Bill O’Reilly Bets John Stossel $10,000 That Prop 19 Loses

[Unforgiven]

You are actually supporting my post by acknowledging that marijuana is widely used because it is widely available. Marijuana may not be legal, but it is so widespread it has quasi-legal status.

Cannabis has no quasi legal status. Only those with a legal medical prescription are allowed to have it and it is illegal to sell. That it is impossible to enforce the prohibition ban on Cannabis coupled with the federally imposed
blackmarket price is why it is as widely available as it is. Legality of the substance has little to do with it's popularity. Those who enjoy it are going to regardless of the unenforceable penalties and wasted government resources.

However, complete legalization would probably result in even greater use as it would be even more widely available. Simply stated there are many who will not use a drug if it is illegal or hard to obtain.

Not many, few. Only the stiffest of the stiff use a mind altering substance for recreation because of it's legal status. Statistical evidence from Amsterdam shows that when made legal, the percentage of the population that chooses to enjoy Cannabis doesn't change.

Legalization removes that barrier. Currently those who wish to use marijuana have to find a dealer they can trust. Of course, the police are also after the same dealers. One of the results of this is a higher price for the product as well as variation in quality. There are many who might use marijuana who might not use the drug due to its criminal connection and fear that it might not be safe. Start selling the product in the same way tobacco or alcohol is sold and sales will almost certainly increase.

Not true at all. Not even a safe assumption as it's clear that if alcohol and tobacco were sold in high schools like Cannabis is, far more people would be using it. That it is regulated and only those who can prove they are the age of majority, not intoxicated and financially able can buy alcohol. For those who can't seem to find a "dealer" Craig's list is full of them.

I did notice that you did not refute any of the articles and data I supplied dealing with other drugs like alcohol and prescription drugs. These drugs are problems because they are widely used by the bulk of the population and they are widely used because they are legal. I cannot prove it, but I suspect legalization of marijuana in California might have the same result.

I didn't feel that it was worth refuting. Drugs aren't bad because they are used, the only have the potential to be bad if abused. Huge difference but what is the point of wasting a lot of time debating a moot point?

So far as alcohol is concerned we already have one example of what legalization can lead to. In Alberta when the drinking age was 21 most liquor bootlegged to those under age was sold to high school students (Grade 10 and up) and to those members of the population over 18 but under 21.

Seriously? sigh

So now, what age bracket has the largest amount of bootlegged alcohol sold to them? By golly it's those same kids that are just under the legal drinking age. Not to say that all the kids are wasted, but in our culture it is for the most part a right of passage. Good luck legislating that out of existence.

When the drinking age was lowered to 18 one of the effects was to make it available to a younger groups of potential consumers, namely those in junior high (aged 12 to 14). This was due to the fact that prior to lowering the drinking age very few junior high students knew anyone who was 21 or older; however, they did know many students who were 18 as these 18-year-olds often went to nearby high schools or even to combined junior-senior highs.

Yeah because someone who is 19 is far more responsible than someone who is 18 and would never consider bootlegging a case of beer for the well advertised weekend bush party. Is the sarcasm too subtle?

The conclusion seems quite clear - make a drug more widely available and more people will use it. Make it legal and you really increase its availability.

Heroin and Cannabis are not at all the same drug nor the same class of drug. Those who use Heroin most likely use Cannabis, but those who use Cannabis rarely if ever try Heroin. Those who become a regular user of Heroin, even a smaller percentage. So the generalization is going to fail from the start when you debate anyone with even a slight understanding of illegal drugs.

Accept that you can't legislate personal choice. Put resources and effort into harm reduction, awareness and rehabilitate those who have fallen into addiction.

Everyone keeps saying we won't know what will happen if all becomes legal.
That is not so, there will be an initial rush and then it will balance itself just as
booze did.

I am not so sure of that. I submit that any increase will be nothing more than those who already enjoy Cannabis, doing so more openly rather than a rush to do something they don't usually do.

 

[Tonington]

O'Reilly wins, they won by 500,000 votes, 53.9% no to 46.1% yes.

 

[mentalfloss]

Yup. And looks like the GOP are taking over as well. It might be time to get the hell out of the country if your a Libertarian.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Cannabis has no quasi legal status. Only those with a legal medical prescription are allowed to have it and it is illegal to sell. That it is impossible to enforce the prohibition ban on Cannabis coupled with the federally imposed
blackmarket price is why it is as widely available as it is. Legality of the substance has little to do with it's popularity. Those who enjoy it are going to regardless of the unenforceable penalties and wasted government resources.

Not many, few. Only the stiffest of the stiff use a mind altering substance for recreation because of it's legal status. Statistical evidence from Amsterdam shows that when made legal, the percentage of the population that chooses to enjoy Cannabis doesn't change.



Not true at all. Not even a safe assumption as it's clear that if alcohol and tobacco were sold in high schools like Cannabis is, far more people would be using it. That it is regulated and only those who can prove they are the age of majority, not intoxicated and financially able can buy alcohol. For those who can't seem to find a "dealer" Craig's list is full of them.



I didn't feel that it was worth refuting. Drugs aren't bad because they are used, the only have the potential to be bad if abused. Huge difference but what is the point of wasting a lot of time debating a moot point?



Seriously? sigh

So now, what age bracket has the largest amount of bootlegged alcohol sold to them? By golly it's those same kids that are just under the legal drinking age. Not to say that all the kids are wasted, but in our culture it is for the most part a right of passage. Good luck legislating that out of existence.



Yeah because someone who is 19 is far more responsible than someone who is 18 and would never consider bootlegging a case of beer for the well advertised weekend bush party. Is the sarcasm too subtle?



Heroin and Cannabis are not at all the same drug nor the same class of drug. Those who use Heroin most likely use Cannabis, but those who use Cannabis rarely if ever try Heroin. Those who become a regular user of Heroin, even a smaller percentage. So the generalization is going to fail from the start when you debate anyone with even a slight understanding of illegal drugs.

Accept that you can't legislate personal choice. Put resources and effort into harm reduction, awareness and rehabilitate those who have fallen into addiction.



I am not so sure of that. I submit that any increase will be nothing more than those who already enjoy Cannabis, doing so more openly rather than a rush to do something they don't usually do.

Your interpretation of statistics is somewhat selective and ignores several points. For example your claim that marijuana use in the Netherlands has not changed it ignores the fact that many residents of other countries enter to Netherlands in order to use illicit drugs. It is a problem that has many Dutch backing a return to more restrictive laws.

In addition you tend to downplay any facts that disagree with your position. The fact that many junior high students now use alcohol is a problem. The fact that you don't care about it is irrelevant. And where did you get the 19 age from? The age was 21.

I stand by what I said. Legalize any drug or make it more easily available and it will likely become more widely used. You have provided no evidence that will not happen.

In any case it appears we are discussing a moot point as California voted against legalization.