Bhutto follows her father

[Pangloss]

DB:

There are plenty of examples throughout history of leaders who are mostly good, and a little bad at the same time. Just like you. Just like me. Just like Chavez. But hey, let's not threadjack, hmm?

We are not binary creatures, either all good or all bad, just like the characters in a D&D game - we are complicated, self-contradicting, awesome and wretched at the same time.

That's why no one answer always works every time.

Pangloss

 

[darkbeaver]

Bhutto was a true patriot who did believe in her heart that she was but one person who had to speak what was in her heart. I think she pushed the envelope but with the elections being so close in time she felt she had to reach out to the masses. I did read where illiteracy in that nation is astounding and that many will come to hear the spoken word but have no other means of getting any media information due to the fact they cannot read or write. I think the group who missed her during the last assassination attempt planned this successful strike too. I'm still concerned about the security of the nuclear weapons that nation controls and the attitudes of the existing government towards those who bode the west ill will. The media claims there are several in this government who are also very friendly with both the Taliban and the Al Queda groups. I still think Musharref only uses us for our foreign aid to help keep his regime propped up.

We should all be concerned about the nuclear weapons in Pakistan that the United States very likely control. Musharref uses America? Musharref only breaths because he's usefull to Uncle Sam, they own him. There are Taleban in the government and the military, Al-Queda is a CIA operation, bought, assembled and directed from you know where. It's just opinion you understand.:smile:

 

[lone wolf]

Hell of it is, there are so many factions and causes vying for power that even if a Pakistani Ghandi walked into their midst, somebody would kill him for wearing the wrong colour. Talk about identity crisis!

Woof!

 

[warrior_won]

Al-Queda is a CIA operation, bought, assembled and directed from you know where.

I think you've been watching one too many Lone Gunmen episodes. Remember that last episode? The one that was to be continued... but never was?

Al Qaeda is financed by governments, but not the U.S. government. They're financed by governments that are anti-america. And it's not difficult to find governments that are anti-america. Our own Chretien lead Liberal government was anti-america. Though they weren't financing Al Qaeda.


On an unrelated matter, but an interesting coincidence nonetheless, the Lone Gunmen was cancelled in June 2001. The same month that RWS ended. It's an industry conspiracy, I tell ya.

 

[talloola]

Her death is very sad. I, as she, have been waiting for this day, I, as she, knew it was coming, only a matter of time.

I am trying to know, what good her return was. How can her death help the Pakistani people. She said she was all for the people, and democracy, yet, she knew she would
die, her situation was impossible, as those factions in Pakistan would never have let her
live, SO, her death can only make things worse, and those who hoped her return would
change their lives, now can only feel hopelessness and despair.

Does anyone actually believe that she thought she could succeed, she was far too smart
for that, so, in my opinion, she deliberately came back to die for her country and people, which is not so smart, or helpful, but she is a martyr now, maybe that was the plan all
along.

Why didn't she stay where she was, and let Pakistan muddle through their problems without 'pausing', to kill her, as her death will enrage many and please others, whats the
point, really.

 

[warrior_won]

Live on your knees or die on your feet... She died on her feet. :smile:

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Humanety facing advercety!

The madness that is Pakistan, continues.


Benazir Bhutto killed in attack

Benazir Bhutto had been addressing rallies in many parts of Pakistan

Pakistani former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto has been killed in a presumed suicide attack.
News of her death was confirmed by a military spokesman and members of her Pakistan People's Party (PPP).
Ms Bhutto had just addressed an election rally in Rawalpindi when gunfire and an explosion occurred. At least 15 other people are reported killed in the attack and several more were injured. Ms Bhutto had twice been the country's prime minister.

Benazir Bhutto's assassination is a frightening moment in human history. It is astonishing that democracy today as it has in many parts of this planet faced it's cowered enemy face to face and lost big time. The extreme RIGHT took out The LEFT and democracy was assassinated along with this great champion Benazir Bhutto!!! FAREWELL GREAT LADY AND TRUE FRIEND OF DEMOCRACY. DEMOCRACY IS DEAD IN PAKISTAN TODAY. Truth is Democracy is dead in many parts of the world but this news today in Pakistan are bad! God Bless Pakistan!

 

[Walter]

am I missing something? I could be.

Par for the course.

 

[Pangloss]

Talloola:

If you read Hitchens' article earlier in the thread, you'll find Bhutto was a woman of "considerable physical courage." She confronted danger and beat it back with words and the force of her beliefs and personality. She obviously believed what worked in the past would continue to work.

So, no, I don't think Bhutto ever had any intention to be a martyr. Now, it is true her father was assassinated and Bhutto was massively driven by the memory and legend of her dad, so if she thought of her death, she was likely fairly sanguine about it.

She came back, not to die, but to fulfill her and her father's destiny - to lead Pakistan into a true secular Western-style democracy where no faith or ethnic group has more rights than any other.

The idea of no good coming from her death - that isn't necessarily so. If the public demonstrations are large enough, the elections will be delayed, giving opposition forces the chance to effectively challenge Musharraf's party. Her death, if it can be credibly linked to Al Quaida and the Taliban, will push Pakistan to sever their ties with them, and also perhaps to exert greater control over the madrassas.

She didn't stay where she was, in her "gilded exile" as Hitchens wrote, because she believed her work was in Pakistan, not Switzerland.

Pangloss

 

[Kreskin]

Is it any wonder why conspiracy theories start?

Her body is still warm but is now 6 feet under. No autopsy. And the only camera that was on her seems to veer off just moments before the explosion.

 

[darkbeaver]

I think you've been watching one too many Lone Gunmen episodes. Remember that last episode? The one that was to be continued... but never was?

Al Qaeda is financed by governments, but not the U.S. government. They're financed by governments that are anti-america. And it's not difficult to find governments that are anti-america. Our own Chretien lead Liberal government was anti-america. Though they weren't financing Al Qaeda.


On an unrelated matter, but an interesting coincidence nonetheless, the Lone Gunmen was cancelled in June 2001. The same month that RWS ended. It's an industry conspiracy, I tell ya.

A: I don't watch TV
B: Al-Qaeda is a CIA operation
C: You seem to believe that the ruling clique believe anti-American sentiment and action is a bad thing, it's a perfect control for manufactured reactionary devices.

You should stop watching the Telly. It's conditioning is obvious.

 

[darkbeaver]

Talloola:

If you read Hitchens' article earlier in the thread, you'll find Bhutto was a woman of "considerable physical courage." She confronted danger and beat it back with words and the force of her beliefs and personality. She obviously believed what worked in the past would continue to work.

So, no, I don't think Bhutto ever had any intention to be a martyr. Now, it is true her father was assassinated and Bhutto was massively driven by the memory and legend of her dad, so if she thought of her death, she was likely fairly sanguine about it.

She came back, not to die, but to fulfill her and her father's destiny - to lead Pakistan into a true secular Western-style democracy where no faith or ethnic group has more rights than any other.

The idea of no good coming from her death - that isn't necessarily so. If the public demonstrations are large enough, the elections will be delayed, giving opposition forces the chance to effectively challenge Musharraf's party. Her death, if it can be credibly linked to Al Quaida and the Taliban, will push Pakistan to sever their ties with them, and also perhaps to exert greater control over the madrassas.

She didn't stay where she was, in her "gilded exile" as Hitchens wrote, because she believed her work was in Pakistan, not Switzerland.

Pangloss

Hey Pangloss, you should write for the MSM. You have a knack for empty rhetoric and common sentimentalisation, it reminds me of Ophra or Martha Stewart. Of course some good will come from her death, there's one less thieving lying useless parasite.

 

[normbc9]

Corruption is what all the citizens of the Eastern countries are rauised with. It is a way of life. When I was in the milittary I trained with Iranian, Pakistani, Thai and others. In the miltary systems rank and position is bought rather than earned. Thse who can fly, will fly. Those who are good on the ocean will serve there. The only nations from that part of the world who truly recruit and promote based on individual abilities are Israel, Taiwan, Japan and India. I don't know how trhe Chainese system works byt I do know the family history of service to the government is a major factor. In this case corruption is all that Bhutto knew and was used to dealing with it. History will bear her to be a major player for this now totally out of control nation.

 

[Pangloss]

DB:

If I'm wrong, point out where I am wrong, and I'll thank you for correcting me.

Personal attacks without substantiation merely diminish the author.

Pangloss

 

[Pangloss]

Norm:

You are contradicting your post of yesterday. So which one do you intend?

Pangloss

 

[darkbeaver]

DB:

If I'm wrong, point out where I am wrong, and I'll thank you for correcting me.

Personal attacks without substantiation merely diminish the author.

Pangloss

"She came back, not to die, but to fulfill her and her father's destiny - to lead Pakistan into a true secular Western-style democracy where no faith or ethnic group has more rights than any other.
The idea of no good coming from her death - that isn't necessarily so. If the public demonstrations are large enough, the elections will be delayed, giving opposition forces the chance to effectively challenge Musharraf's party. Her death, if it can be credibly linked to Al Quaida and the Taliban, will push Pakistan to sever their ties with them, and also perhaps to exert greater control over the madrassas."

All of that is wrong. Who in thier right mind would want a western style secular democracy that serves the elite clique exclusively. Pakistan could do no better than to rid itself western influence whose only interest is in destabilization and eventual conquest.
When you use a device like "true secular Western-style democracy" you diminish yourself entirely. My tiny little digs could not possible add to your self inflicted deficit.

 

[wallyj]

Is it any wonder why conspiracy theories start?

Her body is still warm but is now 6 feet under. No autopsy. And the only camera that was on her seems to veer off just moments before the explosion.

There was an autopsy. It revealed that she died from shrapnel from the bomb. It is the custom in Pakistan to bury the body with-in 24 hours. Conspiracy theories start because people enjoy appearing 'in the know' and lording thier intellectual 'superiority' over others. Actually though,they have a neurotic mental disorder. In some people it becomes a full-blown psychosis that hampers their ability to think critically or analytically. To them it is easier to accept strange twisted fictions than to accept ugly reality.

 

[Kreskin]

There was an autopsy. It revealed that she died from shrapnel from the bomb. It is the custom in Pakistan to bury the body with-in 24 hours. Conspiracy theories start because people enjoy appearing 'in the know' and lording thier intellectual 'superiority' over others. Actually though,they have a neurotic mental disorder. In some people it becomes a full-blown psychosis that hampers their ability to think critically or analytically. To them it is easier to accept strange twisted fictions than to accept ugly reality.

Now they are saying she died hitting her head on a lever while trying to get back inside the vehicle.

 

[Walter]

Now they are saying she died hitting her head on a lever while trying to get back inside the vehicle.

I heard it was e-coli in the bottled water that was bottled in Walkerton by the Koebel brothers under the direction of Mike Harris. She was also pregnant with Kobe Bryant's baby.

 

[Kreskin]

I'm being serious. The Pakistani officials say she hit her head on a lever while trying to get back inside the vehicle.

This one will fester.