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Dixie Cup

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I saw a documentary (or maybe it was one of the TV shows like 60 Minutes or something - it's been maybe 2 or 3 years ago) - anyway, a camera crew went throughout some of Palestinian communities (for lack of a better word) to ask the "common' people what they thought of Israel and almost to the person, they all had nothing but good to say. Israel provides them with water, medical assistance, etc.

When asked about the political situation, most didn't have any opinion because they really didn't know what their leadership was up to. Anyway, because it's been awhile since I saw it, I can't remember a lot of the things that were said but I do remember thinking that the issues between Palestine & Israel were the making of the Political Arm of the Palestinians and that (most) of the people really didn't have any animus towards Israel, in fact actually appreciating what Israel was doing for them because their leadership wasn't.

Anyhoo - I was really surprised because I thought that Israel would come out the "really bad guy" that they usually do but not this time and they weren't talking to TV presenters/reporters/government but just regular Palestinians. It was quite eye opening.
 
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The_Foxer

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What's even more hypocritical is Groper doesn't seem the least bit phased about Quebec's use of the clause to clamp down on basic human and civil rights. But god forbid some whiny little privileged union turd is forced back to work.
Good point. I mean he DID say it was bad.. Once. Mumbling. Not making eye contact with the cameras. And did nothing about it.
 
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The_Foxer

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Love how you figured that out all by yourself.

Here, let me help. Know something else? Your name isn't Inigo Montoya.

Amazing, enit?
Well i guess that's one way of saying "I'm utterly pathetic and have no intelligent response to your posts so i guess this is the best i can do" without actually saying it :)

Dude - have at least a LITTLE self respect. You're just looking like a sad whiner now. If you can't come up with a single counter argument then just let it be. This is just sad to watch.
 

Jinentonix

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Except... sort'a not really? But okay.



And that is?



Why play the "stupid games" at all. As hated as Bush was - and he was - despite everything, HE never had any of this kind of shit go down during his time in office, or after. Why is it only Trump has ALL these damned issues? As I've heard his supporters say "something doesn't compute". Especially when a lot of those issues with his time in office, WERE actual, legit problems, enough to warrant people to look into it.
Why is it only Trump has these issues? Seriously? Here's a guy who has never played in the political arena before, coming out of "nowhere" and winning the Presidency. His father happened to be a big Democrat supporter so I'm sure the Democrats were rather disappointed that Trump ran as a Republican.
There's also "a way to do things" and not having a career in politics before becoming president is just a really horribly awful thing, apparently. You might upset the apple cart and pig trough the career politicians on both sides spent years building for themselves, and we can't have that now, can we.

The entire world, except the ideologically blind and stupid know by now that whole Russian collusion thing was a big, fat hoax. Some of us knew it from day 1. Why in the fuck would I believe a single word from a party that spent 3 1/2 years desperately trying to make their hoax play out somehow in anyway with all the fishing trips, or a word from the same MSM that worked hard to help Democrats with their collusion hoax, when it comes to anything to do with Trump.

Did you ever stop to think that all this nonsense still going on is not just a desperate bid to win the mid-terms, but to distract from the complete and total disaster Joe Shmo is? I mean they don't even have him campagning for the mid-terms, they had to haul out an old rerun to do it.

In a sense they are also sending a message (and have been since 2016) to anyone and everyone else out there who dares try to make a bid for the presidency without "putting in their time first".
The political class are very protective of their shit.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Ahhh I see. So your post was just apropos of nothing.
Could mean that. Or it could mean that if "Inigo Montoya" could stand in for Jinentonix, maybe "killed my father" could stand in for "shot my father."

Naaah. That don't make no sense atall!

Don't sweat it, bruh. You clearly ain't in the mood to discuss the whole Israel-Palestine dog's breakfast, so just let it pass.
 

Jinentonix

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Good point. I mean he DID say it was bad.. Once. Mumbling. Not making eye contact with the cameras. And did nothing about it.
Actually he did manage to prove that Quebec is racist enough to actually vote for the abrogation of basic Canadian rights. I remember he did acknowledge the issue in Quebec and then casually told us it was up to the voters in Quebec. Pierre should hammer him on that one if Mr. "We're standing up for the rights of ALL Canadians" wants to cry about the use of the notwithstanding clause in Ontario to force striking teachers back to work.

Or maybe Groper is suggesting that Quebecers aren't actually Canadian.
 
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Jinentonix

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Could mean that. Or it could mean that if "Inigo Montoya" could stand in for Jinentonix, maybe "killed my father" could stand in for "shot my father."

Naaah. That don't make no sense atall!

Don't sweat it, bruh. You clearly ain't in the mood to discuss the whole Israel-Palestine dog's breakfast, so just let it pass.
Really? That's your take-away? Despite the fact I've actually been discussing that very topic in here?
 

Serryah

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Yet Palestine routinely uses civilian infrastructure to coordinate and launch attacks on Israel. That is a war crime AND a crime against humanity. You might not be willing to absolve Palestine for their part, but on a global level it seems the Jew haters prefer to ignore that little tidbit of fact. Palestine commits a war crime and crime against humanity, Israel retaliates and muslims and leftards scream "genocide".

It's ABSOLUTELY a war crime and terrorists attacks and why I also stand that Palestine doesn't want Peace either.

What about Israel's stealing land they don't have rights to and kicking off the rightful owners, even killing them, against international law? I know it's "What about" ism, but you keep pointing out Palestine's evils - which I totally agree with - yet say nothing about theirs?

Well, quit picking fights with people who have guns and shit when all you have is rocks. Pretty simple.

I'd agree with that.

But how about Israel not use that shit and instead non-lethal means?

Militarily no. In the court of public opinion they're already winning though.

Because the tide shifted once social media started to show how Israel is treating people who don't even want to fight, or who are part of their own nation (Arab's do live in Israel, ya know) and now have people claiming they should be shot and kicked out.

Let me ask you this. How would YOU react if your neighbours spent the better part of 75 years continually attacking you and your family?

Well, answer my question first, then I'll dive into answering this, but the TL;DR - at this point, it doesn't matter, because "both sides" have done so much horrible shit neither side will say "This won't ever stop" because now it's all for revenge.
How would YOU react if every attempt at making peace with your neighbours was spit back in your face. How would YOU react if every time you retaliated you were accused of trying to kill the entire family next door.

Also you claim the land belongs to Palestine. Does it? Palestinians have never owned Palestine. It's always been under someone else's control. Secondly, scholars and archaeologists have determined that BOTH people entered the land about 100 years apart. The people who became the Palestinians settled in the west and south of the land while the ancient Israelites settled in the hills and plains of the east and north.

However, if we wanna talk about who was there first, Egypt was busy colonizing the land even before the Israelites and Palestinian ancestors settled in it. This was part of Egypt's rationale for wanting to take the entire southern half of that land after Israel was defeated in the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. The Arab muslim states weren't very keen on even a one state solution with Palestine being that one state. The goal was to defeat Israel and carve up the land between Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.

As for the Palestinians, they elected Hamas. If you wanna know why Israel finally said "fuck it" in response to Palestine, that's why. Extremism begets extremism. Problem is everyone wants to point fingers at the reactive extremism and not the cause of it, 'cuz Jews is evil".

Oddly enough, in what is probably one of the greatest ironies of history, Palestine still exists only because Israel didn't lose that war in 1948, or any of the following wars.

Well, answer my question first, then I'll dive into answering this, but the TL;DR - at this point, it doesn't matter, because "both sides" have done so much horrible shit neither side will say "This needs to stop" because now it's all for revenge.

Finally, the Palestinians are human fucking garbage. They actually shot my father while he was helping to protect/defend them from potential extremists on the Israeli side. (Remember, in the early days the Soviet Union backed Israel while Britain backed Palestine.) They're just a bunch of mutts.

I'm sorry your father was shot. Was the person who did it ever caught? Convicted? Dealt with? No, likely not considering the time period. And as much as my sympathy likely doesn't matter, I am still sorry it happened.

And, sadly, because of that act, you have become part of the actual problem.

"They did X to me!" "They killed X"

They're worthless. They're mutts.

They are now "other" and because of that, not worth it, even if they could be. Because revenge is easier than peace.

And it's why Palestine and Israel will always be like this.

But you said it yourself, your father was helping Palestinians against EXTREMISTS on the Israeli side.

Those extremists still exist, and have ensured there IS no chance of peace.

In a way, they have won because they've convinced the world that "They're a bunch of mutts" and that's all they ever could be. And Palestine damns themselves every day by giving them ample ammuntion and proof of it.
 

Serryah

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I saw a documentary (or maybe it was one of the TV shows like 60 Minutes or something - it's been maybe 2 or 3 years ago) - anyway, a camera crew went throughout some of Palestinian communities (for lack of a better word) to ask the "common' people what they thought of Israel and almost to the person, they all had nothing but good to say. Israel provides them with water, medical assistance, etc.

But why should it be ISRAEL that "provides" this? Why can't it be themselves, their own government?

That's part of the issue for some.

When asked about the political situation, most didn't have any opinion because they really didn't know what their leadership was up to. Anyway, because it's been awhile since I saw it, I can't remember a lot of the things that were said but I do remember thinking that the issues between Palestine & Israel were the making of the Political Arm of the Palestinians and that (most) of the people really didn't have any animus towards Israel, in fact actually appreciating what Israel was doing for them because their leadership wasn't.

Anyhoo - I was really surprised because I thought that Israel would come out the "really bad guy" that they usually do but not this time and they weren't talking to TV presenters/reporters/government but just regular Palestinians. It was quite eye opening.

Oh I've no doubt there ARE lots of pro-Israel Palestinians that live in Palestine and occupied areas.

That doesn't de-ligitimize the problems though.

You saw this doc about how great Israel is to the regular people.

I've seen doc's about how Israeli soldiers are stealing land that isn't theirs and killing people over it. Or arresting them.

Where's the condemnation of that?
 

Tecumsehsbones

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And that, right there, is what it's about.

And why "revenge" is always seen as a "bad" thing. Because it consumes and destroys everything it touches.
"Let who goes out for revenge first dig two graves."

They got over it in South Africa and in Northern Ireland. Maybe they'll get over it in Israel and Palestine.
 
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Serryah

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"Let who goes out for revenge first dig two graves."

They got over it in South Africa and in Northern Ireland. Maybe they'll get over it in Israel and Palestine.

I think one of the things to change it has been social media and all the recorded incidents on both sides.

As a kid, I grew up being all pro-Israel. Mom was seriously pro-Israel so that's just how it was. But then Rabin was killed and for me that was the turning point. Then videos started coming out...

In the end, until both acknowledge they want to change, they're both at fault, they both apparently want all this chaos and death and destruction too much and I support no one until they smarten the hell up.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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I'm pro-Israel, if by that you mean I agree with Israel's right to exist within secure borders and determine its own politics.

Not real happy with some of the things Israel does.

Same's true of any country.

 
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Serryah

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I'm pro-Israel, if by that you mean I agree with Israel's right to exist within secure borders and determine its own politics.

Not real happy with some of the things Israel does.

Same's true of any country.


Despite how I disagree with how Israel came to be (and I think it's insulting to Jews) I agree in the end.
 

Serryah

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I like the propaganda about a "homeland." The Balfour Decision was made in 1925, long before WWII or the Shoah. The Brits just wanted to get rid of the Jews.

Exactly.

The whole 'creation of the Jewish state' was, in actuality, Europe using it as an excuse to kick out the Jews from "Their" territories. To me it was as anti-semetic as anything else was. Then WWII happened and it became a guilt/compensation thing because "holy shit so many died because..." well, basically, other nations were fucking assholes and didn't believe the Jews in German occupied places of how bad it was.

And now Israel exists not just out of guilt, and not just out of the "need" for Jews to have a homeland of their own, but because Christian right in mostly the US want the return of Jeeezus, and that won't happen if Israel doesn't exist.

So here we are.

The Jewish state/homeland is bottom of the list of reasons for Israel to exist, and always has been, and to me that's just insulting, disgusting, and I don't get why more don't see it...