Bibi is back

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
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I'm pro-Israel, if by that you mean I agree with Israel's right to exist within secure borders and determine its own politics.

Not real happy with some of the things Israel does.

Same's true of any country.

Yes indeed! I don't like what Canada or the U.S. does sometimes as well. You're absolutely correct in stating that all countries have their issues.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,074
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Regina, Saskatchewan
All it would take is for Palestine to knock off its bullshit and the peace could begin. But as long as Palestine refuses to renounce their war of extermination against Israel, Isael has absolutely zero reason to play ball.
Perhaps previously, this would’ve worked, but too much water, and blood, and Iran under the bridge at this point.
After the various wars with Israel the Arab muslim countries lost some territory.
Kind’a common in these sorta things. The attackers when they lose usually don’t gain territory. Following the Six-Day War, Israel traded two hostile neighbouring states, Egypt and Jordan (which it has since made peace with), for a hostile population that has only become more radicalized over time.
After it was returned to Jordan and Egypt, they both settled the fuck down with their aggressive crap towards Israel.
Peace offering of magnitude, following the “F*ck Around & Find Out” war of 1967.
Israel has done the same with Palestine. Problem is as soon as the Palestinians get it back, they launch attacks against Israel from it.
No, Jin, that's not 'all it would take', not anymore.

NEITHER side wants peace at this point. Not Israel, not Palestine. Neither side.
Or the Security that Peace would bring, or is that Peace that Security would bring for both sides? Perhaps that’s more apt.
The phrase - knife to a gun fight - comes to mind whenever I hear this. Only the Palestinians have rocks vs. guns and body armor, or, yes, grenades, suicide bombs, bombs, vs. air strikes and missiles...
The Palestinians also have missiles, generational hatred of “The Jews,” the rest of the Middle East either supporting them or not wanting to be seen as supporting “The Jews,” the UN, etc…all on their side.
Winning isn't likely for Palestine and they know it.
Define winning? Gaining territory through another failed attack on their neighbour?

Leaders of the United States, United Kingdom and European Union have been pressing Israel (but not Palestinians) to work toward a lasting peace that would see the creation of an independent Palestinian state, yet this “seems” to have been rejected by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Although White House officials expressed hope that a compromise could be reached, and Netanyahu did not explicitly reject the idea of a demilitarized Palestinian state or a two-state solution that came with security guarantees for Israel, the prime minister doubled down on Sunday, saying, “I will not compromise on full Israeli security control over all the territory west of the Jordan,” and boasting about his record of opposing Palestinian statehood.

As the leader of a country that is treated like a pariah by the international community no matter what it does, it makes sense that Netanyahu would be more concerned about his own political survival. And his comments were undoubtedly intended for a domestic audience, particularly his hard-right coalition partners, who were angry about Israel’s 2005 withdrawal from Gaza even before the Oct. 7 massacre.

It’s not just Netanyahu’s right-wing political partners who oppose a two-state solution. It’s a view held by a majority (65 per cent, according to a December Gallup poll) of Israelis, who have good reason to be wary of an independent Palestinian state, given that their withdrawal from Gaza led to its takeover by a genocidal terrorist organization, while development aid from Qatar and work permits for Palestinians allowed Hamas to purchase weapons and collect intelligence used to conduct its pogrom.

At the same time, Israelis see a weakened Palestinian Authority and high support for Hamas’s wanton slaughter of innocent civilians. A November poll found that three-quarters of Palestinians were in favour of the Oct. 7 massacre. Hamas itself is supported by nearly 60 per cent of Gazans and 88 per cent of West Bank Palestinians. Other terror groups, such as Islamic Jihad, have poll numbers that would make Kim Jong Un blush.

Unless Israel could be assured that mechanisms were in place to prevent a terrorist organization from taking control of an eventual Palestinian state, a two-state solution will not be viable. And such a guarantee would preclude the possibility of establishing a democratic state, at least for the foreseeable future, as Palestinian politics is dominated by jihadists.

Hamas, it should be remembered, took control of Gaza after winning legislative elections in 2006, and still has high poll numbers despite doing its utmost to keep its people impoverished and in an indefinite state of war.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas was also elected, back in 2005, but since installed himself as dictator for life. Despite being seen by many in the West as the best hope for peace, Abbas is viewed by his people as weak and corrupt, has a history of making antisemitic comments and actively supports terrorism against Israelis through the PA’s pay-for-slay program.

Biden would like to see a “revitalized Palestinian Authority” take control of Gaza, but it seems unlikely that Abbas will either regain the trust of his people or give up power without a fight. Nor does he have any clear successors.

A December poll found that around 90 per cent of Palestinians want Abbas to resign. The most popular political figure to replace him is Marwan Barghouti, a leader of the two intefadehs and a founder of the al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, who is currently serving five cumulative life sentences after being convicted on multiple counts of murder and attempted murder. The runner up is Ismail Haniyeh, a senior Hamas leader. None of these men would be a willing partner in peace.

It’s thus hard to blame Israelis for thinking a two-state solution is dead in the water. They’ve seen multiple peace overtures rejected by the Palestinians in favour of violence. They’ve witnessed Israeli troops forcibly eject their own people from the Strip, only to have Gazans stream across the border to rape and slaughter them, while still facing accusations of being an occupying power.

Nor are Palestinians all that amenable to a two-state solution: it is favoured by less than 20 per cent of the population, with the vast majority advocating for a “Palestinian state from the river to the sea” (i.e., one that has conquered the Jewish state and driven its people into the sea). This is also the position taken by Hamas.

The only viable long-term solution is for Israel to wash its hands of the Palestinian territories. In order for that to happen, the international community will have to take responsibility for rebuilding Gaza and ensuring that the territories don’t pose a threat to the Jewish state.

The EU has proposed a “peace plan” that would see the bloc engaging with a number of Arab countries — including Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia — and providing “robust security assurances for Israel.” But as Ukraine found out the hard way, western security guarantees aren’t worth the paper they’re written on if they’re not backed up with force.

When Israel has completed its campaign to extricate Hamas, an international peacekeeping force should be sent in to maintain order and rebuild the territory. Responsibility for Gaza should be handed back to the Egyptians, who, with international assistance, could work to ensure the territory is no longer reliant on Israel for basic necessities like power and water.

A large-scale international effort to rebuild Gaza, root out terrorist elements and build the civic institutions necessary for the eventual creation of a sovereign state would be a long, arduous process, but it’s hard to see any other path to a two-state solution. If Trudeau, Biden and European leaders are serious about a lasting peace, they need to step up and take responsibility for it.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,074
7,972
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Forty-nine of the 51 members of the Senate Democratic caucus backed an amendment supporting a negotiated solution to the conflict that results in Israeli and Palestinian states living side by side, ensuring Israel's survival as a secure, democratic, Jewish state and fulfilling the Palestinians' "legitimate aspirations" for a state of their own.
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas was elected, back in 2005, but since installed himself as dictator for life.
Sort of like Hamas in Gaza. Perhaps whomever is running that third Palestinian Enclave might be a viable alternative for running a future Palestinian state?
It’s thus hard to blame Israelis for thinking a two-state solution is dead in the water. They’ve seen multiple peace overtures rejected by the Palestinians in favour of violence. They’ve witnessed Israeli troops forcibly eject their own people from the Strip, only to have Gazans stream across the border to rape and slaughter them, while still facing accusations of being an occupying power.
Nor are Palestinians all that amenable to a two-state solution: it is favoured by less than 20 per cent of the population, with the vast majority advocating for a “Palestinian state from the river to the sea” (i.e., one that has conquered the Jewish state and driven its people into the sea). This is also the position taken by Hamas.
Seems those seeking a TWO State solution happen to not be directly involved in the situation or have asked those directly involved in what they want.
The only viable long-term solution is for Israel to wash its hands of the Palestinian territories. In order for that to happen, the international community will have to take responsibility for rebuilding Gaza and ensuring that the territories don’t pose a threat to the Jewish state.
So, who’s offering this above to both the Palestinian & Jewish peoples? With war raging in Gaza between Israel and Hamas, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said at a press conference this month that he objected to any Palestinian statehood that did not “guarantee” Israel's security.
 
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Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
5,717
3,596
113
Edmonton
Their choice. Maybe they (both sides, including the PL & PLO & Hamas & Iran & Israel & Palestinians that haven’t already been mentioned) should be asked what they want? What’s gonna work for them?
The only thing that will work for them is total annellation of Israel & Jews world-wide. They're quite open about it. Why aren't people taking them at their word?
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,074
7,972
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
The only thing that will work for them is total annellation of Israel & Jews world-wide. They're quite open about it. Why aren't people taking them at their word?
Well, that’s the starting point of the negotiations on one side of the conflict. Perhaps they can find a happy middle ground to complete genocide.

Perhaps….someone with more energy, can walk them through it.