B.C. pedophile, homeward bound after Thai prison term, arrested at Vancouver airport

[PoliticalNick]

Calling for different standards for crimes perpetrated upon the bodies of citizens, is not simply an emotional reaction, it's based on the fact that the main intent of the law is to keep citizens safe. Not corporations, not banks... citizens. To demand that there be a higher priority placed on dealing with crime that violates the physical safety and the human rights of others, is not hypocritical, it's not emotional, it's not based on this case being pedophilia. Sexual assault, murder, enslavement... they all should be crimes you can't simply hop a border to escape, as hopping a border is too simple in this day and age.

We are not talking about avoiding prosecution by leaving the country. Hard to do today with the extradition agreements around the world. If he committed an offense in Thailand and then came home to BC all the Thai govt needs to do is present our courts with enough evidence to show they have reasonable grounds for a trial and we will extradite, that simple.

Where do we go when the act is not a crime in the jurisdiction it happened in? Can I smoke a reefer in Amsterdam safely knowing it is illegal here at home? I didn't break Dutch law but I did break Canadian law except I didn't because Canadian law does not apply in Holland. Now if the age of consent in some country is 12 how do we deal with that? Do we use extraterritorial prosecution when realistically NO laws have been broken?

The emotional outrage everyone is showing calling for his hanging etc after he has been convicted and done his sentence in Thailand is nothing more than Lynch Mob mentality. I find it almost as disgusting as his crimes. I find the law that would prosecute him here in Canada for events in another nation disgusting. Where does it stop? Are we Canadians subject to our law wherever we are on the planet even though the protection of our govt and legal system stops at our borders?

I think the best way to deal with this particular situation is to inform the govts of any country we know he has committed a crime in that they can have him back for prosecution.

Don't misunderstand, I know you think you are protecting children but at what cost to our freedom and sovereignty?

 

[karrie]

He hasn't done his time. He has only been convicted of one offense, out of the many he has posted pictures of.

And you're still comparing laws that do not pertain to directly violating other human beings' rights or safety. Honestly, they don't compare, and shouldn't compare, under the law. Draw that simple line, and your hand wringing about that joint you smoked, or song you downloaded, is a non-issue. And I agree it is a line we should be drawing regarding international prosecution.

 

[JLM]

He hasn't done his time. He has only been convicted of one offense, out of the many he has posted pictures of.

And you're still comparing laws that do not pertain to directly violating other human beings' rights or safety. Honestly, they don't compare, and shouldn't compare, under the law. Draw that simple line, and your hand wringing about that joint you smoked, or song you downloaded, is a non-issue. And I agree it is a line we should be drawing regarding international prosecution.

Yes and no, when convicted of multiple crimes the sentences often run concurrent. Not that I'm in favour of this A$$hole enjoying freedom anytime soon. (Of course my prescription for these A$$holes is frowned upon by the general population)

 

[Machjo]

But just because he has served his time for crimes committed in Thailand should not stop us from prosecuting him for crimes committed in Canada. And heck, if it runs out he'd committed a crime in Japan too, once he's served in time in Canadian prison, then ship over to Japan to stand trial for the crimes he'd committed there too. Then he'd get to do some prison tourism.

But I wouldn't want Canada trying him for what he'd done in Japan either.

 

[PoliticalNick]

But just because he has served his time for crimes committed in Thailand should not stop us from prosecuting him for crimes committed in Canada. And heck, if it runs out he'd committed a crime in Japan too, once he's served in time in Canadian prison, then ship over to Japan to stand trial for the crimes he'd committed there too. Then he'd get to do some prison tourism.

But I wouldn't want Canada trying him for what he'd done in Japan either.

Exactly. Extradite him from place to place for the rest of his life and let each country deal with him under their state laws for the offenses in those countries.

I do understand how you want to differentiate Karrie but we are crossing the line of sovereignty here so if you want it to be a set of laws that apply internationally to certain crimes they must be done internationally at The Hague.

 

[Corduroy]

Canada charging a citizen for a crime committed in another jurisdiction just doesn't seem right, especially considering he was convicted and served time for those crimes in that other jurisdiction. Even when it comes to international law, ideally criminals are charged, convicted and sentenced in the countries in which the crimes were committed.

Perhaps laws against pedophile tourism can be extended into international jurisdiction. That would be a major step towards blurring the lines of national sovereignty, far more than current international law does.

 

[JLM]

Canada charging a citizen for a crime committed in another jurisdiction just doesn't seem right, especially considering he was convicted and served time for those crimes in that other jurisdiction. Even when it comes to international law, ideally criminals are charged, convicted and sentenced in the countries in which the crimes were committed.

Perhaps laws against pedophile tourism can be extended into international jurisdiction. That would be a major step towards blurring the lines of national sovereignty, far more than current international law does.

That made perfect sense to me until several of the learned posters informed me otherwise. However I think it's all for the best, we don't want these friggin' creeps wandering around anywhere on the planet. Not if we value ALL children!

 

[Corduroy]

Normally people have certain principles when it comes to the law. You know, things like innocence until proven guilty, fair trial, the right to not be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment or double jeopardy. It might not seem as fundamental, but competence is one of those principles. Competence in the legal sense refers to a courts legal ability to rule over a given jurisdiction. When it comes to things like pedophilia, people tend to throw these principles out the window: "cut off his balls with a blunt knife!" "let the prison population rape and murder them!" "lock them up forever!".

I can understand the emotion and the appeal of at least the last punishment I mentioned. And a lot of serious crimes can be said to be beyond judicial competence. In fact, the war crimes tribunals after the Second World War had little to no legality even by the slimmest stretches international law. How could we deny the need to punish those people? How can we let a convicted pedophile roam free in Canada? The emotions are not unreasonable, but the prescriptions of justice suggested are. We need to step back a little and at least realize our conflicting principles, rather than just throwing some out.

 

[PoliticalNick]

That made perfect sense to me until several of the learned posters informed me otherwise. However I think it's all for the best, we don't want these friggin' creeps wandering around anywhere on the planet. Not if we value ALL children!

Of course we don't want them around, but we can't just go inventing laws that violate individual rights and international sovereignty to keep them away. Better we create and invest in a true international law and justice system to deal with it. What we are doing now is not the correct way to handle the problem.

If someone could answer my original question of what did they charge him with to arrest him? That was my original concern, did they have a valid charge to arrest the man on? If they did not have a valid charge then it is a civil rights violation whether you want to agree or not.

 

[JLM]

Of course we don't want them around, but we can't just go inventing laws that violate individual rights and international sovereignty to keep them away. Better we create and invest in a true international law and justice system to deal with it. What we are doing now is not the correct way to handle the problem.

If someone could answer my original question of what did they charge him with to arrest him? That was my original concern, did they have a valid charge to arrest the man on? If they did not have a valid charge then it is a civil rights violation whether you want to agree or not.

When dealing with these frickin' scumbags you do whatever works as long as no innocent people are harmed. Personally, I don't feel a convicted child molester has any rights beyond getting a fair trial.

 

[PoliticalNick]

When dealing with these frickin' scumbags you do whatever works as long as no innocent people are harmed. Personally, I don't feel a convicted child molester has any rights beyond getting a fair trial.

Therin lies the rub, as they say. To maintain law and order and a civilized society we are afforded certain rights. For the system to work properly those rights must be maintained at all times for everybody equally. I do see innocent people getting hurt as we erode these rights and standards of the law because erosion never goes backwards, only forwards.

 

[EagleSmack]

:roll: Well isn't that special. Machjo proposes that Canadian citizens can go off and diddle little kids all over the world, come back to Canada and basically have immunity.

Now, I wonder why ANYONE would support that type of thinking..... aside from the pedophiles themselves.

Gerry laying the BOOM!



LMAO.

 

[JLM]

Gerry laying the BOOM!



LMAO.

Yep, at his blackest and whitest. I think he was doing a little extrapolating from what Machjo was saying! :lol:

 

[wizard]

... the rcmp fully acknowledge that christopher neil is not guilty of perpetrating any new crimes that they know of since he was released from jail. that is a clear victory for christopher neil ...

... further, the rcmp are also openly admitting that they detain people for essentially no reason. even the criminal code section 810 provision that is being cited to detain this man requires some evidence that the person poses a risk to other people or property ...

... these are very unsettling messages we are receiving from the canadian government ...

 

[JLM]

... the rcmp fully acknowledge that christopher neil is not guilty of perpetrating any new crimes that they know of since he was released from jail. that is a clear victory for christopher neil ...

... further, the rcmp are also openly admitting that they detain people for essentially no reason. even the criminal code section 810 provision that is being cited to detain this man requires some evidence that the person poses a risk to other people or property ...

... these are very unsettling messages we are receiving from the canadian government ...

Hey, Wiz, the man was convicted of kiddy porn in Thailand, that's what kiddy diddlers do, like sharks bite off arms and legs! Are you a little slow today?

 

[Corduroy]

If the RCMP didn't have any evidence to arrest this man on, they would be jeopardizing their ability to convict him later in court. Unfortunately for the tinfoil hatists with chips on the shoulders, the justice system isn't an opaque conspiracy to maliciously ruin people's lives for no reason. Our legal procedures are public and judges, if anything, tend to be lenient and procedural to a fault. If the RCMP are arresting this man without grounds and without going through the proper procedures, you should be lamenting the fact that such behaviour could end up letting a guilty man go free, not that it's evidence for a Kafkaesque secret gestapo.

 

[wizard]

... the frightening thing about the rcmp actions in this case is that they are telling us that they incarcerate people accused of sex crimes without any evidence. for example, a vancouver reporter named ron benze just got four years in the slam without an open trial for supposedly being a pedophile. but was there any evidence against him? the rcmp are telling us there doesn't need to be any evidence ...

... this is all just empty grandstanding by a criminal organization on the way out ...

 

[Goober]

Exactly. Extradite him from place to place for the rest of his life and let each country deal with him under their state laws for the offenses in those countries.

I do understand how you want to differentiate Karrie but we are crossing the line of sovereignty here so if you want it to be a set of laws that apply internationally to certain crimes they must be done internationally at The Hague.

We have charged and convicted persons for committing War Crimes. The crimes were in Rwanda - The trial was in canada - and not the Hague.

Now this pedo posted sex crimes online- if downloaded in Canada he is then guilty as far as I know. And the only way of convicting and lessening this evil is with laws such as we have.
We are becoming more and more a global community.


Must have missed your reply on this legal point.
I would say google the charges laid, convictions for Canadians bribing persons - Govt officials from other countries on their soil, not Canadian soil, overseas for Canadian contracts- So it is not unconstitutional.

Underlining it was to make them easy to note - not insulting - also I underlined your point ref convictions as well as mine made in an earlier post and clarified it as well.

Many countries have this law along with laws on bribing govt officials overseas -

 

[JLM]

... the frightening thing about the rcmp actions in this case is that they are telling us that they incarcerate people accused of sex crimes without any evidence. for example, a vancouver reporter named ron benze just got four years in the slam without an open trial for supposedly being a pedophile. but was there any evidence against him? the rcmp are telling us there doesn't need to be any evidence ...

... this is all just empty grandstanding by a criminal organization on the way out ...

Benze got off damn easy, the bastard should be doing about 50 years!

If the RCMP didn't have any evidence to arrest this man on, they would be jeopardizing their ability to convict him later in court. Unfortunately for the tinfoil hatists with chips on the shoulders, the justice system isn't an opaque conspiracy to maliciously ruin people's lives for no reason. Our legal procedures are public and judges, if anything, tend to be lenient and procedural to a fault. If the RCMP are arresting this man without grounds and without going through the proper procedures, you should be lamenting the fact that such behaviour could end up letting a guilty man go free, not that it's evidence for a Kafkaesque secret gestapo.

Well, apparently as the law exists they do. When he committed whatever crimes he did against children in Thailand he also broke Canadian law, so I think they can start back at square one and have another kick at him! Now I'm not sure how valid this procedure is as I would imagine in some third world countries the onus of proof is very limited like (maybe he looks like the guy)

 

[wizard]

... the rcmp themselves should be subject to recognizance order conditions, not christopher neil, especially when it comes to vancouver international airport ...

... the rcmp are clearly guilty of attacking innocent victims at yvr. among other incidents, there was the hit on robert dziekański in 2007 and now this kidnapping of an innocent traveller arriving from asia ...

... the rcmp are making the airport a very unsafe place to be and they should be permanently banned from going there ...