BNP- 58 : anti-fascist loons- 0

[Tonington]

There is no distinction between "ethnic" and "civic" There is only born in the UK, or born elsewhere........the definition in most nations.

So the BNP bears NO resemblance to fascism.

Are you daft? I know you have a hate on for immigrants, but clearly a policy that makes a legal distinction between citizens coming from "British, Scottis, Irish and Welsh ethnicities" and those who have gained citizenship from outside the country is nationalistic. If not, then I would love to know what your revisionist definition of nationalism is. Hell their policy manifesto openly states that ethnic minorities are allowed to stay so long as they are always minorities. They state that if elected they would review current citizens to see if they should be allowed to stay. They oppose mixed-race relationships.

WTF Colpy. There is no such definitions in Canada, nor should there be. Remove your head from your @ss.

 

[Machjo]

A fascist government by definition would have to be a dictatorial or totalitarian one, so it's difficult to call the BNP fascist since it is not their policy that, once elected they will banish democracy and assume dictatorial authority. That said, it wasn't the policy, prior ot being elected, of other fascists who were eventually voted into power (edit...) and went on to be dictators.

That said, the BNP has made overtures in the past to Iran and Gaddaffi's Libya--two very authoritarian states--so I would say the probability is that they would tend towards the authoritarian end of things if they ever achieved power. Not to mention the founder of the BNP remarked that "Mein Kampf is my bible" and the current leader is a Holocaust denier. I wouldn't say it's a stretch that Nazi/fascist sympathies run deep.

I actually don't mind the idea of stopping the subjugation of British culture to overwhelming immigrant presence. However, I also think freedom and democracy are the most important things to maintain. Not sure how committed the BNP are to freedom and democracy.

It would not surprise me at all if, in the absence of any real fascist party in the UK, many fascists, Nazis, and neo-Nazis may have parked their votes with the BNP, essentially representing its right wing, with simple nationalists representing its left.

 

[L Gilbert]

http://www.reportingthebnp.org/wp-content/uploads/Mini-Manifesto.pdf

The Nazi Party 25 Points (1920) - document extract

lol No similarities? hhmmm

 

[Goober]

What I find amusing is how many are stuck on the original definition of Fascism - Guess it cannot evolve and drop certain aspects.
So Is China Communist- If so - then why all the capitalists?

 

[Machjo]

Are you daft? I know you have a hate on for immigrants, but clearly a policy that makes a legal distinction between citizens coming from "British, Scottis, Irish and Welsh ethnicities" and those who have gained citizenship from outside the country is nationalistic. If not, then I would love to know what your revisionist definition of nationalism is. Hell their policy manifesto openly states that ethnic minorities are allowed to stay so long as they are always minorities. They state that if elected they would review current citizens to see if they should be allowed to stay. They oppose mixed-race relationships.

WTF Colpy. There is no such definitions in Canada, nor should there be. Remove your head from your @ss.

Do they officially oppose mixed-race relationships? Unofficially, I have no doubts, but officially I don't know, but I would be curious.

 

[Spade]

Expelled BNP founder plans court battle | Politics | The Observer

From the article on John Tyndall, founder of the BNP; quote:
"BNP modernisers said Tyndall was expelled due to his extreme views. Tyndall is on record as saying 'Mein Kampf is my bible'. In 1986 he was sentenced to a year in prison for conspiracy to incite racial hatred. According to the anti-racist organisation Youth Against Racism, Tyndall has said that his vision for Britain is of a country where 'racial laws will be enacted forbidding marriage between Britons and non-Aryans: medical measures will be taken to prevent procreation on the part of all those who have hereditary defects either racial, mental or physical.' "

 

[Colpy]

A fascist government by definition would have to be a dictatorial or totalitarian one, so it's difficult to call the BNP fascist since it is not their policy that, once elected they will banish democracy and assume dictatorial authority. That said, it wasn't the policy, prior ot being elected, of other fascists who were eventually voted into power (edit...) and went on to be dictators.

That said, the BNP has made overtures in the past to Iran and Gaddaffi's Libya--two very authoritarian states--so I would say the probability is that they would tend towards the authoritarian end of things if they ever achieved power. Not to mention the founder of the BNP remarked that "Mein Kampf is my bible" and the current leader is a Holocaust denier. I wouldn't say it's a stretch that Nazi/fascist sympathies run deep.

I actually don't mind the idea of stopping the subjugation of British culture to overwhelming immigrant presence. However, I also think freedom and democracy are the most important things to maintain. Not sure how committed the BNP are to freedom and democracy.

And you are correct.

I was unaware the leader was a "former" holocaust denier.

That in itself is a game changer in my book.

Expelled BNP founder plans court battle | Politics | The Observer

From the article on John Tyndall, founder of the BNP; quote:
"BNP modernisers said Tyndall was expelled due to his extreme views. Tyndall is on record as saying 'Mein Kampf is my bible'. In 1986 he was sentenced to a year in prison for conspiracy to incite racial hatred. According to the anti-racist organisation Youth Against Racism, Tyndall has said that his vision for Britain is of a country where 'racial laws will be enacted forbidding marriage between Britons and non-Aryans: medical measures will be taken to prevent procreation on the part of all those who have hereditary defects either racial, mental or physical.' "

Well, I wouldn't believe Youth Against Racism if they told me water was wet.....but with a Holocaust denier as leader, the Party would certainly not get my vote.

 

[Machjo]

Expelled BNP founder plans court battle | Politics | The Observer

From the article on John Tyndall, founder of the BNP; quote:
"BNP modernisers said Tyndall was expelled due to his extreme views. Tyndall is on record as saying 'Mein Kampf is my bible'. In 1986 he was sentenced to a year in prison for conspiracy to incite racial hatred. According to the anti-racist organisation Youth Against Racism, Tyndall has said that his vision for Britain is of a country where 'racial laws will be enacted forbidding marriage between Britons and non-Aryans: medical measures will be taken to prevent procreation on the part of all those who have hereditary defects either racial, mental or physical.' "

I'm not surprised individual members would hold such views, or that the organization offcially did. To the best of my knowledge (I could be wrong), that is no longer the case officially, though again I'm sure many individual members probably still hold to such views.

 

[Colpy]

Are you daft? I know you have a hate on for immigrants, but clearly a policy that makes a legal distinction between citizens coming from "British, Scottis, Irish and Welsh ethnicities" and those who have gained citizenship from outside the country is nationalistic. If not, then I would love to know what your revisionist definition of nationalism is. Hell their policy manifesto openly states that ethnic minorities are allowed to stay so long as they are always minorities. They state that if elected they would review current citizens to see if they should be allowed to stay. They oppose mixed-race relationships.

WTF Colpy. There is no such definitions in Canada, nor should there be. Remove your head from your @ss.

Really?? If you are born here you can not have your citizenship removed.

Not so if you were born elsewhere.

 

[Machjo]

Going back to the OP though, regardless of whether the BNP or any other organization is fascist or not, anti-fascists are doing themselves and their cause a disservice by turning to illegal violence. In this case, the far-right group wins the PR battle. If I knew little to othing of either group, and just heard in the news that one group started a fight while the other restraied itself, which one am I likely to sympathise with, all else being equal?

 

[Tonington]

Really?? If you are born here you can not have your citizenship removed.

Not so if you were born elsewhere.

Yes, but only if it was obtained fraudulently, or if crucial details were deliberately withheld. Are you really trying to compare that to revoking someone's citizenship because of their ethnicity? :roll:

 

[Goober]

Really?? If you are born here you can not have your citizenship removed.

Not so if you were born elsewhere.

What are Canadian Laws regarding revocation of Citizenship. From what I recall it is nearly impossible. War Criminals are covered but that took decades.
Do you have some links and info on this?
Recall the Palestinian Terrorist- 26 years to deport.

 

[Machjo]

Yes, but only if it was obtained fraudulently, or if crucial details were deliberately withheld. Are you really trying to compare that to revoking someone's citizenship because of their ethnicity? :roll:

I think he just misunderstood, not thinking that we actually meant it when we said the BNP officially makes a distinction between 'ethnic' vs. 'civic' British.

 

[Blackleaf]

Are you daft? I know you have a hate on for immigrants, but clearly a policy that makes a legal distinction between citizens coming from "British, Scottis, Irish and Welsh ethnicities"

What about English?

 

[Machjo]

What about English?

'Let them sing Jerusalem.'

Maybe something marie Antoinette would have said?

 

[L Gilbert]

I may be wrong, but "English" refers to English citizens, "British" refers to English, Scottish, and Welsh citizens, and "UK" refers to N. Ireland and Britain.
And Canadian laws concerning naturalized citizens are irrelevant to all of the above.