Blackwater video, liberating Iraqis???
- Thread starter Tonington
- Start date
To start with I don't like the idea of these private security people working in war zones they
operate without rules that armies are bound by these days. In this particular case I would
say keep driving, this could have been a set up designed to have the vehicles stop for an
ambush.
As for training the same people training Canadian troops I don't like either, we should be
doing our own training not depending on outside states or companies do this work. The
same as I don't like the idea that troops from a foreign country (America) can cross the
boarder to assist as they put it, in emergency cases. I do think good neighbours should
and do cross the boarder for rescue, for fire departments and so on but not police or
military.
operate without rules that armies are bound by these days. In this particular case I would
say keep driving, this could have been a set up designed to have the vehicles stop for an
ambush.
As for training the same people training Canadian troops I don't like either, we should be
doing our own training not depending on outside states or companies do this work. The
same as I don't like the idea that troops from a foreign country (America) can cross the
boarder to assist as they put it, in emergency cases. I do think good neighbours should
and do cross the boarder for rescue, for fire departments and so on but not police or
military.
Good fences make good borders. Sounds like it should be a poem, doesn't it. It sort of suggests we repect the border. And extraterritorial reach is not respect.
I don't know how else to explain to you that just because the video was shot in 2006, does not mean it was made public in 2006. 8O
Not like it should matter to you anyways, it's all been done before right? You must be really boring at parties.
In ES' defence Ton. There are a lot of locals that post this stuff just to smear the US.
I can imagine it would get so tiring that it would be a stretch to say some have been conditioned to just react as he has.
I know you fairly well, and even I wasn't sure about your point.
I have a bud who works there,I asked him one day to get me a job and he asked if I had ever been shot and could I handle getting shot.He does mostly bodyguard stuff and is pretty well a human shield for dignitaries.Some of the stories he told me and vids he sent me from Iraq are wild.
Halliburton ambush - YouTube
How to drive in Iraq
U.S vehicle runs over everything in iraq - YouTube
If this is from 2006 and there have been several name changes (but no instructional changes) how do they drive these days now that the area is secure? Part of the 'winning the hearts and minds program' no doubt. That is just setting the trend for how it will be as long as western developers are in the area.
Ironic that these crews get adulation for doing **** like this when Saddam's forces were never the complete assholes these guys are and they are just as protected from repercussions. lol I love watching a feeding frenzy take place where the ones there aren't even aware it is happening.
Ironic that these crews get adulation for doing **** like this when Saddam's forces were never the complete assholes these guys are and they are just as protected from repercussions. lol I love watching a feeding frenzy take place where the ones there aren't even aware it is happening.
Discretion.
It's a spur of the moment judgement call. People who are trained to see anything ansd anyone as a potential threat tend to see threats when there are none. It biases their judgement. Hence the idea to shoot first and ask later.
Warped sense of judgement on what constitutes a threat I suppose.
Yep. I can to downtown Vancouver using mostly side routes and many times it proves to be faster. Also, if I were targeting the convoy, I'd likely think they would use major routes.
Probably, but the Canadian forces use many sources of training.
lol Speak for yourself.
Well, religion and politics.We should just all tend to our own p's and q's, but we don't, so that's where the trouble starts.
It depends upon what the training is. For instance, would you train under someone that hasn't a clue about jungle tactics or would you train under someone who has experience?
"How do you differentiate a civilian accidentally hit, from a civilian that is willing to step in front of a convoy for tactical reasons?"
She could have checked traffic but the convoy was driving the wrong way down a one-way street. the traffic going their way is on the right and it is backed up. That obviously puts them above the law, that is freedom for the US and their buddies it is not freedom for the locals.
"How do you differentiate a civilian vehicle from a civilian vehicle, whose operator has tactical intension, in a few seconds?"
By the sound of the siren and the flashing lights.
She could have checked traffic but the convoy was driving the wrong way down a one-way street. the traffic going their way is on the right and it is backed up. That obviously puts them above the law, that is freedom for the US and their buddies it is not freedom for the locals.
"How do you differentiate a civilian vehicle from a civilian vehicle, whose operator has tactical intension, in a few seconds?"
By the sound of the siren and the flashing lights.
My buddy told me when they were escorting prisoners or bigwigs they were not allowed to stop,if someone was in front of you they would ram them with the hummer,if someone walked out on the road it was too bad,they would not stop for anything.
After awhile the civilians learned when they saw a US army convoy coming down the road at high speeds with lights and horns going to get the hell out of the way.There used to be a lot more intense videos of escort ambushes on the net but most are pulled from youtube now.
I feel for the one guy though,his truck breaks down and hes taking fire and no one is coming to help him.
I know if it was me in a big hummer and knowing you could die at any second I would do the same thing.
After awhile the civilians learned when they saw a US army convoy coming down the road at high speeds with lights and horns going to get the hell out of the way.There used to be a lot more intense videos of escort ambushes on the net but most are pulled from youtube now.
I feel for the one guy though,his truck breaks down and hes taking fire and no one is coming to help him.
I know if it was me in a big hummer and knowing you could die at any second I would do the same thing.
So a prisoner there gets a hummer escort and in the Gaza Strip Hamas has to put an officer at every exit and run them down the street.
How many times do they go undercover and plant something that goes boom later or are their moral standards much higher than that? Plus the Military charges the taxpayer almost an arm and a leg just to get rid of those morals in something called 'training'. Cheapen it up, build the hardware and sent the kids home with an instruction booklet and a kick-ass simulator version that is on-line, Military 101. Don't study you die should the machine ever really be needed.
I'm not saying elementary aged kids should get target range practice with a 20MM weapon but getting some schooling in how to 'lob' things would be a transferable skill. The rotary version would be the restricted version otherwise it is a one-shot deal most of the time and even the best snipers are reluctant to expose their position to this size, not the thing you would want to lug up and down mountain ranges. In the off season rent it out at a mountain range where the target is across a wide valley, $50 a pop if the reload is supplied. The new plastic one shot casing is the alternative to brass which is a re-loadable round. The one shot can still be tailor maybe in use as far as powder and projectile. Lazar targeting would be nice then a fast round isn't even needed.
How many times do they go undercover and plant something that goes boom later or are their moral standards much higher than that? Plus the Military charges the taxpayer almost an arm and a leg just to get rid of those morals in something called 'training'. Cheapen it up, build the hardware and sent the kids home with an instruction booklet and a kick-ass simulator version that is on-line, Military 101. Don't study you die should the machine ever really be needed.
I'm not saying elementary aged kids should get target range practice with a 20MM weapon but getting some schooling in how to 'lob' things would be a transferable skill. The rotary version would be the restricted version otherwise it is a one-shot deal most of the time and even the best snipers are reluctant to expose their position to this size, not the thing you would want to lug up and down mountain ranges. In the off season rent it out at a mountain range where the target is across a wide valley, $50 a pop if the reload is supplied. The new plastic one shot casing is the alternative to brass which is a re-loadable round. The one shot can still be tailor maybe in use as far as powder and projectile. Lazar targeting would be nice then a fast round isn't even needed.
Blackwater Guards Found Guilty of Massacre in Iraq
More than seven years after guards with the private mercenary company Blackwater opened fire on Iraqi civilians in downtown Baghdad, killing 17 people and wounding 20, a federal jury on Wednesday found four of the men involved with the massacre guilty in the case.
Former guard Nicholas Slatten was handed a guilty verdict for first-degree murder, the Associated Press reports. The other men—Paul Slough, Evan Liberty and Dustin Heard—were all found guilty of voluntary manslaughter.
The men were employed by the U.S. State Department at the time of the massacre at Baghdad’s Nisour Square on September 16, 2007. Their victimes include 9-year-old Ali Kinani—killed by a gun shot to the head. Reported as the largest known massacre of Iraqi civilians by U.S. private contractors, the incident became a flashpoint of outrage over the atrocities that U.S. forces—particularly mercenaries—inflict on occupied civilian populations in Iraq.
The guilty verdicts follow years of legal battles, in which plaintiffs were left unsure of whether the defendants would ever face trial. Seventy-two witnesses were summoned for the trial, including Iraqis victimized by the attack. Though seventeen people were killed, the trial related to the slaughter of 14 Iraqis and wounding of 17.
During his closing argument against the Blackwater guards, federal prosecutor Anthony Asuncion said: “These men took something that did not belong to them: the lives of 14 human beings. They were turned into bloody bullet-riddled corpses at the hands of these men.”
Advocates for the victims welcomed the ruling.
"However," Azmy added, "holding individuals responsible is not enough. If corporations like Blackwater, now known as Academi, are granted the rights accorded to 'people' they must also bear the responsibilities."
Dan Roberts, who has covered the trial closely for the Guardian newspaper, reports from Washington that all the men now "face the likelihood of lengthy prison sentences after unanimous verdicts on separate weapons charges related to the incident."
Scahill, who has written extensively about both Blackwater and the Nisour Square massacre, responded to the verdict at The Intercept by writing, "Just as with the systematic torture at Abu Ghraib, it is only the low level foot-soldiers of Blackwater that are being held accountable." Scahill points out that Blackwater founder and former-CEO Erik Prince and other high-ranking Blackwater executives remain free and that no U.S. officials from the Bush administration were ever held responsible for "creating the conditions for the Nisour Square shootings."
Seven Years Later, Blackwater Guards Found Guilty of Massacre in Iraq | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community
More than seven years after guards with the private mercenary company Blackwater opened fire on Iraqi civilians in downtown Baghdad, killing 17 people and wounding 20, a federal jury on Wednesday found four of the men involved with the massacre guilty in the case.
Former guard Nicholas Slatten was handed a guilty verdict for first-degree murder, the Associated Press reports. The other men—Paul Slough, Evan Liberty and Dustin Heard—were all found guilty of voluntary manslaughter.
The men were employed by the U.S. State Department at the time of the massacre at Baghdad’s Nisour Square on September 16, 2007. Their victimes include 9-year-old Ali Kinani—killed by a gun shot to the head. Reported as the largest known massacre of Iraqi civilians by U.S. private contractors, the incident became a flashpoint of outrage over the atrocities that U.S. forces—particularly mercenaries—inflict on occupied civilian populations in Iraq.
The guilty verdicts follow years of legal battles, in which plaintiffs were left unsure of whether the defendants would ever face trial. Seventy-two witnesses were summoned for the trial, including Iraqis victimized by the attack. Though seventeen people were killed, the trial related to the slaughter of 14 Iraqis and wounding of 17.
During his closing argument against the Blackwater guards, federal prosecutor Anthony Asuncion said: “These men took something that did not belong to them: the lives of 14 human beings. They were turned into bloody bullet-riddled corpses at the hands of these men.”
Advocates for the victims welcomed the ruling.
"However," Azmy added, "holding individuals responsible is not enough. If corporations like Blackwater, now known as Academi, are granted the rights accorded to 'people' they must also bear the responsibilities."
Dan Roberts, who has covered the trial closely for the Guardian newspaper, reports from Washington that all the men now "face the likelihood of lengthy prison sentences after unanimous verdicts on separate weapons charges related to the incident."
Scahill, who has written extensively about both Blackwater and the Nisour Square massacre, responded to the verdict at The Intercept by writing, "Just as with the systematic torture at Abu Ghraib, it is only the low level foot-soldiers of Blackwater that are being held accountable." Scahill points out that Blackwater founder and former-CEO Erik Prince and other high-ranking Blackwater executives remain free and that no U.S. officials from the Bush administration were ever held responsible for "creating the conditions for the Nisour Square shootings."
Seven Years Later, Blackwater Guards Found Guilty of Massacre in Iraq | Common Dreams | Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community
Tempest in a teapot. Blackwater no longer exists. Now our freedom is protected by XE. Totally different.
Former Blackwater guards sentenced for massacre of unarmed Iraqi civilians
Ex-security contractor receives life in prison and three fellow employees sentenced to 30 years each after killing of 14 civilians in 2007
Former Blackwater guards sentenced for massacre of unarmed Iraqi civilians | US news | The Guardian
Three former employees of the US private military contractor once known as Blackwater were sentenced to 30 years in prison on Monday and a fourth received a life sentence, closing a sordid chapter of the Iraq conflict relating to the 2007 Nisour Square massacre in Baghdad.
Judge Royce Lamberth denied a request by the defense for leniency in sentencing on Monday, and, as expected, his sentences followed the 30-year mandatory sentence guidelines for the crimes.
The four, who were part of a tactical support team called “Raven 23”, opened fire on a crowd of unarmed civilians from an armoured convoy with machine-guns and grenade launchers in September 2007.
In October 2014, Paul Slough, Evan Liberty and Dustin Heard were found guilty of 13 charges of voluntary manslaughter and 17 charges of attempted manslaughter, while Nicholas Slatten, the team’s sniper who was the first to open fire, was convicted on a separate charge of first-degree murder.
Slatten was sentenced to life; Slough, Liberty and Heard got 30 years each.
“In killing and maiming unarmed civilians, these defendants acted unreasonably and without justification,” the US attorney’s office said in a statement.
more ....
Ex-security contractor receives life in prison and three fellow employees sentenced to 30 years each after killing of 14 civilians in 2007
Former Blackwater guards sentenced for massacre of unarmed Iraqi civilians | US news | The Guardian
Three former employees of the US private military contractor once known as Blackwater were sentenced to 30 years in prison on Monday and a fourth received a life sentence, closing a sordid chapter of the Iraq conflict relating to the 2007 Nisour Square massacre in Baghdad.
Judge Royce Lamberth denied a request by the defense for leniency in sentencing on Monday, and, as expected, his sentences followed the 30-year mandatory sentence guidelines for the crimes.
The four, who were part of a tactical support team called “Raven 23”, opened fire on a crowd of unarmed civilians from an armoured convoy with machine-guns and grenade launchers in September 2007.
In October 2014, Paul Slough, Evan Liberty and Dustin Heard were found guilty of 13 charges of voluntary manslaughter and 17 charges of attempted manslaughter, while Nicholas Slatten, the team’s sniper who was the first to open fire, was convicted on a separate charge of first-degree murder.
Slatten was sentenced to life; Slough, Liberty and Heard got 30 years each.
“In killing and maiming unarmed civilians, these defendants acted unreasonably and without justification,” the US attorney’s office said in a statement.
more ....