Arizona's Immigration Law

DaSleeper

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Before making it a partisan issue like an above poster keeps doing ...I would suggest reading the law ....here is an excerpt...
A. No official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may limit or restrict the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.

B. For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation. Any person who is arrested shall have the person’s immigration status determined before the person is released. The person’s immigration status shall be verified with the federal government pursuant to 8 United States code section 1373(c). A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not solely consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution. A person is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States if the person provides to the law enforcement officer or agency any of the following:

1. A valid Arizona driver license.
2. A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.
3. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
4. If the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance, any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification.

I also suggest reading:
http://www.keytlaw.com/blog/2010/04/anti-illegal-immigration-law-part-1/
 
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Liberalman

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The American federal government has to act fast because if they don’t and the state of Arizona starts doing the job it is one stepping stone from breaking away from America and becoming an independent country.
 

YukonJack

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When a family is abandoned by a reckless, drunkard, drug-addict and gambling father, it is usually a responsible older brother or sister who steps up and provides food and protection for the family, where the father neglected to do his duty.

The federal government is just such a 'father'.

Arizona is the responsible one here.
 

SirJosephPorter

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The American federal government has to act fast because if they don’t and the state of Arizona starts doing the job it is one stepping stone from breaking away from America and becoming an independent country.

Arizona become an independent country? Get real, it won't survive a year on its own. Besides, there isn't that much separatist sentiment in USA, as there is in Canada. Some states like Texas may talk of separation (since they have a black president), but I don't expect it to come to anything.
 
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CDNBear

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Some states like Texas may talk of separation (since they have a black president), but I don't expect it to come to anything.
What a load of crap. Texas has been grumbling about independence for decades. Long before there was a black president.
 
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SirJosephPorter

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Before making it a partisan issue like a poster keeps doing ...I would suggest reading the law ....here is an excerpt...


I also suggest that if further reading:
http://www.keytlaw.com/blog/2010/04/anti-illegal-immigration-law-part-1/

All that is very well, but the question remains, who are they going to pull over? Does anybody seriously think that they will pull over even one white person? Those questioned about their papers will be exclusively brown skinned persons.

Most will be Hispanics, but I can imagine immigrants from South American countries such as Peru, Guatemala, or even from Indian subcontinent (they do look somewhat like Mexicans) being harassed about papers.

While the law does not mention race, the intent is purely racist.
 
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Liberalman

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All that is very well, but the question remains, who are they going to pull over? Does anybody seriously think that they will pull over even one white person? Those questioned about their papers will be exclusively brown skinned persons.

Most will be Hispanics, but I can imagine immigrants from South American countries such as Peru, Guatemala, or even from Indian subcontinent (they do look somewhat like Mexicans) being harassed about papers.

While the law does not mention race, the intent is purely racist.

That's the nature of the beast.

The illegal immigration problem is taking away jobs and putting strain on the social services.

In America 10 million people are there and more are entering and they are all breaking the laws by being there.

If police have to ask for ID until the problem is solved then that is what has to happen.

Once the problem is solved then it goes back to normal
 

YukonJack

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Those who cry that the sky is falling should remember that America (which the last time I looked includes Arizona) belongs to Americans. Those who entered America LEGALLY are welcome there. Those who sneaked in under the cover of night, aided by drug-runners and terrorists ARE NOT!

Historical evidence is that illegal criminals (if you are illegal, you are criminal, by definition) are NOT blond and white. In law precedence is often quoted as a guiding factor. Except, of course, when it is not politically correct, in other words, sensible.

While the opponents of this law accuse others of racism, it is clear that real racists are the ones who want America to fail, to be handed over to the New Reconquistas, and turn 230+ years of freedom, progress, wealth and justice into another Mexico.
 

SirJosephPorter

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That's the nature of the beast.

The illegal immigration problem is taking away jobs and putting strain on the social services.

In America 10 million people are there and more are entering and they are all breaking the laws by being there.

If police have to ask for ID until the problem is solved then that is what has to happen.

Once the problem is solved then it goes back to normal
The solution is worse than the disease. You don't solve the problem of illegal immigration by building racism into the law of the land, by passing racist laws. Regardless of whether it will solve the illegal immigration problem (and it is not obvious that it will), it will do lasting, permanent damage to race relations in Arizona (and in USA, if they federally adopt such a law).
 

SirJosephPorter

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Well, in a word, no. The INTENT is to curb illegal immigration.
The application of it may border on racism, but the intent is not.

The intent is most certainly racist. Let us see the implications of the law. Suppose a brown person (by brown, I mean brown skinned person from any country, whether Mexico, Guatemala, India or Pakistan) is pulled over for speeding. The cop asks him for citizenship proof. If he cannot produce it, he will be thrown into jail.

Or a cop is writing an illegal parking ticket. As he is writing the ticket, the driver returns, he happens to be brown. Cop demands citizenship proof. If the brown person cannot produce it, he will be thrown into jail.

What the upshot is that a brown person (Mexican, Indian, both Native Indian and from India, Pakistani, from South America etc.) has to carry his papers with him all the time (immigration documents, birth certificate, passport etc.) or he risks being put in jail.

The white people have no such fear. If they wanted to make the law race neutral, the law would have stated that if pulled over for suspicion of a crime, the police will have to check the citizenship status of everybody pulled over, no exceptions. This would included whites, blacks, browns everybody.

But then whites will also have to carry citizenship proof with them all the time (birth certificate, passport etc.). That will inconvenience the white majority, we can’t have that.

The law was crafted in such a way that only the brown people will be harassed by the police. Indeed, chances are on that grounds alone it may be overturned by the courts, forget about the merit of the law. On its face, the law is plainly racist, it is meant to harass only the brown citizens of Arizona, both legal and illegal.

It is no wonder even so many people are opposed to the law.
 
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YukonJack

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I spent several Winters (at least parts therof) in Green Valley, Arizona.

I can say with at least as much authority on the subject as SirJosephPorter, that LEGAL immigrants from Mexico are just as much against ILLEGAL immigration as other Americans.
 
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SirJosephPorter

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Indeed, implication of the law are staggering. Suppose police pull over a van for speeding. Looking inside he sees three white passengers, two Hispanic. Of course he is not going to suspect the whites of being there illegally; he will ask the two Hispanics to get out of the car. He will search them, demand proof of citizenship or immigration s status. If they cannot produce the green card, passport etc., he will carry them off to jail, leaving only the whites to continue their journey.

Browns will become second class citizens in every sense of the word. Indeed, after repeated questioning, the governor or any of the police could not exactly say how the law will be applied. The answer is that it will be applied exactly as I describe it, the governor knows it, but doesn’t want to admit it.
 

SirJosephPorter

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I spent several Winters (at least parts therof) in Green Valley, Arizona.

I can say with at least as much authority on the subject as SirJosephPorter, that LEGAL immigrants from Mexico are just as much against ILLEGAL immigration as other Americans.

Really? Then why are so many opposed to the law?

Why are Hispanics up in arm all over USA about it? How come we haven't seen an outpouring of support for the law from Arizona Hispanics?

Where are the rallies, marches by Arizona Hispanics thanking the governor for passing the law? Do you have any polls which show that Arizona Hispanics support the law?

Personally I would be very surprised if Arizona Hispanics support the law. Under the law, they are going to be harassed, same as the illegal immigrants. Under the law, the legal browns will have to carry their citizenship papers with them all the time, or risk going to jail.
 
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YukonJack

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SirJosephPorter, you seem to be absolutely certain of the future, at least regarding how the recently enacted Arizona law will be enforced.

Would you mind - since you consider yourself infallible predicting the future - give me the numbers that WILL BE drawn on the next 649 Lottery.

And if you find it in your heart, the numbers for the next Powerball.
 

TenPenny

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The intent is most certainly racist. Let us see the implications of the law.

Unclear on the concept of 'intent' and 'implications', you have just proved yourself wrong. Your whole post discusses the implications and application of the law, not the intent. You have skipped the intent completely.

The INTENT of the law is to curb illegal immigration.
The INTENT of the law is not to 'annoy people with brown skin'.

So prove to me that you're right: tell me what the INTENT of this law is.
 
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SirJosephPorter

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SirJosephPorter, you seem to be absolutely certain of the future, at least regarding how the recently enacted Arizona law will be enforced.

Would you mind - since you consider yourself infallible predicting the future - give me the numbers that WILL BE drawn on the next 649 Lottery.

And if you find it in your heart, the numbers for the next Powerball.


One doesn’t have to be clairvoyant to see how this is going to work in practice, YJ. The law clearly states that if police pull somebody over on suspicion of a crime, they have the discretion to check their citizenship status. Do you seriously believe that the police are going to ask even one white person to prove his/her status?

The law is plainly meant to harass the brown citizens. Indeed, that is why there so much uproar about it. You may be sure there is something seriously wrong with it.
 
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SirJosephPorter

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Unclear on the concept of 'intent' and 'implications', you have just proved yourself wrong. Your whole post discusses the implications and application of the law, not the intent. You have skipped the intent completely.

The INTENT of the law is to curb illegal immigration.
The INTENT of the law is not to 'annoy people with brown skin'.

I know, you're always right, and you're never wrong.
So prove to me that you're right: tell me what the INTENT of this law is.


And just how do you know the intent? To really find out the intent, we have to read the minds of the lawmakers, an impossible task. I wouldn’t take their word for anything as to what they say the intent is.

Considering that Arizona has a well documented history of racism, as evidenced during its refusal to make MLK birthday a holiday, it is at least as likely that the intent is to harass the brown people as it is to curb illegal immigration.

Intent is something we can never determine with absolute certainty. My opinion is that the racist lawmakers gleefully jumped on the anti-immigration bandwagon and passed the most racist law they could think of. I have already indicated how they could have made the law non racist, race neutral (have police check the papers of everybody, white, black or brown).