But again, the investigation is still ongoing, and regardless of the outcome, the 10 year old will not be charged with murder because he's too young anyway.
 

gopher

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I never said he never taught his kid violence.
Let's take a look at what these hate filled Nazis have been saying:

''National Socialists and are sick of Mexican "narco terrorists" crossing the border into their state. In the past, Ready has said that he supports the installation of a minefield to keep illegal immigrants out. And in 2007, on the New Saxon web forum that serves as "An Online Community for Whites, by Whites," Ready wrote:
The truth is that negroids screw monkeys and rape babies in afreaka [sic]. Then stupid white man who licks kosher jew rear lets negroids in. … Stop Negroid immigration and integration now!!! Nature will take care of the rest."
... what does J.T. Ready say he and his pals will do if they see Mexicans trying to cross illegally into Arizona? "We'll Kill Them."

Neo Nazi Leads Vigilante Arizona Border Patrol: 'We'll Kill Them'


This is what neo-nazis have said on the record.

This thread's original article shows that the errant father [sic] took his step son to these rallies where all that hate is spewed. This is where and how he learned his behavior.
 

Machjo

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Goober, did you know there are pro-Isralis Nazis out there? There are in fact various neo-Nazi groups out there. I can't imagine a single one of them being palatable. But that doesnt' change the fact that some might be more talk than action. From the article in the OP, we know little about this particular guy.

Again, taking him to rallies and teaching him hate is wrong, but there is no evidence from the OP that he actually when out and lynched anyone. He may have, but that is not indicated in the OP.
 

gopher

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Goober is not in this exchange. We will be fully apprised of the fact soon. Meantime, it is a good bet that guy would be alive today if he hadn't had weapons at home and not spewed hatred as did his colleagues.
 

Machjo

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Goober is not in this exchange. We will be fully apprised of the fact soon. Meantime, it is a good bet that guy would be alive today if he hadn't had weapons at home and not spewed hatred as did his colleagues.

Sorry Gopher. Your names both start with the letters g and o. :)

But yes, you're right on that front. And eventually maybe a teacher could have found out turned the father in or something. But again, moot point now that he's dead.
 

Unforgiven

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Sorry Gopher. Your names both start with the letters g and o. :)

But yes, you're right on that front. And eventually maybe a teacher could have found out turned the father in or something. But again, moot point now that he's dead.

Just because it's Goober and Gopher doesn't mean you can play the GO GO card mac!

.....which I have always believed should be a legitimate defense in court.

It would be, if juries worked as they were intended to work.......

Strangely enough, the guy, who is for all intents and purposes is a law abiding gun owner got shot with his own improperly stored gun. Justice is served.